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Sri Krishna and Devi (Durga incarnation)

Shantanu

Well-Known Member
I know that Sri Krishna is the Supreme God, so wondered what is this Devi or Shakti that is also regarded as God in Hinduism. Is Devi a vital part of Hinduism in which a Personal God is both Sri Krishna as a fatherly figure and Durga as a motherly figure? Are both the names sacred as the names of God? Both Sri Krishna and Durga acquire the numerological significance of the number 7 according to the Hebrew Chaldean Numerological System that I trusted as being of importance as revelations from God. So is God saying that Durga is the feminine form of Supreme God Sri Krishna? I doubt that God can be both a male and a female at the same time: that is insulting God as being a hermaphrodite. So I reject this idea.

But perhaps to be accessible to females, God is saying that worshipping Devi as Durga is an acceptable form of addressing God Sri Krishna because He does not wish to disenfranchise women from the process of worshipping God as Abrahamic religions do. More specifically I know that He definitely accepts Saraswati as the knowledge component of Devi, just like He accepts Lakshmi as being the wealth component of Devi, and Kali as being Shakti (power) component of Devi.

Thus, Durga is an incarnation of Sri Krishna.
 
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SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Interesting way of looking at things.

I was always taught that they are two halves of one complete being. For without Sita, Lord Rama is incomplete, is he not? Without Radha, Sri Krishna is not whole. And Kali is the only one capable of taming Lord Shiva and vice versa. Etc etc etc.

But why can't god be both male and female at the same time? I mean it is God after all! Do the Abraham religions not teach that humans are made in the image of God? If God doesn't have a feminine side, then why are there females? What was the cause of creating Eve from Adam's rib? It was because Adam felt incomplete (well he was lonely, but to me that's basically the same thing.)

I guess it goes with the whole Ying Yang thing I find common in Hindu interpretations. Without masculinity then femininity would be for naught and vice versa. Every coin needs two sides to be whole.
 

Kalibhakta

Jai Maha Kali Ma!
To me, even more so then my Teacher who tends to play this down, Lord Shiva is the lesser but still vital half to Mother Kali. Lord Shiva is consciousness and Mother Kali is energy. Shiva without Shakti is shava, a corpse. It is from my understanding that this is the Shaiva view too, but Shiva is in their path is the dominant half, and that is the major difference between Shakti and Shaiva thinking.

As I have learned before, I cannot assume what I think of Lord Shiva is what others think of him, so I am just stating what I think.
 

4M17

Member
Krishna is the supreme God as revealed by scriptures and mahamaya or durga or Parvati is his external energy personified that's why she is also known as Narayani meaning the energy of the supreme Narayana..and also she is the one responsible for the material affairs of the material universe..durga dhama - a prison whose gardian is durga...just an analogy - if a child will to upset his father, the mother will keep him in a room(or give him a toy to play with) until he is ready to come in front of the father...in this angle of vision, mother Parvati keeps us in bonded this wold until we are ready to serve the supreme lord Krishna/Narayana...
Krishna has multifarious energies...yogamaya, sandini samvit, hladi, mahamaya,etc..and its also explain that the expansion of yogamaya in this material world is mahamaya..but the chief of all is Radharani(hladi Shakti-pleasure giving potency)and in fact she is our original mother as well as Krishna the original father not to forget Balrama, the first direct expansion of Krishna represent the GURU...
some say Radha & Krishna or Lashmi & Narayana or MahaLashmi & Mahavishnu are non different is also true..since Krishna is God & radharani is his internal spiritual potency..in this sense they are one & nodifferent...
So we should not think of male & female aspect in a perverted way because even in the spiritual world Purushotama(the supreme male/supreme enjoyer) and Prakriti(female/enjoyed) is not based just on sex differences but means the enjoyer who is always God & the enjoyed (prakriti/female)-and all jivas & energies of Krishna/Narayana are termed as prakriti..in Bhagavad gita Krishna says that his is the only male/enjoyer(Purushotama) and everything else is prakriti(enjoyed)
I know it's quite a complex subject matter to explain..ive tried put it as simple as I can..hope it helps..thx ;-)
 

User14

Member
But perhaps to be accessible to females, God is saying that worshipping Devi as Durga is an acceptable form of addressing God Sri Krishna because He does not wish to disenfranchise women from the process of worshipping God as Abrahamic religions do.

