Spanking Kids in Kansas

[MysticSang'ha]

The general opinion appears to be leaning against it if for no other reason than Attachment Theory is HUGE right now - and not just in parenting. I find it applicable to adults too! And then of course there's the extremes on either end of it.

I think the cry it out method takes the idea that kids are manipulative - which they can be, but aren't always - and decides to teach them from infancy that it doesn't work. I've never found any all or nothing technique to work in anything else, I don't think that parenting is unique in that aspect. And since all babies can do to communicate is cry, it seems misguided to me.

I tend to lean in that direction, too. But if I were to dare to label myself any kind of parent, I'd call myself a Continuum parent based on the stories told by Jean Liedloff. I used to read a lot of Dr. Sears before he was ever asked to be a leading contributor to parenting magazines. So, it's weird to see attachment parenting gaining this much ground.

And in regards to Ferberizing babies and toddlers, I see the method as taking the perspective that a baby's cry is perceived as a disciplinary problem, rather than a biological response cue. Cooing, giggling, and crying are pretty much the only ways a baby can vocalize in communication. Others are obviously shaking the arms and legs and rooting with the mouth. But I find the idea of a baby's cry as a form of manipulation as giving too much credit to the baby's mental development and awareness.

 

[Thana]

Any reason for making that impassable barrier between physical and psychological abuse, or did you just think it would be very convenient for you right now if such a barrier existed?

FYI, some forms of psychological abuse are illegal. For example, lying to your boyfriend about being pregnant is not illegal, but doing so for monetary gain is fraud.

I'm sorry, Are you now trying to say that telling your kid she's stupid is the same as punching her in the face?

Well Jeez, Let's just throw out everything we know about everything and base everything off what you say.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I'm sorry, Are you now trying to say that telling your kid she's stupid is the same as punching her in the face?

Well Jeez, Let's just throw out everything we know about everything and base everything off what you say.

I don't see her as advocating such. In all fairness, the word "abuse" is emotionally charged like the word "rape." There's a rather mythical villainous vibe to the word, and people tend to create a mental archetype of a person who would embody what "abusive" looks and acts like. But what I get from her argument is that there are shades of grey in needlessly causing suffering in another human.

 

[Thana]

Kids have a need for violence to be inflicted on them? :areyoucra

No. I never said they need it.

 

[Alceste]

I don't see her as advocating such. In all fairness, the word "abuse" is emotionally charged like the word "rape." There's a rather mythical villainous vibe to the word, and people tend to create a mental archetype of a person who would embody what "abusive" looks and acts like. But what I get from her argument is that there are shades of grey in needlessly causing suffering in another human.

Exactly right. Abusive behavior is a very broad spectrum with snarky comments at one end and murder at the other - hitting your kids is somewhere in the middle, but more toward snark than murder, obviously. I personally don't find the word "abusive" emotionally charged. I find it is simply an accurate word to describe any behavior that is intended to cause unjust suffering to others. What other word could I use for that category of behavior?

 

[Thana]

If you want to call it abuse, That's your prerogative.

If you want to lump a smack on the bottom to prevent/repremand a child for putting themselves in a dangerous situation in the same category as locking your child in their room for days without food and water, Or whipping their backs bloody with an electrical cord. Then thats your prerogative.

I wish you and your warped priorites/morals well.

I will do what I think is best for my future hypothetical kids.

 

[Drolefille]

But I find the idea of a baby's cry as a form of manipulation as giving too much credit to the baby's mental development and awareness.

I agree. I think people see the manipulation that toddlers exhibit (and I don't mean the term in a bad way, it's part of them learning to have effects on their environment) and apply it to an infant's crying in a way that is entirely developmentally inappropriate.

 

[Mister_T]

I don't think any teachers should be allowed to spank children in schools, but if people are lumping parents spanking their own children with physical child abuse, that is really quite a stretch.

 

[Alceste]

If you want to call it abuse, That's your prerogative.

If you want to lump a smack on the bottom to prevent/repremand a child for putting themselves in a dangerous situation in the same category as locking your child in their room for days without food and water, Or whipping their backs bloody with an electrical cord. Then thats your prerogative.

I wish you and your warped priorites/morals well.

I will do what I think is best for my future hypothetical kids.

You're planning, years in advance of them even existing, to smack the tar out of your own children with blunt object for transgressions as minor and random as talking to strangers, and you think I'm the one with warped priorities?

Please do your future kids a favour and read more about that study you presented as your only supporting evidence before you bring them into the world. It will give you some more reasonable boundaries for the type of physical discipline that is least likely to cause psychological problems later in life.

For example:

ONLY with an open hand, NEVER with an object.

ONLY a light disciplinary smack to assert your authority, NEVER with the intention to inflict physical pain.

ONLY swat children aged five and under.

ONLY use corporal punishment after all other non-violent disciplinary methods (like time out) have failed.

