Spanking Kids in Kansas

[factseeker88]

A new bill proposed by a Democrat State Legislator would allow kids to be more harshly spanked in Kansas schools. The bill would protect school employees who struck kids hard enough to cause redness or discoloration. Apparently, discoloration means bruising. >>

I've got a better idea, spank the parents for not including them in their lives. Children are born with a blank slate and what their parents do or don't do can scar the child the rest of his life

 

[psychoslice]

 

[Alceste]

That's the claim, still waiting on the evidence.

 

[psychoslice]

The evidence is all around you, just open your eye's.

 

[Sunstone]

The evidence is all around you, just open your eye's.

"The evidence is all around you, open your eyes" <------------ the last refuge of BS.

 

[psychoslice]

"The evidence is all around you, open your eyes" <------------ the last refuge of BS.

So what's your evidence ?.

 

[Alceste]

The evidence is all around you, just open your eye's.

What I observed growing up was that the hellraisers I knew were generally the kids with abusive parents. The kids with gentle parents were generally gentle.

I've continued to note this connection through two decades as a nanny and teacher, as have all the other teachers in my family.

There may be children on this earth that you can smack obedience into, but it does not seem to be the norm. Why not just go with what we know works?

 

[Sunstone]

So what's your evidence ?.

Google and you shall receive. There are several studies -- some mentioned in this thread, I recall -- that indicate spanking has a number of negative consequences on children. There is even some evidence it lowers IQs. But it also promotes delinquency and criminal behaviors, contra your unsubstantiated claim it doesn't. Perhaps you should start with this article.

 

[Alceste]

Funny thing about this picture is that I would bet money that any of those kids in the bottom picture, if they were in this thread, would be defending spanking. As in "my parents spanked me, didn't do me any harm..."

 

[Vinayaka]

Funny thing about this picture is that I would bet money that any of those kids in the bottom picture, if they were in this thread, would be defending spanking. As in "my parents spanked me, didn't do me any harm..."

That would be "dint do me no harm."

As a teacher and as a parent, it doesn't work. That's the simple truth, and it's supported by a ton of scientific evidence, as indicated by many here.

Still, it's hard to combat the opposite engrained idea.

 

[psychoslice]

Yea it didn't do me any harm either, my brother who didn't get spanked turned into a rebel and was killed in a car accident when only 16, the rest of us kids who were spanked turned out great.

 

[Sunstone]

The best that science can say in favor of spanking is that if it is done according to certain rigorous conditions -- such as never more than two open hand swats to the butt -- it doesn't appear to be any more ineffective than some other methods of disciplining kids. That seems to me like a very lukewarm endorsement. "Sure, go ahead and spank your kids -- if you follow these seven rules, it will be no worse for the kids than if you had used more civil methods of discipline with them". That's just as rousing of a declaration in favor of spanking as you'll get from science.

 

[Alceste]

That would be "dint do me no harm."

As a teacher and as a parent, it doesn't work. That's the simple truth, and it's supported by a ton of scientific evidence, as indicated by many here.

Still, it's hard to combat the opposite engrained idea.

It's actually very easy to combat, given that all the available evidence indicates small humans respond best to the same stimuli as large humans: incentives for good behavior, loss of privileges for bad.

What's hard is getting people to look at that evidence when they really, really want to smack kids around.

 

[Alceste]

Yea it didn't do me any harm either, my brother who didn't get spanked turned into a rebel and was killed in a car accident when only 16, the rest of us kids who were spanked turned out great.

I didn't die in a car accident. But a sample group of one is too small to draw conclusions from, so I don't bother using that detail in my arguments.

 

[Thana]

Am I reading this correctly? In an ideal world you would promote physical violence against children? Can you explain to me how to draw the line between your ideal world of spanking with a wooden spoon and child abuse? I'm failing to see the difference.



Personal decision for whom? I'm sure your kid has a say in whether you smack him or not?

A wooden spoon? As if your own hand isn't bad enough? Seriously, what is wrong with people who think using weapons on their kids is ever a good/acceptable idea?