I wonder if it's true that Devi worship is more common among women than men. It's certainly true in the West and in "New Age"-inspired spirituality, in which it seems many women are drawn to Shakti primarily because the idea of God's power being female provides a model for politically liberal feminine empowerment.

But from a purely bhakti perspective, in which the goal is more to love God as an other rather than to become or identify directly with God, I would think male devotees of the Divine Mother would be more common than female devotees. Why? Because men often seem to have a closer and more loving relationship with their mothers, and women seem to have a closer and more loving relationship with their fathers. It seems like opposites attract when it comes to personalist bhakti. Many male bhaktas choose to put themselves in the mindset of a woman in order to make their devotion to Krishna stronger.

I was always taught that they are two halves of one complete being. For without Sita, Lord Rama is incomplete, is he not? Without Radha, Sri Krishna is not whole. And Kali is the only one capable of taming Lord Shiva and vice versa. Etc etc etc.

That's how I undestand it too. There are two distinct aspects or persons within God, one being fully male (in a metaphorical sense) and the other being fully female. There isn't a blending of male and female within one person, but you still need both to have the unified whole.


Krishna is the supreme God as revealed by scriptures and mahamaya or durga or Parvati is his external energy personified that's why she is also known as Narayani meaning the energy of the supreme Narayana..and also she is the one responsible for the material affairs of the material universe..durga dhama - a prison whose gardian is durga...just an analogy - if a child will to upset his father, the mother will keep him in a room(or give him a toy to play with) until he is ready to come in front of the father...in this angle of vision, mother Parvati keeps us in bonded this wold until we are ready to serve the supreme lord Krishna/Narayana...
Krishna has multifarious energies...yogamaya, sandini samvit, hladi, mahamaya,etc..and its also explain that the expansion of yogamaya in this material world is mahamaya..but the chief of all is Radharani(hladi Shakti-pleasure giving potency)and in fact she is our original mother as well as Krishna the original father not to forget Balrama, the first direct expansion of Krishna represent the GURU...
some say Radha & Krishna or Lashmi & Narayana or MahaLashmi & Mahavishnu are non different is also true..since Krishna is God & radharani is his internal spiritual potency..in this sense they are one & nodifferent...
So we should not think of male & female aspect in a perverted way because even in the spiritual world Purushotama(the supreme male/supreme enjoyer) and Prakriti(female/enjoyed) is not based just on sex differences but means the enjoyer who is always God & the enjoyed (prakriti/female)-and all jivas & energies of Krishna/Narayana are termed as prakriti..in Bhagavad gita Krishna says that his is the only male/enjoyer(Purushotama) and everything else is prakriti(enjoyed)
I know it's quite a complex subject matter to explain..ive tried put it as simple as I can..hope it helps..thx ;-)

Interesting. I wonder- how common is it for Vaishnavas to conceptualize the female aspect of God as Parvati—or one of her forms like Durga or Kali—rather than Lakshmi, Sita or Radha? Parvati of course being more common with Shaivas, but it does seem like there is some crossover between the traditions regarding their Devis.
 

Shrew

Active Member
I know that Sri Krishna is the Supreme God,
Only for some of the Vaishnava sampradayas (sampradaya = tradition).
Even for most Vaishnavas Vishnu is God, Krishna is one of His Avataras.
But some Vaishnava sampradayas regard Krishna as Supreme God.

Hinduism has a variety unique in worls religions, everyone can choose the path they like.

From what I understand it is like this:

The Absolute is beyond words, to be able to speak about it it's given the name Brahman.
Brahman is the underlying reality of everything, what we experience as the world is just an superimposition
of this reality brought about by our egos.

