lukethethird
unknown member
That's it?
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Spiritual v. Religious?
- Thread starter Martin
- Start date
This is interesting, as when I search for dictionary definitions of Spiritual, this is what I get instead:
Definition of spiritual | Dictionary.com
adjective
of, relating to, or consisting of spirit; incorporeal.
of or relating to the spirit or soul, as distinguished from the physical nature:a spiritual approach to life.
closely akin in interests, attitude, outlook, etc.:the professor's spiritual heir in linguistics.
of or relating to spirits or to spiritualists; supernatural or spiritualistic.
SPIRITUALITY English Definition and Meaning | Lexico.com
The quality of being concerned with the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
‘the shift in priorities allows us to embrace our spirituality in a more profound way’
Spiritual definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary
1. ADJECTIVE
Spiritual means relating to people's thoughts and beliefs, rather than to their bodies and physical surroundings.
She lived entirely by spiritual values, in a world of poetry and imagination.
adjective
of, relating to, or consisting of spirit; incorporeal.
of or relating to the spirit or soul, as distinguished from the physical nature:a spiritual approach to life.
closely akin in interests, attitude, outlook, etc.:the professor's spiritual heir in linguistics.
of or relating to spirits or to spiritualists; supernatural or spiritualistic.
SPIRITUALITY English Definition and Meaning | Lexico.com
The quality of being concerned with the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
‘the shift in priorities allows us to embrace our spirituality in a more profound way’
Spiritual definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary
1. ADJECTIVE
Spiritual means relating to people's thoughts and beliefs, rather than to their bodies and physical surroundings.
She lived entirely by spiritual values, in a world of poetry and imagination.
The above definitions I found and linked to are fine with me. But I'll add this from Wikipedia as a starter for how I see spirituality as: Spirituality - Wikipedia
In modern times the emphasis is on subjective experience[9] and the "deepest values and meanings by which people live",[10][11] incorporating personal growth or transformation, usually in a context separate from organized religious institutions.[6] Spirituality can be defined generally as an individual's search for ultimate or sacred meaning and purpose in life.[14] Additionally it can mean to seek out or search for personal growth, religious experience, belief in a supernatural realm or afterlife, or to make sense of one's own "inner dimension".[12][13][15][16]
That works for me. Also, from that same article a couple paragraphs earlier is this explanation, which ties directly into the OP of this thread, as well as reflects my feeling and usage of the word spirituality:
There is a key distinction which needs to be made between the religious and the spiritual. William James in his study of The Varieties of Religious Experience makes the distinction early in this lecture series that there exists "one great partition which divides the religious field. On the one side of it lies institutional, on the other personal religion."[18] This personal religion is spirituality, what he defines as, "the feelings, acts, and experiences of individual men in their solitude, so far as they apprehend themselves to stand in relation to whatever they may consider the divine".[19]
It may or may not be theistic in nature. Buddhism is definitely spiritual, but it is a non-theistic religion and practice. Nature mysticism and pantheism as well, for instance is very deeply spiritual, but does not have deity form per se. But one can also believe in God and not be religious.
God is really after all, just a word for an understanding of Ultimate Reality, and those who are spiritual are those interested in that, however they frame it with their cognitive, intellectual minds. Those are just considered fingers pointing at the moon anyway, and not the Moon itself.
Hopefully this will be help you out.
I would agree with what you underscored, but I would say that it is not necessary to believe in prophets or any other religious belief in order to progress spiritually. This quote is to say the least elitist, and untrue. I would say some of the world's most advanced spiritually enlightened souls, are not Baha'is. And would never become one either.
This whole notion that in order to advance spiritually someone has to accept Bahaullah, is coming from a highly myopic vision of Ultimate Truth. It is very religiocentric, not spiritually transcendent. I like what the Christian mystic Meister Eckhart paradoxically prayed, "I pray God make me free of God, so that I may know God in his unconditioned being." Putting theological expectations on spiritual Awakening, is putting beliefs before God. God is literally, "beyond belief".
No.
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Theres a whole lot more how many do you want?
There’s justice, forgiveness, mercy, compassion, tolerance, respect, patience and many more.
lukethethird
unknown member
None of which is the sole domain of religion so what gives?
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
God is a fictitious entity. What proof do you have for him?
I respect that spirituality is very important especially in such a materialistic world, and we need more people who are focused on it. I have gained much from what the Buddha says. So profound.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Although we differ here, I do think that personality worship is very wrong. So for example, let’s just imagine this scenario. Christ focuses on teaching certain spiritual attributes to people such as love, forgiveness, charity and so on which gives birth to hospitals, orphanages, schools and organisations helping the poor etc.
Then, in a tribal environment, where tribes plunder, rape, kill and steal endlessly including infanticide which means they would bury their child alive in the sand if the first born were a female, Prophet Muhammad appears and does away with such cruelties, unites the barbaric tribes of the Arabian Peninsula and creates a great nation with law and order. He establishes perhaps the first world constitution, the constitution of Medina. Eventually Islam spreads much knowledge to the west which helps revive Europe.
So from the individual to nationhood humanity has now established some 300 nations in the world. But now with the internet, international travel and communication, the various beliefs, cultures, races and nationalities are forced to mix and mingle often conflicting as to which ethic or belief or system is best.
So like the days of the Arab tribes, humanity is at a crossroads lack of international law and order this time. In Myanmar the regime commits genocide against the Rohinga, in Syria and Yemen and elsewhere dictators ply their trade with the utmost freedom.