Child abuse - Hitting their face, Or using a large weapon with the intent to cause serious bodily harm.

A smack on the butt with a wooden spoon is not abuse, It's discipline. Hell, even the teachers in my fathers day would use rulers on naughty school kids. And all the people I know that were born in the 50's are people who never did drugs, or smoked or slept around.
They were disciplined and became well adjusted adults

Yeah, smacking your kids with a kitchen implement? That's abuse. Why not just tell them to stop doing whatever it is you don't want them doing, or give them something else to do? Kids don't need to hate and fear you to want to please you. It's innate.

No, it's not.
I don't understand the delicate sensibilities that come from people who are shocked by physically disciplining children. Corporal punishment was only abolished in the last 15-30 years if that.
Actually, My private school still had the cane when I was going there.

 

[psychoslice]

I didn't die in a car accident. But a sample group of one is too small to draw conclusions from, so I don't bother using that detail in my arguments.

Yes of course thats true, but still what I have seen over the years and others that I have talked to, it does seem that most would like the discipline to come back to the home and the schools, its just what I feel is right.

 

[beenie]

I think it's the opposite. Those kids were likely smacked around.

Child abuse - Hitting their face, Or using a large weapon with the intent to cause serious bodily harm.

A smack on the butt with a wooden spoon is not abuse, It's discipline. Hell, even the teachers in my fathers day would use rulers on naughty school kids. And all the people I know that were born in the 50's are people who never did drugs, or smoked or slept around.
They were disciplined and became well adjusted adults



No, it's not.
I don't understand the delicate sensibilities that come from people who are shocked by physically disciplining children. Corporal punishment was only abolished in the last 15-30 years if that.
Actually, My private school still had the cane when I was going there.

I don't even know where to begin with this. So as long as they get smacked anywhere but on the face, it's ok? Getting swatted in the butt with a cane doesn't cause harm?

Smoking was only restricted in public places in the last decade or so; maybe we should bring hat back too. Just because it was done in the past, doesn't mean it was ever ok.

Schools should never, and I mean EVER, implement corporal punishment on a child.

Ever.

 

[beenie]

I have another question for those who think it's ok to use a cane, wooden spoon, etc.

The claim is that using these "instruments" is ok as long as it doesn't cause harm.

If the true purpose is to simply "discipline" WITHOUT causing bodily harm, when why would you need an "instrument" (weapon) to carry out the punishment? Why not just your hand? I'm not only talking about the schools, which is despicable in and of itself, but a parent? Instruments such as the above-mentioned would only serve to further enhance the sting to the child. That can be its only purpose.

Please try and convince me how these instruments serve another purpose.

 

[Thana]

I don't even know where to begin with this. So as long as they get smacked anywhere but on the face, it's ok? Getting swatted in the butt with a cane doesn't cause harm?

Smoking was only restricted in public places in the last decade or so; maybe we should bring hat back too. Just because it was done in the past, doesn't mean it was ever ok.

Schools should never, and I mean EVER, implement corporal punishment on a child.

Ever.

I think they should. I think it would be fantastic. The public high school I went too.. If the teachers were able to discipline the kids.. It would have been a much better place. Detention is an ineffective and useless punishment. A whap across the knuckles would make it a far better environment, I think they'd actually learn something.

I have another question for those who think it's ok to use a cane, wooden spoon, etc.

The claim is that using these "instruments" is ok as long as it doesn't cause harm.

If the true purpose is to simply "discipline" WITHOUT causing bodily harm, when why would you need an "instrument" (weapon) to carry out the punishment? Why not just your hand? I'm not only talking about the schools, which is despicable in and of itself, but a parent? Instruments such as the above-mentioned would only serve to further enhance the sting to the child. That can be its only purpose.

Please try and convince me how these instruments serve another purpose.

Using a hand isn't as effective and doesn't hurt as much.
With an instrument though, Usually just taking it out or the threat of it is enough after a few uses.

The first time my parents used the belt on me was also the last time. I never acted up after that.

 

[Sunstone]

One side to this debate has come armed with science, the other side to the debate has come armed with personal anecdotes. Quite telling, really.