Now Brahman has two aspects, Nirguna and Saguna.
Nirguna Brahman is just Brahman.
Saguna Brahman is Brahman as God, the Creator, Preserver and Destroyer of the universe.
This aspect of Brahman is also called Ishvara (masculine) or Ishvari (feminine).

The different sampradayas have different views about who is Ishvara or Ishvari.
Those who give that position to Vishnu or Krishna are called Vaishnavas.
Those who give it to Vishnu are Shaivas.
Those who see the Goddess in the position of Ishvari are called Shaktas.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I wonder if it's true that Devi worship is more common among women than men.

That's how I undestand it too. There are two distinct aspects or persons within God, one being fully male (in a metaphorical sense) and the other being fully female. There isn't a blending of male and female within one person, but you still need both to have the unified whole.

Interesting. I wonder- how common is it for Vaishnavas to conceptualize the female aspect of God as Parvati- or one of her forms like Durga or Kali- rather than Lakshmi, Sita or Radha?
If women need a male, the males need and respect a mother. Devi worship is, IMHO, just as popular in males as in females. I go with your second paragraph. The last is sort of Taboo. Parvati is mother to Krishna, she is mother to the whole universe. Krishna and Rukmani were married in the presence of Mother Parvati (Harsiddhi Mata temple in Porbandar, that is what the tradition says. Image below).

Even the marriage of Vasudeva and Devaki or Nand and Yashoda would not have been possible without the blessings of Mother Parvati. Mother Sita prayed to Mother Parvati to make it happen that Lord Rama marries her. She had gone for 'Gauri pujan' when she saw Lord Rama for the first time. 'Gauri pujan' is the first thing that a Hindu married woman does after the marriage ceremony, just like Ganesha pujan in the beginning of any ritual or happy event.

images
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I wonder if it's true that Devi worship is more common among women than men. It's certainly true in the West and in "New Age"-inspired spirituality, in which it seems many women are drawn to Shakti primarily because the idea of God's power being female provides a model for politically liberal feminine empowerment.

But from a purely bhakti perspective, in which the goal is more to love God as an other rather than to become or identify directly with God, I would think male devotees of the Divine Mother would be more common than female devotees. Why? Because men often seem to have a closer and more loving relationship with their mothers, and women seem to have a closer and more loving relationship with their fathers. It seems like opposites attract when it comes to personalist bhakti. Many male bhaktas choose to put themselves in the mindset of a woman in order to make their devotion to Krishna stronger.
I don't think the "Devi cults" are particularly more popular for women as opposed to men in the East. Only Westerners (in particular feminists) view Devi worship as politically liberating. Kali may not be demure but she like all her incarnations are models of what a good wife should be. In fact she's traditionally viewed as a virgin. She is not elevated above her husband, she is the other half of his whole. She is still bound to the role of a traditional wife. Albeit more.... Ferocious lol

In Devi worship a male should always be sure to tap into their latent feminity (female energy) in order to properly approach Ma. There are probably more females in prominent religious positions in Devi sects though.
I know the belief that to anger a female is to incur the wrath of Ma Kali or Durga Ma is particularly common among the Devi Bhaktas though.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Krishna and Durga. And the prison. Ah, yes, I was told.

There are many "versions". Now let me tell one I heard a long time ago.

Krishna appeared a long, long time ago in Mathura, in India, as the divine child of Devaki and Vasudeva. I have been to that place.

"Krishna was born in a prison," said the young man who drove me all the way to Mathura. He was my hired driver. All along the way he played a cassette tape which played a song, the vocalist in a deep low voice would chant Kali Maa, Kali Maa over and over in the song. Then Durga song. Devi was on my mind as I looked out the window as the sun rose. Further East, Calcutta rising as it does with a sound of metal to metal, the crows, people calling chai, but here only birds. Strange. I am going to Mathura, both Krishna and the Goddess who destroys demons both on my mind.

When I reached Mathura, the first place I was dropped was a fantastic temple, white, probably a lot of marble. Inside there were large, beautiful paintings of Krishna leela.

