Spanking Kids in Kansas

[Mister_T]

But as a person who doesn't hit anyone, ever, except in self defense, I don't really feel the need to get into a lot of detail about whether a spoon is worse than a hand. It's splitting hairs, IMO.

Well, my intention wasn't to imply one was worse than the other. It was to see whether or not you still labeled all physical acts of spanking as "beatings" or if you were selective about such labels. As for splitting hairs with the wooden spoon, I wasn't the one who even brought up Thana and the spoon. You seemed to imply what she was talking about ("beating" her kids with a wooden spoon) was much worse than what I was talking about.

Is it worse to steal a car than to steal a candy bar? Sure, but those who don't steal don't need to spend a lot of time contemplating the difference.

Only when you steal a candy bar or a car, the intent on both is to take something without paying for it. Where as spanking someone is discipline for a child you care deeply about, and beating someone is intended for malicious injury or harm. Putting the two under the same umbrella so it is simplified and a black and white issue with no grey area, is being disingenuous at best, IMO.

 

[Alceste]

But, Alceste....what if they don't like you and want your approval? What if they tell all the other kids not to like you or want your approval? What if they start beating up other kids who like you and want your approval? What are you going to do then? Huh? HUH?

Yeah, no answer....I thought so. Kids need to be spanked. And you admitting that you won't do it means you suck as a caregiver. Game. Set. Match. I win.

[/sarcasm]

Well, I suppose IF they didn't always respond pretty much as expected to the most reasonable and effective methods of behavior modification we know of, I'd just have no choice but to smack them around some, just like I do with anyone or anything that ****** me off. /reciprocal sarcasm.

 

[Father Heathen]

But, Alceste....what if they don't like you and want your approval? What if they tell all the other kids not to like you or want your approval? What if they start beating up other kids who like you and want your approval? What are you going to do then? Huh? HUH?

Yeah, no answer....I thought so. Kids need to be spanked. And you admitting that you won't do it means you suck as a caregiver. Game. Set. Match. I win.

[/sarcasm]

Sarcasm aside, that doesn't remotely resemble anyone's argument here.

 

[Father Heathen]

I don't know what to tell you. Kids have always behaved themselves just fine in my care, without any need for me to inflict pain on them.

I just get the sense they like me and want my approval, so I control them by giving or withholding it.

Be that as it may, what does that have to do with anything? I never implied that spanking was a necessity, only that it's a valid form of discipline when utilized properly. If you find that the only way to counter an opposing viewpoint is by misrepresenting it, then maybe you should take a step back and re-evaluate things.

 

[Mister_T]

Kids need to be spanked. And you admitting that you won't do it means you suck as a caregiver.

Has anyone here suggested that people will always need to spank their kids and spoke negatively about those who choose not to spank their kids? I haven't read the entire thread, but I just see people speaking up against unfair demonization and characterizations.

 

[Alceste]

Sarcasm aside, that doesn't remotely resemble anyone's argument here.

Yes, Thana did. She even openly acknowledged she was trying to stack up so many pointless hypothetical factors that she could find a specific set of circumstances where Heather would finally hit her kids. As someone who just doesn't hit people, I can't tell you how silly that tactic is except by referring you back to Heather's sarcastic post.

 

[Father Heathen]

Has anyone here suggested that people will always need to spank their kids and spoke negatively about those who choose not to spank their kids? I haven't read the entire thread, but I just see people speaking up against unfair demonization and characterizations.

It was said by a man made of both straw and desperation.

 

[Alceste]

Be that as it may, what does that have to do with anything? I never implied that spanking was a necessity, only that it's a valid form of discipline when utilized properly. If you find that the only way to counter an opposing viewpoint is by misrepresenting it, then maybe you should take a step back and re-evaluate things.

"Valid"? This is a question of opinion, not fact, unless you have empirical evidence to support your position.

 

[Alceste]

Has anyone here suggested that people will always need to spank their kids and spoke negatively about those who choose not to spank their kids? I haven't read the entire thread, but I just see people speaking up against unfair demonization and characterizations.

Yes, several advocates of corporal punishment throughout the thread have insisted that people who don't hit kids must exert no meaningful form of discipline at all, and are basically entirely responsible for juvenile delinquency in our society. FH came dangerously close to that level of silliness by insinuating unspanked kids basically grow up feral.

 

[Sunstone]

...I was beaten as a child (usually randomly and not associated with any rational or specific act I did), and I've ended up being a smart, sensitive, empathetic, and strikingly handsome person, so maybe it actually worked.

