Spanking Kids in Kansas

[Thana]

One side to this debate has come armed with science, the other side to the debate has come armed with personal anecdotes. Quite telling, really.

Fine.

In a survey completed by the Times Educational supplement (1), 6000 teachers were questioned. One in five believed that class room behaviour had deteriorated since the abolition of corporal punishment and they believed the education system would improve with the re-introduction of corporal punishment.

It is inevitable that bad classroom behaviour will filter into life outside school. You only have to look at the crime statistics to see that crime has increased dramatically since the abolition of corporal punishment. Between 1981, when corporal punishment was legal and in 1997, after the abolition of corporal punishment, there was a 67% increase in crime (1).

There's more if you'd like

 

[psychoslice]

I totally believe what you have shown Thana is true, its sad but true.

 

[Sunstone]

There's more if you'd like

You mean to tell me, Thana, that you yourself are incapable of distinguishing between a poll of teacher's opinions on spanking, and a scientific study of the probable effects of spanking on children? Really?

Why don't you go and find some real science on the subject and quit wasting everyone's time.

 

[Sunstone]

There's more if you'd like

By the way, you didn't provide any link to your sources.

 

[Thana]

You mean to tell me, Thana, that you yourself are incapable of distinguishing between a poll of teacher's opinions on spanking, and a scientific study of the probable effects of spanking on children? Really?

Why don't you go and find some real science on the subject and quit wasting everyone's time.

A scientific study of the probable effects of spanking on children?
I haven't seen that, Is it one of the previous posts?

Regardless.

I think a teachers opinion has a valid contribution to the debate. They are after all, dealing with children on a day to day basis.

 

[psychoslice]

A scientific study of the probable effects of spanking on children?
I haven't seen that, Is it one of the previous posts?

Regardless.

I think a teachers opinion has a valid contribution to the debate. They are after all, dealing with children on a day to day basis.

That is a very good point, people running around in white coats, what on earth would they know about children's behaviour lol, I like science but they don't know everything that's for sure.

 

[Sunstone]

I think a teachers opinion has a valid contribution to the debate. They are after all, dealing with children on a day to day basis.

*Yawn* Even assuming you have a point, the quote you provided (but did not source) says only 20% of teachers think kids have become more unruly since the abolition of corporeal punishment in their schools. That would suggest an overwhelming majority of teachers do not agree that kids have become more unruly. Jeebers! If you're going to cut and paste stuff, Thana, at least cut and paste stuff that supports your side to the argument -- as it is, you just shot yourself in the foot.

 

[Thana]

*Yawn* Even assuming you have a point, the quote you provided (but did not source) says only 20% of teachers think kids have become more unruly since the abolition of corporeal punishment in their schools. That would suggest an overwhelming majority of teachers do not agree that kids have become more unruly. Jeebers! If you're going to cut and paste stuff, Thana, at least cut and paste stuff that supports your side to the argument -- as it is, you just shot yourself in the foot.

You asked for evidence and I provided it. I'm not going to lie, There are a lot of studies that have shown that corporal punishment can be detrimental to children. And a lot of people who personally dislike it.

20 percent is still 20 percent. It may not be the majority, But it's still something to consider.

 

[Sunstone]

A scientific study of the probable effects of spanking on children?
I haven't seen that, Is it one of the previous posts?

Using google is beneath you? Check out this article, then.

... spanking may reduce the brain's grey matter, the connective tissue between brain cells. Grey matter is an integral part of the central nervous system and influences intelligence testing and learning abilities. It includes areas of the brain involved in sensory perception, speech, muscular control, emotions and memory.

Then check out this.

...in a new study published in Pediatrics, researchers at Tulane University provide the strongest evidence yet that children's short-term response to spanking may make them act out more in the long run. Of the nearly 2,500 youngsters in the study, those who were spanked more frequently at age 3 were much more likely to be aggressive by age 5.

Then try this:

Corporal punishment undermines compassion for others, for oneself, and limits the mutual capacity for gaining insight

There's plenty more

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

A smack on the butt with a wooden spoon is not abuse, It's discipline. Hell, even the teachers in my fathers day would use rulers on naughty school kids. And all the people I know that were born in the 50's are people who never did drugs, or smoked or slept around.
They were disciplined and became well adjusted adults

Lol! No, they became hippies or shipped off to Vietnam in the '60s or coked up disco dancers in the '70s and then punk rockers, goths, new wavers, etc. in the '80s. Then when they got old, they became 9-to-5 sellouts.

 

[Sunstone]

Here's a great article for anyone who is not a closed-minded advocate of spanking children.

[R]esearchers from both sides of the debate agree on the following points:

• Babies shouldn’t be spanked.

• Spanking children has been linked with the development of all sorts of behavior problems, including increased aggression and poor emotional regulation. It’s even been linked with slower mental development.

• Spanking children older than 5 or 6 is a bad idea. Research suggests that older kids are especially susceptible to the negative effects of spanking. They are more likely to become antisocial or distressed. They are also more likely to develop negative relationships with their parents.

• Severity, frequency, and emotional contexts matter. Studies report worse outcomes for kids who are spanked regularly or who are spanked with objects. Some research suggests that spankings are more detrimental when parents are angry, cold, or insensitive.

