Spanking Kids in Kansas

[beenie]

Our girls are well-adjusted, well-mannered and respectful as well.

Should we question our successes?

Dawny0826, from what I read about your discipline with your kids, I don't think you are in the same category of what some of these other posters are talking about. I have no doubt your success is because of great parenting as well.

I was addressing those who claim that if you don't spank, smack, etc., then we are the reason for spoiled, ill-adjusted kids.

 

[dawny0826]

Hyperbole aside, I and other parents who refuse(d) to spank our kids have been challenged repeatedly with numerous attempts at "gotcha garbage" (credit goes to Drolefille for introducing to me that super-cool phrase). I can even quote your own attempt at the "what if" game with me by offering to me a situation where my kids were beating up a live animal. After the few sad attempts of criticism toward a parenting decision on my part that was successful in our family.

The article in the OP is a challenge against KS government for proposing greater leniency with corporeal punishment.

I construed it as a poke against those parents who DO opt to spank their children.

I find it curious and a bit disheartening that those of you who object to spanking have somehow managed to become victims in this thread.

What many have projected is that corporeal punishment is abuse...period.

 

[Debater Slayer]

This thread's focus wasn't on those who DON'T spank, though.

To the contrary, the article in the OP is essentially a challenge against the government for proposing greater leniency with corporeal punishment.

And, I construed it as a poke against those parents who DO opt to spank their children.

I find it curious and a bit disheartening that those of you who object to spanking have somehow managed to become victims in this thread. This is my perspective of course. Take it or leave it.

I'm speaking for myself here: If a teacher tried to inflict pain on my younger brother to "discipline" him, let's just say that I wouldn't be above disciplining the teacher in the same way. Quite literally.

So, yes, I'm in favor of laws that restrict corporal punishment at school.

 

[Father Heathen]

I can even quote your own attempt at the "what if" game with me by offering to me a situation where my kids were beating up a live animal.

My point was about correcting the actual behavior rather than simply diverting/distracting from it. As I've said, spanking isn't the only form of correction/discipline. It's about teaching a child from right and wrong rather than simply occupying them with something less dangerous/distructive.

 

[psychoslice]

Oh, I don't expect to teach them anything. I just think they could use a little getting smacked around.

If they were disciplined properly as kids they wouldn't need smacking around when older.

 

[Father Heathen]

I find it curious and a bit disheartening that those of you who object to spanking have somehow managed to become victims in this thread.

Heh, yeah, it's a tired old game here.

 

[dawny0826]

Dawny0826, from what I read about your discipline with your kids, I don't think you are in the same category of what some of these other posters are talking about. I have no doubt your success is because of great parenting as well.

I was addressing those who claim that if you don't spank, smack, etc., then we are the reason for spoiled, ill-adjusted kids.

Which was precisely my own point.

I object to the mindset that a level-headed parent is incapable of utilizing corporeal punishment in a justifed context that does NOT yield abusive results.

I also object to the mindset that there's a problem with those who opt out of utilizing corporeal punishment.

I support the choices that loving, level-headed people make in the best interests of their own children.

 

[beenie]

The article in the OP is a challenge against KS government for proposing greater leniency with corporeal punishment.

I construed it as a poke against those parents who DO opt to spank their children.

I find it curious and a bit disheartening that those of you who object to spanking have somehow managed to become victims in this thread.

What many have projected is that corporeal punishment is abuse...period.

The article was about schools until people turned it into "kids oughtta be smacked around" type comments... it progressed from there.

I object to spanking, but I don't see myself as a victim in the least. Never once have I considered someone who spanks as an abuser, I've debated my opinion that there are other (preferable IMO) methods of discipline.

The problem with corporal punishment is that not everyone has your control to just do a "pop" on the butt to get their attention. Most people don't use spanking in very specific cases like you do.

I don't spank for a few reasons. One is that I don't like it as a form of discipline, and another is because I DO have a rather short temper at times, and I'm genuinely worried I will overdo it when I get angry. I have learned to curb my temper, and I do a lot of counting, walking away for a minute, etc., but it's definitely something I have to manage.

 

[Bunyip]

What many have projected is that corporeal punishment is abuse...period.