But just before these things and the world wars, another Prophet appears. This time not to unite the tribes but the nations. And Baha’u’llah appeared with a universal ethic called the ‘oneness of mankind’, which, if applied legally can create and unite humanity into a world community and eventually a world ‘spiritual’ civilisation’.
Baha’u’llah’s teachings are so advanced that we still have not achieved them. Among them are worldcitizenship.
He writes ‘the earth is but one country and mankind it’s citizens’.
My point is that there is nothing greater we can imagine on this planet than the establishment of a world spiritual civilisation based upon recognition of the oneness and equality of all humanity legally binding.
He also advocated concepts like the Responsibility to Protect to ensure oppressive regimes like in Myanmar, Iran, Syria and elsewhere could not simply rely on allies to veto to protect them. His teachings are exactly what this age urgently needs.
It’s not a matter of worshipping Baha’u’llah but seeing if we can’t adopt some of His solutions. He even foresaw the establishment of world bodies in the 19th century. So for me the value in turning to Baha’u’llah is in His guidance for this age. Surely we could now use a universal second language! Surely we need to stop tyrants and oppressors. He shows us how we can do it and achieve peace.
Individual spiritual plans are good but they don’t stop the slaughter and genocide in the world but Baha’u’llah’s teachings if implemented will do just that so we work day and night for its realisation for the betterment of the world.
The Great Being, wishing to reveal the prerequisites of the peace and tranquillity of the world and the advancement of its peoples, hath written: The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny. …The day is approaching when all the peoples of the world will have adopted one universal language and one common script.
It is my personal understanding that each and every one of these qualities leads back to a Manifestation of God without which we would not have any attributes at all but be more like stones without expression or feeling.
The Manifestations of God, Their Lives and Teachings are proof enough.
How are these Great Beings explained?
lukethethird
unknown member
justice, forgiveness, mercy, compassion, tolerance, respect, patience and many more
So you are sticking all these human consructs and traits on to a God, why?
Hi Policy. Great to get a post from you albeit one word. Lol!
To answer that I believe humans are spiritual beings but that we live in a physical world. However, our spiritual state governs the world. Let’s take the financial system. If is based upon lying, deceit and exploitation then we see extreme poverty like in Myanmar and other poor countries where the mindset or spiritual qualities of the regime lacks kindness, care and justice which are all spiritual qualities so people experience poverty.
In the west where we see a bit more accountability, we see masks and covid testing kits given out free in many cases, free vaccines, a lot of free social services as opposed to military dictatorships who lack spiritual attributes so their people are forever struggling to meet the basic necessities.
Today most societies are not governed by spiritual qualities so even in the west we have very high rates of suicide, drug addiction, domestic violence etc.
This situation is I believe because spiritual civilisation is out of balance with material civilisation.
For true happiness, wealth and prosperity both need to be in balance. Not too materialistic but not religiously fanatical. Moderation is key.
Ok. I believe just as all light originates from the sun, so too all spiritual life originates from God and His Manifestations.
Have you read Genesis where there was complete darkness until God created light? The Bible is a Book primarily about spiritual happenings so my understanding is that the creation story is not referring to the creation of the physical earth but spiritual life. According to scientists the earth is around 4.5 billion years old so the 7 days of creation cannot possibly be saying that the earth is only 7,000 years old which Bible scholars say as it says in the Bible a day is a thousand years.
So if it is not speaking about the creation of the physical world, then what is it referring to?
Genesis 1:2
The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep.
So there was no spiritual life, only God. Then God goes on to create light which is spiritual qualities before man even existed.
Virtues such as love, justice, compassion and mercy only existed with God until He ‘created us in His Image’. That is we were given spiritual attributes and qualities by God not born with them. He placed these things in us whether we admit it or not.
So because we have freedom of choice we can say ‘I’m spiritual’ but I don’t need or believe in God. However, it was God Who gave us those qualities in the first place.
lukethethird
unknown member
I know of
"justice, forgiveness, mercy, compassion, tolerance, respect, patience and many more"
because I am human, not because of you and what you read and believe about Gods.
But have humans been able to stop wars, genocide, war crimes, suicides, drug addiction, domestic violence, world poverty, the environment, child sexual abuse, terrorism, provide justice and human rights for all?
So being just human we had two major wars millions killed and a Holocaust more millions killed. So being human and turning away from God’s Teachers what’s that ever done for us?
God says to love each other we hate. God says to unite we divide and put nukes on ever corner. So can humans be trusted? Where is world peace? Where is an end to poverty? We say or claim we don’t need God’s guidance then we watch as our world is falling apart. Humans are in charge so it’s humans fault and responsibility to stop running away but fix these problems.
But where is the mercy and compassion of us humans? We protest in the millions for same sex marriage but when genocide is committed we couldn’t give a damn. So I’d say we are in very urgent need of turning to God and becoming truly human and caring not so much about our sexual preferences than about the well-being of our fellow human being who cries help! Help! And we humans just turn our backs and continue on our merry way to fight for trivial things like sexual preferences.
ppp
Well-Known Member
What you seem to be talking are the moral metrics. Empathy. Equity. Reciprocity. Cooperation. Those are things that I value, but they are entirely materialistic in nature. Those characteristics are a product of our psychology, which in turn, is a function of our biology.
What about truthfulness and trustworthiness? These are spiritual virtues which we need to run our banks and financial systems.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Those are functions of the four metrics cited above. As is a notion of obligation to others.
To us they are virtues. But I’m interested in what you refer to as the four metrics. Maybe you can enlighten me?