Srimad Bhagavatam Verse 4.29.2b

[Sirona]

Namaste,

I am currently reading the Srimad Bhagavatam. Yesterday I came across a verse I found noteworthy (4.29.2b):

"Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. That is the secret understanding in all Vedic literature."

Please comment.

 

[DeviChaaya]

It can be taken as an endorsement of Shankara's advaita philosophy. 'Everything that happens is Maya (illusion/dream)' for example.

 

[Terese]

Fantastic that you made a thread about the Srimad Bhagavatam! I believe it means anything that is under the influence of time is not real, as in it is a sort of "shadow" of ourselves. Beyond time, is the Supreme Brahman, doer of everything, and it is the spiritual world that is real, not the material world (being influenced by time).

People are born, and people die, but this is not our true nature, but our dreamish selves. Our true nature is the atman residing in our bodies, which is endless, infinite, and indestructible.

 

[Shantanu]

The implication is not to take the universe seriously as it is only an illusion, a dream. This is why I like @Aupmanyav philosophy of 'Paramarthika'. Of course I differ from him in that I know in 'Vyvaharika' God (and other deities) exist and this can be ascertained by a simple technique. But when all is said and done do not take life seriously is the lesson of this Verse.

 

[निताइ dasa]

Well, what I think it means that everything is a dream in the sense in that it is temporary and causes illusion not that it is an illusion (just as a dream is temporary and falsely deludes one into thinking that what is inside it is true knowledge, but it is infact not; so the Maya and the 3 Guna delude us into conceptions of "I" and "mine" instead of "Him"(the Lord) and "His".)

What I don't think it implies is that the everything is false (which would be in agreement with of Shankara) because I believe that Maya is an ontological true substance in Srimad Bhagavatam (it is the Shakti of the Lord) that undergoes periods of manifestation. Whenever the Bhagavatam talks about real and unreal, I think its talking about it in the sense of eternal and temporary.

 

[Shantanu]

Well, what I think it means that everything is a dream in the sense in that it is temporary and causes illusion not that it is an illusion (just as a dream is temporary and falsely deludes one into thinking that what is inside it is true knowledge, but it is infact not; so the Maya and the 3 Guna delude us into conceptions of "I" and "mine" instead of "Him"(the Lord) and "His".)

What I don't think it implies is that the everything is false (which would be in agreement with of Shankara) because I believe that Maya is an ontological true substance in Srimad Bhagavatam (it is the Shakti of the Lord) that undergoes periods of manifestation. Whenever the Bhagavatam talks about real and unreal, I think its talking about it in the sense of eternal and temporary.

It is interesting what you say that Maya is the true ontological substance of the Lord, in other words His creative powers that manifests itself in the reality that we perceive and live in, the illusion of Vyvaharika that we have to contend with. The absolute reality or 'Parmarthika' would therefore be composed of Brahman (energy), Maya and Paramatman. His universe under His control. He creates the illusion in other words.

 

[ajay0]

The absolute reality or 'Parmarthika' would therefore be composed of Brahman (energy), Maya and Paramatman. His universe under His control. He creates the illusion in other words.

Brahman is pure consciousness correctly speaking, not energy which is a manifestation.


Prajnanam Brahma. (Aitareya Upanishad 3.1.3) -- "Brahman is pure consciousness."


Matter, energy, space, time and causation fall under the domain of Prakriti .

Maya is to see them as absolute reality (Paramarthika) when it is but relative reality. ( Vyavaharika )

 

[निताइ dasa]

It is interesting what you say that Maya is the true ontological substance of the Lord, in other words His creative powers that manifests itself in the reality that we perceive and live in, the illusion of Vyvaharika that we have to contend with. The absolute reality or 'Parmarthika' would therefore be composed of Brahman (energy), Maya and Paramatman. His universe under His control. He creates the illusion in other words.

That's a really interpretation that I would be inclined to agree with.

 

[Shantanu]

Brahman is pure consciousness correctly speaking, not energy which is a manifestation.


Prajnanam Brahma. (Aitareya Upanishad 3.1.3) -- "Brahman is pure consciousness."


Matter, energy, space, time and causation fall under the domain of Prakriti .

Maya is to see them as absolute reality (Paramarthika) when it is but relative reality. ( Vyavaharika )

When we look at the universe scientifically all that we see is matter which is composed of atoms which is interchangeable with energy in energy mass equivalence.
Mass–energy equivalence - Wikipedia.
I do not know what it means by saying that everything is consciousness.

 

[ajay0]

When we look at the universe scientifically all that we see is matter which is composed of atoms which is interchangeable with energy in energy mass equivalence.

This is vyavaharika reality. Maya is to mistake the everchanging Vyavaharika or relative reality for Paramarthika ( absolute) reality.

I do not know what it means by saying that everything is consciousness.

You can understand this Upanishadic saying, in Satsang or holy company with enlightened ones.

