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Star of Bethlehem

Ringer

Jar of Clay
I saw a DVD last night dealing with the Star of Bethlehem. I never really gave much thought to the star but after watching the DVD, I have found it fascinating how the bible contains clues to this phenomena. With our ability to rewind time and look at the sky as it would have looked thousands of years ago, we can have a clearer understanding of the Star of Bethlehem and treat it as natural occurance and not as Christian mythology. Anyway, I'll post the link so you can check it out for yourself. I would encourage anyone to watch the DVD whether you are a Christian of not because it's pretty interesting to see what we can do with this kind of computer software. I have this in the debate section because I'm sure some kind of debate will come from it.

Star of Bethlehem

Enjoy!
 

crystalonyx

Well-Known Member
I saw a DVD last night dealing with the Star of Bethlehem. I never really gave much thought to the star but after watching the DVD, I have found it fascinating how the bible contains clues to this phenomena. With our ability to rewind time and look at the sky as it would have looked thousands of years ago, we can have a clearer understanding of the Star of Bethlehem and treat it as natural occurance and not as Christian mythology. Anyway, I'll post the link so you can check it out for yourself. I would encourage anyone to watch the DVD whether you are a Christian of not because it's pretty interesting to see what we can do with this kind of computer software. I have this in the debate section because I'm sure some kind of debate will come from it.

Star of Bethlehem

Enjoy!

Since stars, like the sun and moon, move through the sky as the earth rotates on its axis, its rather ludicrous to think even a bright star could "point" to any one location, particularly with pinpoint accuracy (with the possible exception of the north star).
This is one story that I would definitely put in the "myth" status.
 

Ringer

Jar of Clay
Since stars, like the sun and moon, move through the sky as the earth rotates on its axis, its rather ludicrous to think even a bright star could "point" to any one location, particularly with pinpoint accuracy (with the possible exception of the north star).
This is one story that I would definitely put in the "myth" status.

Then you didn't understand anything the site had to offer. I would suggest reading it through before making a comment such as this one.
 

w00t

Active Member
But the nativity story is highly unlikely to have happened as reported in the Bible, so if there was a very bright star it doesn't mean it had any significance to the birth of Jesus. It was probably just added into the story to give added colour!
 

Ringer

Jar of Clay
But the nativity story is highly unlikely to have happened as reported in the Bible, so if there was a very bright star it doesn't mean it had any significance to the birth of Jesus. It was probably just added into the story to give added colour!

If you believed in the OT prophesies then a bright "star" at that location would have had significance. There were conditions that would have had to have been met in order to stir the magi into looking for the prophesized Messiah. I believe the site gives some compelling arguments as to why what was happening in the sky was enough for them to begin their search.
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
I saw a DVD last night dealing with the Star of Bethlehem. I never really gave much thought to the star but after watching the DVD, I have found it fascinating how the bible contains clues to this phenomena. With our ability to rewind time and look at the sky as it would have looked thousands of years ago, we can have a clearer understanding of the Star of Bethlehem and treat it as natural occurance and not as Christian mythology. Anyway, I'll post the link so you can check it out for yourself. I would encourage anyone to watch the DVD whether you are a Christian of not because it's pretty interesting to see what we can do with this kind of computer software. I have this in the debate section because I'm sure some kind of debate will come from it.

Star of Bethlehem

Enjoy!
I'm unable to view this on my computer but I have always had questions about the star. For example why, when the maji saw the star in the west (they came from the east, Babylon) was it called the Star in the East. Also how could a star move in order to guide the maji? My conclusion is that the star was an angel and it's name was "The star in the East."
 

crystalonyx

Well-Known Member
I saw a DVD last night dealing with the Star of Bethlehem. I never really gave much thought to the star but after watching the DVD, I have found it fascinating how the bible contains clues to this phenomena. With our ability to rewind time and look at the sky as it would have looked thousands of years ago, we can have a clearer understanding of the Star of Bethlehem and treat it as natural occurance and not as Christian mythology. Anyway, I'll post the link so you can check it out for yourself. I would encourage anyone to watch the DVD whether you are a Christian of not because it's pretty interesting to see what we can do with this kind of computer software. I have this in the debate section because I'm sure some kind of debate will come from it.

Star of Bethlehem

Enjoy!

THis sight is so unscientific its barely worth reading. There is no hard evidence whatsoever that the supposed man/Jesus even existed, more or less fulfilled the tales told in the NT gospels.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
THis sight is so unscientific its barely worth reading. There is no hard evidence whatsoever that the supposed man/Jesus even existed, more or less fulfilled the tales told in the NT gospels.

It's just propoganda.
 

Quath

Member
I think the early Christians did a lot of filler stories to make Jesus fit in better with the Old Testament and with pagan views of what a god-like person should be. So I think the whole birth stories were made up.
 

Ringer

Jar of Clay
For example why, when the maji saw the star in the west (they came from the east, Babylon) was it called the Star in the East.

Hopefully this answers your question:
When the wise men said "we saw his star in the east," they didn't mean "we saw his star while we were in the East." The Greek text here says the Star was "en anatole," meaning they saw his star rising in the east. That's what all but polar stars do, because of the rotation of the Earth. Stars rise in the east, but not all celestial objects do that. So, that's another qualification for the Star: 4) it must rise in the east like most other stars.

