Spiritual Materialism

[Petros2]

It occurs to me that there is little to no difference between the person who accumulates wealth and worldly power and one who accumulates ‘spiritual knowledge’ (could be aquired in religious study) and spiritual authority. It seems that both types of accumulation are designed to improve, enhance, and to further the ‘self’. Both are egotistic in their origin, intent, and outcome. This would be called ‘spiritual materialism’ – a most subtle form of self gratification.

In your mind – is there a distinction? To me there isn’t.

Petros

 

[michel]

It occurs to me that there is little to no difference between the person who accumulates wealth and worldly power and one who accumulates ‘spiritual knowledge’ (could be aquired in religious study) and spiritual authority. It seems that both types of accumulation are designed to improve, enhance, and to further the ‘self’. Both are egotistic in their origin, intent, and outcome. This would be called ‘spiritual materialism’ – a most subtle form of self gratification.

In your mind – is there a distinction? To me there isn’t.

Petros

Hi Petros, Namaste.

I seem to have missed your introductory thread, and therefore, wish to take the opportunity to welcome you to the forum.

I personally see a world of difference between the accumulation of wealth and knowledge.
To me, power from wealth is is something that I dislike intensely, when flaunted in public. I think I can safely say that power from wealth usualy entails the acquisition of all the usual forms of satisfying 'entertainment needs' - once we have achieved all these, there is a tendency to look for something even better - and that is when there is a danger of 'going down the wrong path' - taking drugs, alcoholism - whatever. The faster the wealth is acquired, the faster is the 'downfall' into the search for greater titillation.

Spiritual knowledge, to me, goes hand in hand with humility. Those who profess to know much are often the ones who think they know, but are misguided. The wise are often silent.

I can only talk about how I see this subject - I would never think of myself as feeling any form of self-gratification from spiritual knowledge or enlightenment, whereas I can see myself being proud of my achievements in what I have achieved materially. Not from a personal point of view -let me hasten to add- but because I see myself as being the one responsible for supporting my wife and Children, and that is my sole 'need' for money. I must admit that I worry about not having 'enough', and the more I worry, the more I accumulate, the greater is the worry to make it secure.

As far as 'authority' is concerned, I see nothing 'good' in either spiritual or financial authority. I don't believe in ostentation.

 

[Petros2]

Thanks for the welcome. : )
There's often pride and sense of accomplishement with spiritual matters. "I've found it!", 'I've meditated - now enlightened!', I've read the holy scriptures, I've compared religions, and now I have some knowledge about all this. I'm proud, humbly pleased or whatever you call it, of the fact that I'm above such mundane matters as money, worldly position, and so on. When I peel off the more mundane levels of pride, I see there's other more subtle layers of self-pride. All relate back to 'self', 'me'. There is nothing wrong here, this is not to say we're bad - but it simply is how we are. You say that the inner layers of me are more refined, more spiritual than the outer - well to a degree that's correct I suppose. But ultimately, are we still not only finding more clever ways of promoting ourselves?
Petros

 

[michel]

Thanks for the welcome. : )
There's often pride and sense of accomplishement with spiritual matters. "I've found it!", 'I've meditated - now enlightened!', I've read the holy scriptures, I've compared religions, and now I have some knowledge about all this. I'm proud, humbly pleased or whatever you call it, of the fact that I'm above such mundane matters as money, worldly position, and so on. When I peel off the more mundane levels of pride, I see there's other more subtle layers of self-pride. All relate back to 'self', 'me'. There is nothing wrong here, this is not to say we're bad - but it simply is how we are. You say that the inner layers of me are more refined, more spiritual than the outer - well to a degree that's correct I suppose. But ultimately, are we still not only finding more clever ways of promoting ourselves?
Petros

I still don't see the accomplishment, or the feeling of pride. As far as I am concerned, the more I learn, the more i realize how little I know, and how much more there is to be learned.

 

[Petros2]

In reply, yes, there's the experience of real humility 'I don't know' - 'the more I know - the less I know', etc. That immediate realization that our mind and ability to know is recognized and understood. No games there. I think you are mistaken when you say that we stop at that point - humbled. What happens next is interesting, sometimes too subtle even to catch. Inside we say to ourselves after our immediate humbleness is too often the following: 'and what a humble person I have become too', 'God loves the humble man - me', 'I am getting closer to true knowledge - by dropping my pride', 'I know that I don't know' and so on. I'm not trying to create some kind of clever loop here where 'no matter what you do you are selfish', but rather to see that our ego, our important self, finds ever more subtle ways of preserving it's sanctity and strength. It's as if we can't leave well enough be - we have a natural experience of humilty, then thought jumps in to take credit for being so smart, and we've now added a secret little badge of - let's call it 'humility' - that only 'god' and I know about. Why? Petros