• Spanking isn't more effective than non-physical punishments that include reasoning. The most recent analyses of published research suggest that spanking--even the most restrained and careful use of spanking-- is no more effective than disciplinary tactics that combine non-physical punishments with reasoning. When spanking is used as the primary disciplinary method, it is clearly less effective than the alternatives.

And what about spanking -- or other forms of corporal punishment -- administered in a school setting? While virtually all the published studies on spanking concern punishment at home, research suggests that harsh physical discipline makes students distrust authority.

Moreover, there is evidence that public shaming makes people feel angry...and unrepentant.

 

[Alceste]

Child abuse - Hitting their face, Or using a large weapon with the intent to cause serious bodily harm.

A smack on the butt with a wooden spoon is not abuse, It's discipline. Hell, even the teachers in my fathers day would use rulers on naughty school kids. And all the people I know that were born in the 50's are people who never did drugs, or smoked or slept around.
They were disciplined and became well adjusted adults



No, it's not.
I don't understand the delicate sensibilities that come from people who are shocked by physically disciplining children. Corporal punishment was only abolished in the last 15-30 years if that.
Actually, My private school still had the cane when I was going there.

It doesn't shock me. I'm well aware that many people really, really want to smack kids. I just think such people are abusive.

Really, I've been living on this planet for almost four decades, refusing to avert my eyes from the ugliness in the world from the start. Do you really think I find spankings shocking?

Lol.

 

[beenie]

I think they should. I think it would be fantastic. The public high school I went too.. If the teachers were able to discipline the kids.. It would have been a much better place. Detention is an ineffective and useless punishment. A whap across the knuckles would make it a far better environment, I think they'd actually learn something.



Using a hand isn't as effective and doesn't hurt as much.
With an instrument though, Usually just taking it out or the threat of it is enough after a few uses.

The first time my parents used the belt on me was also the last time. I never acted up after that.

I honestly cannot tell if you're being serious now or if you're just upping the ante a little.

If your parents used a belt on you, then you are a victim of child abuse. There is absolutely no justification for inflicting pain on a child, and the fact that you think it's ok to use weapons in order to make it "hurt more" is incredibly disturbing.

As for the "evidence" provided by teachers? Please. Let's go ask a whole slew of NRA activists about gun control. I'm sure we would get reliable, unbiased opinions from them, too.

 

[Sunstone]

20 percent is still 20 percent. It may not be the majority, But it's still something to consider.

Not really.

 

[Thana]

I honestly cannot tell if you're being serious now or if you're just upping the ante a little.

If your parents used a belt on you, then you are a victim of child abuse. There is absolutely no justification for inflicting pain on a child, and the fact that you think it's ok to use weapons in order to make it "hurt more" is incredibly disturbing.

My parents were also foster carers.
If you want to know about real child abuse, I can tell you all about it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

A huge collection of research that shows how harmful corporal punishment of children is: RESEARCH AND INFORMED EXPERT OPINION

 

[Alceste]

Here's a great article for anyone who is not a closed-minded advocate of spanking children.

Reviewing those points, I have concluded it's a pity so few human beings are comfortable using their capacity for reason. Maybe for those who are not able to reason or communicate their thoughts, physical force is the only option. Heck, that's how most of the other primates do it. At least we don't murder and eat children, like chimpanzees. I'll take comfort in that distinction.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

At least we don't murder and eat children, like chimpanzees.

Some people do...

 

[Alceste]

I honestly cannot tell if you're being serious now or if you're just upping the ante a little.

If your parents used a belt on you, then you are a victim of child abuse. There is absolutely no justification for inflicting pain on a child, and the fact that you think it's ok to use weapons in order to make it "hurt more" is incredibly disturbing.

As for the "evidence" provided by teachers? Please. Let's go ask a whole slew of NRA activists about gun control. I'm sure we would get reliable, unbiased opinions from them, too.

Teachers in my country generally don't advocate child abuse as a form of discipline. I think that is more predominant in cultures where abuse is so rampant that most teachers were abused as children, and therefore subscribe to the doctrine of "dint do me no harm...". They beat their children to honour their parents.

My friend in school had a mother who used to chase her around the house with a wooden spoon. We thought it was funny, we'd run into her room and sit against the door so her mum couldn't get her, and we'd laugh hysterically. I was a bit shocked when I opened a kitchen drawer in her house to find it full of broken wooden spoons. Also, although her Dad was hardly ever around, he was all about the belt.

When my friend went to visit her relatives in Trinidad, the rampant child abuse she witnessed there really got under her skin, to the extent she has little desire to ever go back. As it turns out, her parents were pretty gentle compared to the rest of her family.

She doesn't hit her own daughter with any weapons or chase her around the house like a lunatic, but I still heard her threatening to spank her long past the age she could have just had a Serious Conversation.

I expect her daughter will tone down the abuse another notch with her own kids. The culture in my country does not promote or tolerate violence against children (or anyone, really), but apparently it still takes a few generations to wear off.

 

[psychoslice]

Some people do...

mmmm, yummy lol.