Also how could a star move in order to guide the maji?

Jupiter glides slowly past Regulus about every 12 years. Let's assume our magus enjoyed a 50-year career, say from age 20 to age 70. We don't know how old the Magi were, but if our man was in the second half of his career, he might have seen such a pass two or three times before. Jupiter's orbit wobbles relative to Regulus, so not every conjunction is as close as the one he saw in 3 BC. Perhaps our magus recorded this event with some interest, but it is hard to imagine great excitement. Not from this alone. But, of course, there is more.

The planets move against the field of fixed stars. From Earth, they appear to be "active." For example, were you to watch Jupiter each night for several weeks, you would see that it moves eastward through the starry field. Each night Jupiter rises in the east (satisfying a second Star qualification). Each night it appears to be slightly farther east in the field of fixed stars. All of the planets move like this.
But the wandering stars exhibit another, stranger motion. Periodically, they appear to reverse course and move backward through the other stars. This may seem odd, but the reason is simple enough: we watch the planets from a moving platform—Earth—hurtling around the Sun in its own orbit. When you pass a car on the freeway, it appears to go backward as it drops behind. For similar reasons, when the Earth in its orbit swings past another planet, that planet appears to move backward against the starry field. Astronomers call this optical effect retrograde motion.

In 3/2 BC, Jupiter's retrograde wandering would have called for our magus' full attention. After Jupiter and Regulus had their kingly encounter, Jupiter continued on its path through the star field. But then it entered retrograde. It "changed its mind" and headed back to Regulus for a second conjunction. After this second pass it reversed course again for yet a third rendezvous with Regulus, a triple conjunction. A triple pass like this is more rare. Over a period of months, our watching magus would have seen the Planet of Kings dance out a halo above the Star of Kings. A coronation.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
The wise men would have been complete morons to mistake a planet for a star.
 

Ringer

Jar of Clay
THis sight is so unscientific its barely worth reading. There is no hard evidence whatsoever that the supposed man/Jesus even existed, more or less fulfilled the tales told in the NT gospels.

That is not the purpose of this site. The site and those affiliated with it are attempting to shed light on the Star of Bethlehem and give what they believe shows factual evidence to the Star. Whether or not you believe the prophesies of the OT were filled based on these occurances is a completely different matter.
 

tomspug

Absorbant
Hmm, I'll summarize what I read on the site for those that can't view it:

For anything to be classified as 'the star of Bethlehem', it had to meet a very strict and specific criteria (if you believe the Biblical account to be accurate, which sounds reasonable, since its historical truth is on trial).

  1. It signified birth.
  2. It signified kingship.
  3. It had a connection with the Jewish nation.
  4. It rose in the east, like other stars.
  5. It appeared at a precise time.
  6. Herod didn't know when it appeared.
  7. It endured over time.
  8. It was ahead of the Magi as they went south from Jerusalem to Bethlehem.
  9. It stopped over Bethlehem.
Basically, the argument is that the Star of Bethlehem was actually 'Jupiter', which by historical standards was still classified as a 'star' at the time. The movement of Jupiter would reflect a movement from east to west (which is why the magi said they saw the star 'rising in the east'). A bunch of crazy planetary movement occurred at this time, which would have caught the attention of anyone looking for that sort of stuff. Jupiter "the king planet" effective passed over Regulus Rex "the king star", which is part of the constellation Leo "the Lion". After passing over Regulus, Earth's planetary revolution passed Jupiter's, causing retrograde motion. In other words, Jupiter stopped, and passed back through Regulus AGAIN. Then, resuming course, Jupiter passed through Regulus a THIRD time. Following behind the constellation Leo following the Earth's rotation is the constellation Virgo (the Virgin). These astronomical events might have prompted the magi to 'follow' the star closely in their observations.

The actual Star of Bethlehem phenomenon which indicated the birth of Christ was actually nine months later, when Jupiter passed over Venus, which is considered by astronomists as one of the most spectatical events visible from earth. This event might have caused the magi to make their way to Jerusalem. Keep in mind that this all happened between 3 and 2 B.C.

Finally, another retrograde motion of Jupiter occurred later, which might have given the appearance that the star had effectively 'stopped' when they made their way south towards Bethlehem.

I'm merely summarizing. Their analysis is a huge and thorough investigation worth reading. It doesn't make any assumptions, merely observations of things known to have happened.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
  1. It signified birth.
  2. It signified kingship.
  3. It had a connection with the Jewish nation.
  4. It rose in the east, like other stars.
  5. It appeared at a precise time.
  6. Herod didn't know when it appeared.
  7. It endured over time.
  8. It was ahead of the Magi as they went south from Jerusalem to Bethlehem.
  9. It stopped over Bethlehem.
I suggest we add #10 -

10. It was a star
 

Hope

Princesinha
The wise men would have been complete morons to mistake a planet for a star.

Or perhaps you are simply being too literal and nitpicky. ;)

Are we all morons for calling Venus the "morning star"? I hardly think so.

I thought the read was fascinating. Some of it might be a stretch, but it's fascinating nonetheless. In modern times, when lights and pollution mar our view of and appreciation for the night sky, it's easy to dismiss the knowledge that ancient people possessed in regards to astronomy. I think in some respects they knew far more than we do.
 
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