This is why in the Yoga Vasistha, Rishi Vasistha states to Rama that Satsang is an important path for attaining liberation or enlightenment.

 

[ajay0]

Namaste,

I am currently reading the Srimad Bhagavatam. Yesterday I came across a verse I found noteworthy (4.29.2b):

"Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. That is the secret understanding in all Vedic literature."

Please comment.

All activities of Prakriti takes place on the substratum of pure consciousness. The enlightened sage is able to perceive this fact for himself and identifies with pure consciousness, while the ignorant mistakes Prakriti and time for reality and identifies with it, resulting in Maya, delusion and suffering.

 

[Shantanu]

You can understand this Upanishadic saying, in Satsang or holy company with enlightened ones.

If I thought that understanding that everything is consciousness would bring food to my belly or help me withstand my enemies I would go and find that Satsang - the holy company of enlightened ones.

 

[ajay0]

If I thought that understanding that everything is consciousness would bring food to my belly or help me withstand my enemies I would go and find that Satsang - the holy company of enlightened ones.

If you are dealing with food for the belly, medicine to take care of poor health or withstanding your 'enemies', focus on that and take care of it.

If you want to remove a bad tooth, go to a dentist. If you want wisdom and truth and correct perception, go and find Satsang amidst enlightened ones.

Don't mix up the two.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. That is the secret understanding in all Vedic literature." Please comment.

Do Vedas say that? perhaps in the later literature. Dream is not RigVedic thought.

What I don't think it implies is that the everything is false (which would be in agreement with of Shankara) ..

Greetings, Nitai Brother. Sankar does except 'Vyavaharika', which too is a reality, but of a lower order. He ran when an elephant charged towards him. Depends on the context.

Matter, energy, space, time and causation fall under the domain of Prakriti.
Maya is to see them as absolute reality (Paramarthika) when it is but relative reality (Vyavaharika).

That makes two. That is Samkhya and not 'Advaita'.
You are defining Brahman (Absolute reality) which you say is 'neti-neti'.

 

[Shantanu]

If you are dealing with food for the belly, medicine to take care of poor health or withstanding your 'enemies', focus on that and take care of it.

If you want to remove a bad tooth, go to a dentist. If you want wisdom and truth and correct perception, go and find Satsang amidst enlightened ones.

Don't mix up the two.

I will mix up the two for what good is that kind of enlightenment which does not aid your personal survival in this life? That is my meaning of advaita: concept for total union.

 

[ajay0]

That makes two. That is Samkhya and not 'Advaita'.
You are defining Brahman (Absolute reality) which you say is 'neti-neti'.

I stated the changeful Prakriti from the Sankhyan context and the illusory Maya from the Advaitan context. I defined Maya, not Brahman here.

I will mix up the two for what good is that kind of enlightenment which does not aid your personal survival in this life? That is my meaning of advaita: concept for total union.

If you want food for your belly, you go to a grocer. If you want a tattoo on your belly , you go to a tattoo artist. Why do you have to bother an enlightened sage with all this !

Go to an enlightened sage for wisdom and correct perception, a grocer for food, and a tattoo artist for a tattoo, a dentist for tooth decay and to the police for taking care of your perceived 'enemies'. It is as simple as that.

If you go to a dentist or tattoo artist for enlightenment or wisdom, I am not sure that they may oblige you.

 

[ajay0]

Namaste,

I am currently reading the Srimad Bhagavatam. Yesterday I came across a verse I found noteworthy (4.29.2b):

"Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. That is the secret understanding in all Vedic literature."

Please comment.

Thank you for putting this wise saying here. Here is a similar Vedic saying...

Brihadaranyaka: 4.7: The Self, pure awareness, shines as the light within the heart, surrounded by the senses. Only seeming to think, seeming to move, the Self neither sleeps nor wakes nor dreams.


As the above Vedic teaching implies, the Self is not bound by dreams or the activities of Maya. Whatever happens in the domain of the changeful prakriti as marked by time, energy, matter, space and causation is thus seen as a transitory dream, as it occurs on the substratum of the unchangeful Self or pure consciousness.

 

[atanu]

When we look at the universe scientifically all that we see is matter which is composed of atoms which is interchangeable with energy in energy mass equivalence.
Mass–energy equivalence - Wikipedia.
I do not know what it means by saying that everything is consciousness.

Is this satya advaita?

 

[Shantanu]

Is this satya advaita?

Seek the truth with as much hard scientific evidence and then look beyond it by practicing oneness with truth or reality that you have come to know (truth accommodation). This approach may lead you to find God and by truth accommodation you will surrender to Him for advaita. If you do not find God, you will remain a satya-advaitic atheist. No problem with that. Truth accommodation leads to basic survival.

 

[Shantanu]

Why do you have to bother an enlightened sage with all this !

You are glorifying people who have given up on life and dwelling in another world.