Speakers corner Hyde park London.?

[Terrywoodenpic]

Picture I took in speakers corner in 1956



Has any one here been to speakers corner Hyde Park?
It is the original of the Soap Box speaker’s corners.
And is the largest and freest in the world
Any thing goes… any one can turn up with their soap box or pair of steps and start speaking.
Any subject… Proselytizing… anti government … anti law… anti religion…. anti Gay… any thing at all. Though what you say must be legal
How do they get away with it?
It is an ancient right that no one has seen any reason to suppress.
How is it policed?
It is not…. There are always a couple of policemen in sight who would break up a fight… but they are not interested in what is said unless it is plainly illegal and some one complains… Their biggest task is to deal with pick pockets.
Many famous speakers have been regular speakers there including…. Karl Marx, Vladimir Lenin, George Orwell, and William Morris. Donald Soper (1926–1998)

You will find virtually any cause has found expression there.

Is Debating allowed?
The whole thing is self moderating… Heckling is rampant and much enjoyed, though it is a brave man who tries it. The better speakers have heard it all before and most are expert at turning the tables. The ridicule of the crowd soon sees off the inexperienced heckler.
Likewise a poor or unpopular speaker can sometimes be seen scurrying away in the wake of taunts from an unsympathetic crowd.

What are the most popular subjects?
Certainly religion and politics but a good speaker on any subject soon draws an audience.

Is there any thing a Forum can learn from all this?
Speakers corner is the most popular public forum in the world, so there must be some thing to learn.
What are the main characterises that has given it such appeal over the years?
It is mostly Proselytizing in nature.
It is extremely diverse.
It is open to Heckling (mild abuse)
Speakers can answer back.
Virtually anything legal goes.
People walk away from poor or unpopular speakers or topics.
It has and still does attract people who have become great international speakers, and thinkers
Conclusion.
The whole Ethos of speakers’ corner is the antithesis of what we allow as normal in this forum. So it might not sit comfortably with in it… but I am sure a Forum based on it, would be extremely popular…. May be directly linked to this one… where those who wish to proselytize or be more argumentative and abusive, could migrate. As well as being a Forum in its own right.
What do others Think?

 

[Mike182]

i think we have similar in our debates section - we only ask that tact and respect be shown to the subjects being touched upon... because that is not at all asked for in a speakers corner, i don't think that would be good for our forum, but i would certainly like to see a forum that is open like this that actually has good debates instead of just shallow name calling.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

i think we have similar in our debates section - we only ask that tact and respect be shown to the subjects being touched upon... because that is not at all asked for in a speakers corner, i don't think that would be good for our forum, but i would certainly like to see a forum that is open like this that actually has good debates instead of just shallow name calling.

I was thinking more in terms of linking to a subsidiary forum that allowed Proselytizing and the equivalent of Heckling.
The art there is for the Proselytizer to keep on track, and suitably put down his detractors. Long gospel passages just do not work in that situation.
To win such a position you must really know your subject and be able to use modern language and thought.
Most would only find that out with experience.

I know of no forum where you can speak to the unconverted... we ban Proselytising and so put off many potential and short term members.
I would say at least 3/4 new members have something they want to get off their chest... but find the rules prevent it.
This would be a way in for them, to eventually join the main forum.

 

[Mike182]

I was thinking more in terms of linking to a subsidiary forum that allowed Proselytizing and the equivalent of Heckling.
The art there is for the Proselytizer to keep on track, and suitably put down his detractors. Long gospel passages just do not work in that situation.
To win such a position you must really know your subject and be able to use modern language and thought.
Most would only find that out with experience.

I know of no forum where you can speak to the unconverted... we ban Proselytising and so put off many potential and short term members.
I would say at least 3/4 new members have something they want to get off their chest... but find the rules prevent it.
This would be a way in for them, to eventually join the main forum.

i do think it would be interesting to see how proselytising manages in an unmoderated debate. the best thing to do i think would be to look for a forum that has this and link to it.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

i do think it would be interesting to see how proselytising manages in an unmoderated debate. the best thing to do i think would be to look for a forum that has this and link to it.

That is the point There isn't one!
Some allow the equivalent of proselytising on a one religion forum as long as you keep to their own beliefs.
But there is not one that allows it for any religion.

This is an opportunity for someone.

 

[Mike182]

That is the point There isn't one!
Some allow the equivalent of proselytising on a one religion forum as long as you keep to their own beliefs.
But there is not one that allows it for any religion.

This is an opportunity for someone.

i think we could capitalise on this... i'd like to hear what others think about it!

on the other hand though, maybe the forums that did try this went extinct, and that is why there aren't any around... would members be able to contain hostilities to only that section of the forum? or would hostilities spill over into the other sections? would the community spirit remain? of would it suffer if we brought in this aspect?

i guess we would need to try it to see, because i don't know how it will affect the forums.

 

[PureX]

The problem with forums like speaker's corner is that eloquence often trumps truth. A clever and quick wit does not an honest man, make. And many a foolish idea has been passed on to the public by the power of an eloquent delivery.