Because it is abuse. Using pain as a training tool is abusive. It would not be tolerated in training animals, nor in training adults - why should it be tolerated for children?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

The article in the OP is a challenge against KS government for proposing greater leniency with corporeal punishment.

I construed it as a poke against those parents who DO opt to spank their children.

The OP was not about greater leniency. It was the KS government offering more protection for teachers who utilize corporal punishment on children with enough force to leave marks.

Then we got a comment saying "Flog them all..." and then supported caning, another supported the paddle, all suggesting that kids aren't being disciplined enough at home.

That was where the severe disagreement came in.

I find it curious and a bit disheartening that those of you who object to spanking have somehow managed to become victims in this thread.

LOL, that's hilarious. I'm not victimized in any way in this thread. I state my thoughts. And I'm challenged. I expect that. But I stand my ground on what I think is right for my family and for the kids I work with. What I was sarcastic about was the backpedalling on how the "What if" questions happened, and then allegedly didn't happen.

No victims here. I'm just calling people out. So you can go ahead and stop being disheartened, D.

What many have projected is that corporeal punishment is abuse...period.

Not according to Thana and psychoslice and a few others in the thread. They feel it's necessary.

 

[dawny0826]

Heh, yeah, it's a tired old game here.

In fairness, love, if you had questioned me the way you questioned Mystic, it may have rubbed me the wrong way.

 

[dawny0826]

I'm speaking for myself here: If a teacher tried to inflict pain on my younger brother to "discipline" him, let's just say that I wouldn't be above disciplining the teacher in the same way. Quite literally.

So, yes, I'm in favor of laws that restrict corporal punishment at school.

As am I. I don't support corporeal punishment in schools. I think it should be a choice made by parents and handled by parents on their own time.

 

[Bunyip]

You seem to like being intentionally disingenuous. What you're purposely failing to acknowledge, is that there is no difference between the two. Physical force is being used in both situations. I can understand why you'd keep ignoring that particular point however, since it would make your view on the matter a huge double standard.

I'm sorry, but it is you who is being disengenuous. What happens between you and your wife when she slaps you for picking at the pot rost is consensual between two adults.

I am presenting no double standard, your wife slapping your hand is not the topic here - the topic is spanking children. An act which is not consensual, it is not between two adults in positions of equal authority and power. It is one very large person using physical force against a powerless and not consenting minor.

You can say that I am being disengenuous for 'failing to acknowledge that there is no difference between the two' - but I do so because there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the two, a crucial difference.

The difference is in the imbalance of power and the absence of consent.

 

[beenie]

The article was about schools until people turned it into "kids oughtta be smacked around" type comments... it progressed from there.

I object to spanking, but I don't see myself as a victim in the least. Never once have I considered someone who spanks as an abuser, I've debated my opinion that there are other (preferable IMO) methods of discipline.

The problem with corporal punishment is that not everyone has your control to just do a "pop" on the butt to get their attention. Most people don't use spanking in very specific cases like you do.

I don't spank for a few reasons. One is that I don't like it as a form of discipline, and another is because I DO have a rather short temper at times, and I'm genuinely worried I will overdo it when I get angry. I have learned to curb my temper, and I do a lot of counting, walking away for a minute, etc., but it's definitely something I have to manage.

I wish to further this by saying that I do think that anyone who feels that children need to feel "pain" in order to learn their lesson, or those who use or condone using belts, wooden spoons, canes, etc. are indeed abusing and beating their children.

 

[Alceste]

Hyperbole aside, I and other parents who refuse(d) to spank our kids have been challenged repeatedly with numerous attempts at "gotcha garbage" (credit goes to Drolefille for introducing to me that super-cool phrase). I can even quote your own attempt at the "what if" game with me by offering to me a situation where my kids were beating up a live animal. After the few sad attempts of criticism toward a parenting decision on my part that was successful in our family.



Read Thana's and psychoslices posts. It's the same old tired argument that kids these days don't behave because parents aren't properly disciplining them anymore by refraining from spanking.

When people who are fierce advocates of spanking, they usually tend to be either very defensive when a parent like me or Shireen speak up about our experiences of non-physically-punitive decisions, and Alceste's experiences of being a caretaker of children. But people still cling to myths in spite of the evidence and studies given throughout the thread that suggests that spanking is ineffective at best, and abusive at worst.