There were a lot of young girls for some reason in the temple. They were so nice to me!

"He was in the jail cell of the Demon named Kamsa," one of the Indian girls told me. The grandmother smiled at me.

"Devaki was Krishna's Mother," said a man with a beard to me. "And She was the Sister of Kamsa," he said.

So Krishna's Mother was the Sister of a Demon, I asked?

"Devaki was the Sister of the Demon Kamsa and was Krishna's Mother. Here He was born in prison," said a very beautiful girl that I tried not to look at her directly in eyes or I would faint.

Hmmm... yes. Krishna's Mother was from a Family of the Demon. Yes?

More details came, but now from an ISKCON devotee, an American boy. He told me that the Demon Kamsa was the King. When Devaki married Vasudeva, after the grand wedding Kamsa the Demon took his sister Devaki and her husband by chariot, but ...

... He heard a voice from the sky.

"The eighth child of Devaki will kill you," said the voice. Who would let Kansa know that ahead pf time, I thought? Whose voice?

But the Americano continued.

"Kamsa wanted to kill Devaki then and there," said the ISKCON devotee.

I was in Mathura at the time of celebrating Krishna's birth. So that was a topic. And what a topic. I listened to evedything. I pretended not to know some parts. Let me remember the rest they told me.

I will not forget what those girls told me. Impossible to forget that. Or them. But the Americano really liked me, he wanted someone like me to listen. And I loved to listen. Listening is a wonderful thing. If it is Hinduism, I am listening.

So Vasudeva requested Kamsa the Demon not to cut off the head of Devaki the sister of the Demon.

"Vasudeva promised to give Kamsa the first child of Devaki to him," said the same beauty.

And the next, and next, said the ISKCON boy.

"All of them, not just the Eighth?" I asked.

All of them.

Kamsa agreed. But to make sure no child escaped so that he woild be cheated he locked both Devaki and Vasudeva in prison.

"Here. You are where the prison was," I was told.

I thought, my teacher said I might be happy. That I laugh a lot. I like to have fun. It is true. But he said, I am in a prison.

So we do not need to go very far to meet a fellow prisoner.

There are different versions. Now I suppose I will get yelled at.

On the first child born, Kamsa snatched it up right away and holding the baby by the ankles he smashed the baby's head against a rock. This child was "Matsya", so he destroyed all the Temples of Matsya.

The second was "Kurma". He chopped the baby's head off, and destroyed all the Temples of Kurma.

The thrid was "Varaha", he burned the baby and burned all the Temples to Varaha.

And so on and so forth, the fourth "Narasimha", then the fifth "Vamana", the sixth "Parashurama", the seventh "Rama". We will skip the details.

Krishna appeared as the Eighth, a newborn in a prison cell.

Vasudeva and Devaki looked with delight in their newborn.

Then something magical happened.

The guards outside the prison fell asleep.

The heavy prison doors opened.

Vasudeva picked up the baby Krishna and carried Him across the Yamuna, from Mathura to Gokula Vrindavan.

Entering his stepbrother Nanda Maharaja’s house, he saw that Nanda's wife Yashoda had just given birth to a baby girl, named Subhadra.

In Jagannath Puri there are the three famous murtis, Jagannath, Balabhadra and Subhadra.

Yashoda and everyone else were asleep. Vasudeva switched the babies, leaving Krishna and taking Subhadra.

The he went back to the prison in Mathura, with the female child, and closed the prison door.

When Kamsa learned that Devaki had given birth of the Eighth, he came to snatch the baby to smash the head onto the stone floor.

That is when it happened.

The baby Subhadra which many call "the Sister of Krishna" became the Eight Armed Durga!

Her light and power put fear in the heart of the Demon.

“Fool!” she screamed.

“You can’t kill me!" ...

"Know this, Kamsa!
... The child who will be your undoing is already born."

So something was told to me, but it is well known. Durga manifested in that prison. The rest you can read about. But Krishna and Durga had a very close relationship even from the very day Krishna was born.

