Spanking Kids in Kansas

[Saint Frankenstein]

I just don't know where you get off with that kind of judgement. If it were abuse, As I have stated before, It would be illegal, And DOCS would take children from their parents. But they don't and it isn't because for the millionth time, It is not abuse.

Where do you get the idea that law is the measurement of ethics in a society? It's perfectly legal in America for parents to mutilate their son's genitals without his consent (routine infant circumcision) because they feel like it, but that doesn't make it ethical, either. America is behind the curve when it comes to treating children like human beings. Northern Europe is ahead of the curve on that topic, as well as others.

 

[methylatedghosts]

In my experience, words are so effective by themselves that I don't need to be violent to teach something. Hell, I haven't even needed to use a time out!

All I can see violence really teaching is that it is ok to hit others, to hurt others when you are angry, or upset, our frustrated. God forbid you experience a negative emotion. It truly surprises me that there are people in this day and age who still can't see a simple truth like that. Maybe those people are emotionally stunted in some way, I don't know. Maybe I'm a special case in that I'm able to read a child's emotions and work with them rather than resorting to something so crude as violence.

 

[Thana]

Where do you get the idea that law is the measurement of ethics in a society? It's perfectly legal in America for parents to mutilate their son's genitals without his consent (routine infant circumcision) because they feel like it, but that doesn't make it ethical, either. America is behind the curve when it comes to treating children like human beings. Northern Europe is ahead of the curve on that topic, as well as others.

I'm talking about what is abuse and what is not. The Law clearly states what is considered abuse. Morals have nothing to do with my point.

And when did circumcision become mutilation?

I... just really don't understand some people

 

[Alceste]

In my experience, words are so effective by themselves that I don't need to be violent to teach something. Hell, I haven't even needed to use a time out!

All I can see violence really teaching is that it is ok to hit others, to hurt others when you are angry, or upset, our frustrated. God forbid you experience a negative emotion. It truly surprises me that there are people in this day and age who still can't see a simple truth like that. Maybe those people are emotionally stunted in some way, I don't know. Maybe I'm a special case in that I'm able to read a child's emotions and work with them rather than resorting to something so crude as violence.

People fail to see it because recognizing corporal punishment as abusive behavior requires the abuse advocate to recognize that they were also abused. Few people have any inclination to revisit what a whipping from an adult felt like when they were small and helpless. The fact that we tend to love our parents and want to think of them in the best possible light also doesn't help.

 

[Drolefille]

The Ferber method (cry it out in longer intervals) is still a popular method of parenting here in the states. Neurologists are divided on if the practice is overall detrimental from what I've read.

Me? Never did it. Kiddos slept with us until they didn't want to anymore. They have bedtime routines without fuss or fury. They have always slept super good. I count one single nightmare in all our four kids in my personal 16+ years of parenting.

The worry of spoiling kids is a myth. I say crying it out is for convenience. Not necessity.

The general opinion appears to be leaning against it if for no other reason than Attachment Theory is HUGE right now - and not just in parenting. I find it applicable to adults too! And then of course there's the extremes on either end of it.

I think the cry it out method takes the idea that kids are manipulative - which they can be, but aren't always - and decides to teach them from infancy that it doesn't work. I've never found any all or nothing technique to work in anything else, I don't think that parenting is unique in that aspect. And since all babies can do to communicate is cry, it seems misguided to me.

 

[methylatedghosts]

The second someone says they're smacking their kids, You think you have the right to judge and abuse them for just trying to do what they think is best as parents. It's awful and just really superficial. I cannot even muster up a tiny amount of respect for you or your argument.

The second someone tells me they hit their kids is the self same second my child is not allowed inside their door unsupervised by me or her mother. Kids will act up in someone else's house, and if they think they can hit their own kids, what's stopping them from believing they can do the same to mine?

 

[Vinayaka]

We're still in this 'transition' phase. It will be awhile yet, I'm afraid. But if you look at the history of countries banning corporal punishment, or schools banning it, the transition basically started near the end of the 60s, although there were many individuals who were more progressive before then.

Heck, when I started teaching (1978) the strap was still used. I used it myself on the recommendation of the principal. it didn't work, but yeah, I used it. Then slowly, in the province where I taught, some school districts banned it, and others followed. it happened fairly fast, about 10 years I guess, from no bans, to a total ban.

Social change does take time, but personally, I'd sure like to see this one happen faster. Violence in the home is still a significant problem.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm talking about what is abuse and what is not. The Law clearly states what is considered abuse. Morals have nothing to do with my point.

Law does not decide what is abuse and what isn't. Ethics does. Sometimes what is lawful and what is ethical are two different things.

And when did circumcision become mutilation?

Since always, but that's another topic. It was just an example of how many cultures disregard the rights of children, even to bodily integrity, so we shouldn't be surprised if the same culture lets parents smack their kids around. It's all about viewing children not as full-fledged human beings, but as property. It's obvious that such cultures view children as lesser than adults because it's illegal to smack an adult around (assault and battery).