And the same goes for the hecklers. It's easy to completely derail the significant and important conversation by interjecting clever but pointless retorts. In the end it all becomes about who the cleverest and most eloquent, rather than who's got the best ideas.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The problem with forums like speaker's corner is that eloquence often trumps truth. A clever and quick wit does not an honest man, make. And many a foolish idea has been passed on to the public by the power of an eloquent delivery.

And the same goes for the hecklers. It's easy to completely derail the significant and important conversation by interjecting clever but pointless retorts. In the end it all becomes about who the cleverest and most eloquent, rather than who's got the best ideas.

That of course is the attraction of speakers corner
I spent many a happy afternoon just listening in.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

i think we could capitalise on this... i'd like to hear what others think about it!

on the other hand though, maybe the forums that did try this went extinct, and that is why there aren't any around... would members be able to contain hostilities to only that section of the forum? or would hostilities spill over into the other sections? would the community spirit remain? of would it suffer if we brought in this aspect?

i guess we would need to try it to see, because i don't know how it will affect the forums.

I don't think any one has tried it as a multi faith thing. Multi faith forums are rare anyway.
It would not be a good Idea to have it as an integral part of the forums to start with...
Just as a prominent link. with its own identity

If it was a liability it could be sunk.
If it was a goer it could be incorporated.

 

[Halcyon]

I like the idea.

In fact a while back i was talking with a friend about starting just such a forum, a multi-faith religious forum where the moderators only job would be to remove illegal material. Never happened though .

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Some one will have to persuade Todd to have a look at it.

 

[Booko]

I don't think any one has tried it as a multi faith thing. Multi faith forums are rare anyway.

Oh, it's been tried. Just maybe not with vBulletin?

Illuminet BBS had one. Usenet had quite a few variants that were unmoderated.

I've seen a few general religion talk areas online that weren't moderated. Even if you culled out the spam, what was left 75+% trolls. Religion is a topic that tends to attract trolls, I guess.

Or were you thinking that spam and obvious trollish behaviour would be culled?

 

[UnityNow101]

I have seen some Youtube videos of Speaker's Corner and believe that it is a splendid forum for all. To think that true freedom of speech is still alive and well somewhere is great. I just wish that we could have something like that here in the US where views from ALL sides could be heard. Thanks Terry for the interesting picture. I didn't know that the Corner has been around for so long!

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I have seen some Youtube videos of Speaker's Corner and believe that it is a splendid forum for all. To think that true freedom of speech is still alive and well somewhere is great. I just wish that we could have something like that here in the US where views from ALL sides could be heard. Thanks Terry for the interesting picture. I didn't know that the Corner has been around for so long!

It started long a go on Tyburn hill near the public gallows in the 1500's...
the gallows were later moved to the marble arch area and speakers corner moved to it's present location some time in the 1800's. so it is a very old tradition.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Oh, it's been tried. Just maybe not with vBulletin?

Illuminet BBS had one. Usenet had quite a few variants that were unmoderated.

I've seen a few general religion talk areas online that weren't moderated. Even if you culled out the spam, what was left 75+% trolls. Religion is a topic that tends to attract trolls, I guess.

Or were you thinking that spam and obvious trollish behaviour would be culled?

It would need some moderation but a much lighter touch than in our Debate forums.
Spam
Cut and paste
Gross bad behaviour
any thing illegal.
and posts with out original comment but just plagiarism would all go in the waste bin.


Original proselytism
counter argument
Heckling ( including mild abuse)
Much the same as in speaker's corner would all be permitted

some moderation to keep with in the bounds shown above would be necessary.
I would suggest moderation only have two levels
1) posts are moved directly to the waste bin with a comment in the deletion notice.( no moderator consultation as speed will be very important)
2) immediate ban from the forum for repeated posts that are deemed to be over the edge of even these limited rules.

 

[FFH]

I've been to Hyde park, but I don't think there were any speakers at the time or we just didn't get to that section of the park. It seemed so huge, lovely and green...

Really didn't have much time there, but did sit in the park for a while and was amazed that I saw no sprinklers like we have here, it being so naturally rainy there and so extremely dry here....

So much to see and experience in Europe and so little time...

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I've been to Hyde park, but I don't think there were any speakers at the time or we just didn't get to that section of the park. It seemed so huge, lovely and green...

Really didn't have much time there, but did sit in the park for a while and was amazed that I saw no sprinklers like we have here, it being so naturally wet there and so extremely dry here....

So much to see and experience in Europe and so little time...

I have never know it with out speakers, even in winter there are always a few preaching to the pigeons and the odd passer by.
You probably went to the wrong part.
Sundays are the best days.

Here is a link that shows more pictures... though I don't think they show the essence like my photo does, they show it more like a carnival.
http://www.urban75.org/london/speakers-corner.html

Location Map http://www.britainexpress.com/London/hyde-park.htm

 

[FFH]

A quick U-tube search brings up some interesting speaches and characters...

 

[FFH]

I have never know it with out speakers, even in winter there are always a few preaching to the pigeons and the odd passer by.
You probably went to the wrong part.
.

Yeah, we missed out... but no worries, just watching a few speakers on U-tube now...

Very cool...

Sundays are the best days

Yeah, sounds like a lot of fun..

 

[Mohsen]

things have moved on when considering filming crews, since then.

3 cameras and good sound!