 

[Alceste]

I don't think any teachers should be allowed to spank children in schools, but if people are lumping parents spanking their own children with physical child abuse, that is really quite a stretch.

No, it's completely rational, if abusive behavior is a spectrum of actions intended to unjustly cause others to suffer, with unkind comments at one end and murder at the other.

It's actually the only rational definition of abuse thus far presented, since it does not grant special, random exceptions to arbitrary groups of people or require constructing arbitrary theoretical boundaries to justify why hitting adults is wrong but hitting children is great.

 

[beenie]

The Ferber method (cry it out in longer intervals) is still a popular method of parenting here in the states. Neurologists are divided on if the practice is overall detrimental from what I've read.

Me? Never did it. Kiddos slept with us until they didn't want to anymore. They have bedtime routines without fuss or fury. They have always slept super good. I count one single nightmare in all our four kids in my personal 16+ years of parenting.

The worry of spoiling kids is a myth. I say crying it out is for convenience. Not necessity.

Completely agree, and there really is no way of spoiling a child with love and constructive/positive discipline. My kids also slept with us and had/have absolutely no sleep issues. Mine sleep "super good" too.

 

[Thana]

You're planning, years in advance of them even existing, to smack the tar out of your own children with blunt object for transgressions as minor and random as talking to strangers, and you think I'm the one with warped priorities?

Please do your future kids a favour and read more about that study you presented as your only supporting evidence before you bring them into the world. It will give you some more reasonable boundaries for the type of physical discipline that is least likely to cause psychological problems later in life.

Far out, You're trying really hard to make me out as a bad person.

I'm not planning anything, This is simply my stance on the subject.

It's not going to be random, Nor is it going to be anything remotely like 'smacking the tar out of them' and I already said it won't be for minor things. It will be for things I think are dangerous or harmful to my kids.

And yes, I think stranger danger is very serious and I will take it seriously, And I think you should too.

 

[Alceste]

Far out, You're trying really hard to make me out as a bad person.

I'm not planning anything, This is simply my stance on the subject.

It's not going to be random, Nor is it going to be anything remotely like 'smacking the tar out of them' and I already said it won't be for minor things. It will be for things I think are dangerous or harmful to my kids.

And yes, I think stranger danger is very serious and I will take it seriously, And I think you should too.

In my country, we EXPLAIN to kids what is or isn't appropriate behavior with strangers. We don't just randomly thump them with blunt objects out of the blue for behavior we perceive to be risky.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Far out, You're trying really hard to make me out as a bad person.

I'm not planning anything, This is simply my stance on the subject.

It's not going to be random, Nor is it going to be anything remotely like 'smacking the tar out of them' and I already said it won't be for minor things. It will be for things I think are dangerous or harmful to my kids.

And yes, I think stranger danger is very serious and I will take it seriously, And I think you should too.

Some strangers are far less dangerous to kids than violent parents.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Far out, You're trying really hard to make me out as a bad person.

I'm not planning anything, This is simply my stance on the subject.

It's not going to be random, Nor is it going to be anything remotely like 'smacking the tar out of them' and I already said it won't be for minor things. It will be for things I think are dangerous or harmful to my kids.

And yes, I think stranger danger is very serious and I will take it seriously, And I think you should too.

"Stranger danger" is overblown. Kids are more likely to be kidnapped and harmed by people they know. It hasn't helped anything at all. It just breeds fear and mistrust, making things worse.

 

[Thana]

In my country, we EXPLAIN to kids what is or isn't appropriate behavior with strangers. We don't just randomly thump them with blunt objects out of the blue for behavior we perceive to be risky.

I've already explained, multiple times, That is not how I'm going to handle it.

Your argument and your debating tatics are starting to deteriorate. Perhaps you should think about it and come back when you're ready to bring something constructive to the table.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

"Stranger danger" is overblown. Kids are more likely to be kidnapped and harmed by people they know. It hasn't helped anything at all. It just breeds fear and mistrust, making things worse.

Wait, you mean American society and the media have overblown a perceived danger to a ridiculous level causing people to be irrationally paranoid and anxious about something which, statistically, has almost no chance of happening to you?

That would be a first.

 

[Alceste]

"Stranger danger" is overblown. Kids are more likely to be kidnapped and harmed by people they know. It hasn't helped anything at all. It just breeds fear and mistrust, making things worse.

Exactly. The VAST majority of child abuse happens in the home and is carried out by adults in a position of trust.

 

[Thana]

"Stranger danger" is overblown. Kids are more likely to be kidnapped and harmed by people they know. It hasn't helped anything at all. It just breeds fear and mistrust, making things worse.

Perhaps, I don't know the statistics.
But I don't, personally, feel comfortable allowing my (hypothetical) kids or my neices around strangers without me or someone I trust with them.

 

[beenie]

Why can't the stranger talk be discussed rather than smacking them?