I wasn't the only one who noticed the pressing "what if" posts....see here:



Hence, my sarcasm. At least somebody else in this thread understands my humor.

Yeah, hypothetical stacking is a pretty tedious debate tactic. Imagine the common experience of a baby who hits. We pretty much all stop the baby from hitting by holding their slappy hand firmly and saying "no hitting" in a tone that Means Business.

Try that with "no hitting, UNLESS...."

 

[Thana]

Thana has.

I get on, And all I see from you is 'Thana did this' 'Thana said that'

It's fine though, truth is, I'm comfortable in my position. I don't need anyone's approval, Because I know that smacking my kids to protect them is the best thing for them.

To be honest, I don't even know why I'm debating this. I doubt I'd smack them more than twice in their lifetime, Because as I said it was only for serious and dangerous things. Other than that, They will know the full force of my toy-taking, room sending, treat withholding discipline.

I can see you're passionate about the subject, And if you really believe that a smack on the bottom is equivalent to abuse, Then I can understand your desire to portray me as a bad guy. But perhaps rethinking your methods could prove beneficial. Dishonesty, exaggeration and attacking are not useful tools for a debate.

 

[Alceste]

I get on, And all I see from you is 'Thana did this' 'Thana said that'

It's fine though, truth is, I'm comfortable in my position. I don't need anyone's approval, Because I know that smacking my kids to protect them is the best thing for them.

To be honest, I don't even know why I'm debating this. I doubt I'd smack them more than twice in their lifetime, Because as I said it was only for serious and dangerous things. Other than that, They will know the full force of my toy-taking, room sending, treat withholding discipline.

I can see you're passionate about the subject, And if you really believe that a smack on the bottom is equivalent to abuse, Then I can understand your desire to portray me as a bad guy. But perhaps rethinking your methods could prove beneficial. Dishonesty, exaggeration and attacking are not useful tools for a debate.

I've been referencing your post with the spoon and the pain the entire time. That's why your name keeps coming up - people are asking me who wants to inflict intense physical pain on kids to teach them a lesson, and you're the only one here who does.

 

[Bunyip]

Because I know that smacking my kids to protect them is the best thing for them.

There is a wealth of knowledge in the field of child development to demonstrate that smacking kids is not protecting them. Striking a child is the opposite of protecting a child.

Protect your children from physical harm, rather than physically harm them thinkihg it is for their own good.

 

[Mister_T]

You can say that I am being disengenuous for 'failing to acknowledge that there is no difference between the two' - but I do so because there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the two, a crucial difference.

Huge, crucial difference to you, you say?

What many have projected is that corporeal punishment is abuse...period.

Because it is abuse. Using pain as a training tool is abusive. It would not be tolerated in training animals, nor in training adults - why should it be tolerated for children?

Apparently you do tolerate abuse in adults, but only when it comes to avoiding a double standard you created for yourself.

Yes, I will continue to say you are being disingenuous because you quite blatantly are. :foot:

Thanks for playing.

The difference is in the imbalance of power and the absence of consent.

I never gave my wife "consent" to slap my wrist for picking at dinner, nor does anyone else I know give consent for their spouses to give a minor slap for something so insignificant. You're grasping at straws here.

 

[Bunyip]

Huge, crucial difference to you, you say?

Apparently you do tolerate abuse in adults, but only when it comes to avoiding a double standard you created for yourself.

Yes, I will continue to say you are being disingenuous because you quite blatantly are. :foot:

Thanks for playing.

I think you must have misread.

I do not tolerate the abuse of adults, you are deliberately misrepresenting me. What happens between you and your wife is consenual, what happens when a child is smacked is not consensual - a distinction that I am making for the third time.

You are accusing me of being disengenuous without any merit to your accusation.

There is no double standard, the story you tell of your wife is not the same as smacking children. That we clearly disagree, does not make me disengenuous, nor does it justify your accusations.

The distinction is between consensual and non-consensual physical abuse.

You consent to live with your wife, and are free to go if you ever wish to do so - you live together by mutual consent. If you did not consent to her slapping your hand - you would leave. Children do not have that option.

Furthermore, if you are being honest and do not consent to your wife striking you - and if you feel that you have no choice but to accept that behaviour, then it is abusive.