Back in the car for a long drive home, I asked my driver, "So, you like Kali and Durga. The music."

"So you must be a Shakta Hindu," I said.

He gave me a funny look.

"Hindu? I am a Muslim," he said.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
He was a good businessman, your driver. And then music goes beyond religions.
Hmmm... yes. Krishna's Mother was from a Family of the Demon. Yes?
Kamsa was not a demon till the time he heard that the eighth child of Devaki will kill him. He was not a good person either, but he was a loving brother. He liked Vasudeva. He had put his father in jail to ascend the throne, Ugrasen. Ugrasen, of course, was a nice person. Yes, he was driving the chariot and was taking the newly-married couple, Vasudeva and Devaki, to Vasudeva's mansion. well, it is all written by Lord Brahma, Vidhata. It had to happen that way. God's 'leela'.
 
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Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
And so Devī is called Nārāyanī because she was born as the sister of Nārāyana.

sarvamangala mangalye
shive sarvārtha sādhike
sharanye tryambake gaurī
nārāyanī namostute


By some anthropomorphic extensions and silly over-reaching we can probably say Vishnu and Shiva are brothers-in-law.

Picture it: at a family gathering, Ganesha and Subramaniya as little boys running to Vishnu and Lakshmi: "Uncle Vishnu! Aunt Lakshmi!"

Ok, maybe that was over the top even for me. :facepalm:
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Picture it: at a family gathering, Ganesha and Subramaniya as little boys running to Vishnu and Lakshmi: "Uncle Vishnu! Aunt Lakshmi!" :facepalm:
I do not know the exact relationship, but yes, I know for sure that Lord Ganesha and Lord Subrahmaniam address Lord Vishnu and Mother Lakshmi as Uncle ji and Aunti ji. I have heard the first two talking to the second two.

However, my Brahman is beyond any such 'dvaita'. or multiplicity (don't get the exact Sanskrit term immediately). It is one without a second. :D
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I know that Sri Krishna is the Supreme God, so wondered what is this Devi or Shakti that is also regarded as God in Hinduism. Is Devi a vital part of Hinduism in which a Personal God is both Sri Krishna as a fatherly figure and Durga as a motherly figure? Are both the names sacred as the names of God? Both Sri Krishna and Durga acquire the numerological significance of the number 7 according to the Hebrew Chaldean Numerological System that I trusted as being of importance as revelations from God. So is God saying that Durga is the feminine form of Supreme God Sri Krishna? I doubt that God can be both a male and a female at the same time: that is insulting God as being a hermaphrodite. So I reject this idea.

But perhaps to be accessible to females, God is saying that worshipping Devi as Durga is an acceptable form of addressing God Sri Krishna because He does not wish to disenfranchise women from the process of worshipping God as Abrahamic religions do. More specifically I know that He definitely accepts Saraswati as the knowledge component of Devi, just like He accepts Lakshmi as being the wealth component of Devi, and Kali as being Shakti (power) component of Devi.

Thus, Durga is an incarnation of Sri Krishna.
Krishna is only the Supreme in certain groups under the huge umbrella of Hinduism. Devi is Supreme in Shaktism. I specifically worship Kali as the Ultimate Reality (Brahman).
I don't think the "Devi cults" are particularly more popular for women as opposed to men in the East. Only Westerners (in particular feminists) view Devi worship as politically liberating. Kali may not be demure but she like all her incarnations are models of what a good wife should be. In fact she's traditionally viewed as a virgin. She is not elevated above her husband, she is the other half of his whole. She is still bound to the role of a traditional wife. Albeit more.... Ferocious lol

In Devi worship a male should always be sure to tap into their latent feminity (female energy) in order to properly approach Ma. There are probably more females in prominent religious positions in Devi sects though.
I know the belief that to anger a female is to incur the wrath of Ma Kali or Durga Ma is particularly common among the Devi Bhaktas though.
I don't bind Kali to anything and I do view Her as above Shiva. This is how She has revealed Herself to me, at least.
 
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