 

[Thana]

The second someone tells me they hit their kids is the self same second my child is not allowed inside their door unsupervised by me or her mother. Kids will act up in someone else's house, and if they think they can hit their own kids, what's stopping them from believing they can do the same to mine?

Because that's imposing your beliefs.

I'd never smack another persons child, Because it's not my right. It's a parents right to choose how they raise their children. I'm not even sure I'd feel comfortable using any sort of discipline on another persons child (Like sending them to their room) atleast not without the parents consent.

Law does not decide what is abuse and what isn't. Ethics does. Sometimes what is lawful and what is ethical are two different things.

Since always, but that's another topic. It was just an example of how many cultures disregard the rights of children, even to bodily integrity, so we shouldn't be surprised if the same culture lets parents smack their kids around. It's all about viewing children not as full-fledged human beings, but as property. It's obvious that such cultures view children as lesser than adults because it's illegal to smack an adult around (assault and battery).

Law does decide what is abuse and what is not. Lol.

I wouldn't say children are worth less than adults, Just different. They have different needs and they need to be treated differently.

 

[methylatedghosts]

They have always slept super good.

Do they grammar super good too?

(sorry, couldn't resist)

 

[Alceste]

I'm talking about what is abuse and what is not. The Law clearly states what is considered abuse. Morals have nothing to do with my point.

And when did circumcision become mutilation?

I... just really don't understand some people

It's not illegal to lie to a guy and tell him you're pregnant just to see what he'll say. It's not illegal to yell at another driver, flip him the bird and call him a ****. It's not illegal to stiff your waitress for a tip and leave get a note saying you didn't leave a tip because she's a lesbian. It's not illegal to tell your four year old daughter she's too fat, or to tart her up like a hooker and parade her around in beauty contests.

Lots of things on the spectrum of abusive behavior are perfectly legal. Do you advocate all of them, or just violence toward children?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Law does decide what is abuse and what is not. Lol.

All law does is make it illegal or not. But it doesn't decide the ethics of something.

I wouldn't say children are worth less than adults, Just different. They have different needs and they need to be treated differently.

If children aren't less than adults, then why support violence against one and not the other? Why are adults so deserving of being protected against violence, but little children, who are defenseless, aren't? What kind of logic is that?

 

[methylatedghosts]

Because that's imposing your beliefs.

I'd never smack another persons child, Because it's not my right. It's a parents right to choose how they raise their children. I'm not even sure I'd feel comfortable using any sort of discipline on another persons child (Like sending them to their room) atleast not without the parents consent.

So when someone else's child acts up at your place, what do you do?

 

[Thana]

So when someone else's child acts up at your place, what do you do?

Well, The only person I know that has kids is my sister. And usually I tell my neices not to do something, And if they ignore me (which they usually do), I tell my sister. Since I don't feel comfortable disciplining her kids.

She actually has a wooden spoon aswell, But she rarely uses it, Just threatens too.

Lots of things on the spectrum of abusive behavior are perfectly legal. Do you advocate all of them, or just violence toward children?

Psychological abuse and physical abuse are two different arenas.

What is considered physical abuse is exactly what the law states.

And no, Of course I don't advocate psychological abuse.

 

[Alceste]

Well, The only person I know that has kids is my sister. And usually I tell my neices not to do something, And if they ignore me (which they usually do), I tell my sister. Since I don't feel comfortable disciplining her kids.

She actually has a wooden spoon aswell, But she rarely uses it, Just threatens too.

I thought my friend's mum mostly only threatened her with the spoon too until I discovered the drawer full of broken wooden spoons.

Perhaps people don't try as hard to beat their children when there are witnesses around.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Do they grammar super good too?

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Of course they didded. And I teached them. :yes:

 

[Thana]

If children aren't less than adults, then why support violence against one and not the other? Why are adults so deserving of being protected against violence, but little children, who are defenseless, aren't? What kind of logic is that?

Like I said, Children are different and have different needs.

I thought my friend's mum mostly only threatened her with the spoon too until I discovered the drawer full of broken wooden spoons.

Perhaps people don't try as hard to beat their children when there are witnesses around.

Nope. My sister doesn't abuse her kids, And she's not ashamed of what she does.

 

[Alceste]

Well, The only person I know that has kids is my sister. And usually I tell my neices not to do something, And if they ignore me (which they usually do), I tell my sister. Since I don't feel comfortable disciplining her kids.

She actually has a wooden spoon aswell, But she rarely uses it, Just threatens too.



Psychological abuse and physical abuse are two different arenas.

What is considered physical abuse is exactly what the law states.

And no, Of course I don't advocate psychological abuse.

Any reason for making that impassable barrier between physical and psychological abuse, or did you just think it would be very convenient for you right now if such a barrier existed?

FYI, some forms of psychological abuse are illegal. For example, lying to your boyfriend about being pregnant is not illegal, but doing so for monetary gain is fraud.

 

[Vinayaka]

Since when does anyone need to get hit?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Like I said, Children are different and have different needs.

Kids have a need for violence to be inflicted on them? :areyoucra