Thank the gods you said that! It makes me feel a whole lot better about my habit of giving out random whacks to young kids as they pass me on the sidewalk while yelling at them, "That's for even thinking about playing doctor with your classmates!"

 

[Father Heathen]

"Valid"? This is a question of opinion, not fact, unless you have empirical evidence to support your position.

Oh, did you have some?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Thank the gods you said that! It makes me feel a whole lot better about my habit of giving out random whacks to young kids as they pass me on the sidewalk while yelling at them, "That's for even thinking about playing doctor with your classmates!"

Indeed, if there are any kids who need random whacks and beatings, it's other peoples' kids.

 

[Father Heathen]

FH came dangerously close to that level of silliness by insinuating unspanked kids basically grow up feral.

Let's have a look at that post, shall we?

So now you're comparing parents to governments? Should there be no legal reproductions for someone if they punched out your grandmother and stole her purse? It's not about being "authoritarian". It's about guiding and correcting a child as they develop their conscience and character. There has to be some semblance of rules and structure unless your aim is to have a feral urchin on your hands (or rather on society's hands).

Now where do you see a reference to spanking? I didn't realize that "rules and structure" and "spanking" were synonymous.

 

[Alceste]

Let's have a lot at that post, shall we?



Now where do you see a reference to spanking? I didn't realize that "rules and structure" and "spanking" were synonymous.

Spanking is the specific form of discipline we're discussing. Forgive me for assuming you were trying to keep your comments relevant.

 

[Alceste]

Oh, did you have some?

I am satisfied that the APA statement that was presented earlier in the thread is an accurate representation of the available evidence, so yes. Did you have any specific criticism of it, or were you just planning to pretend it isn't there?

 

[Father Heathen]

Spanking is the specific form of discipline we're discussing. Forgive me for assuming you were trying to keep your comments relevant.

lolwow

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. In your own post, the one which my aforementioned statement was a reply to, you spoke about parenting and discipline in general, and my response was in reference to that.

 

[psychoslice]

I think a lot more people could benefit from getting smacked around a bit, but rather as adults, than as children.

You can't teach an old dog new tricks.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

You can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Oh, I don't expect to teach them anything. I just think they could use a little getting smacked around.

 

[dawny0826]

So to teach that lesson, we smack the kid? What are we teaching him again? :sarcastic

I must have six really strange children, because whenever they got into something they shouldn't (including dangerous things), distraction with a firm "danger" or "hot" worked wonderfully. I didn't go crazy childproofing my home; we did what was necessary to make our house safe.

My girls are now well-adjusted, well-mannered, and respectful. These are words I get from their teachers, martial arts instructors, friends' parents, etc. Not one smack, spank, slap, hit...

Can't argue with success.

Our girls are well-adjusted, well-mannered and respectful as well.

Should we question our successes?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Sarcasm aside, that doesn't remotely resemble anyone's argument here.

Hyperbole aside, I and other parents who refuse(d) to spank our kids have been challenged repeatedly with numerous attempts at "gotcha garbage" (credit goes to Drolefille for introducing to me that super-cool phrase). I can even quote your own attempt at the "what if" game with me by offering to me a situation where my kids were beating up a live animal. After the few sad attempts of criticism toward a parenting decision on my part that was successful in our family.

Has anyone here suggested that people will always need to spank their kids and spoke negatively about those who choose not to spank their kids? I haven't read the entire thread, but I just see people speaking up against unfair demonization and characterizations.

Read Thana's and psychoslices posts. It's the same old tired argument that kids these days don't behave because parents aren't properly disciplining them anymore by refraining from spanking.

When people who are fierce advocates of spanking, they usually tend to be either very defensive when a parent like me or Shireen speak up about our experiences of non-physically-punitive decisions, and Alceste's experiences of being a caretaker of children. But people still cling to myths in spite of the evidence and studies given throughout the thread that suggests that spanking is ineffective at best, and abusive at worst.

I wasn't the only one who noticed the pressing "what if" posts....see here:

Yes, Thana did. She even openly acknowledged she was trying to stack up so many pointless hypothetical factors that she could find a specific set of circumstances where Heather would finally hit her kids. As someone who just doesn't hit people, I can't tell you how silly that tactic is except by referring you back to Heather's sarcastic post.

Hence, my sarcasm. At least somebody else in this thread understands my humor.