Stars rotating around planets

[shunyadragon]

What is very unlikely? I think you would agree that all planets are born around stars.

It is very very unlikely that a planet will go from one solar system to another.If a planet loses its star, mostly likely it is a catastrophic event like the star is destroyed.

I think you would agree that sometimes a planet can be knocked out of its orbit.

Actually no, the gravity of the star remains the closest most dominant source of gravity. The planets may change orbit if impacted by another planet, but they all remain orbiting the sun as actually is known to happen in our solar system.

Eons after getting knocked out of its orbit it could be drifting around our galaxy attracted primarily by the gravity of the center of the universe.
-or-
Eons after getting knocked out of its orbit it could be drifting around our galaxy attracted ever so slightly by the gravity of a star that it has come "near".

At this point, in both instances, wouldn't you classify the planet as a "rogue"? If not, why not?

Planets do not simply get 'knocked' out of orbit. The star usually will eject or destroy the planet(s) into small pieces like asteroids when the star explodes. The Oumuamua asteroid may such a fragment.

Again the only specific point here is that rogue planets orbit the galactic center. There are no known rogue planets that do not orbit the galactic center. Their path may be deflected by stars. I have difficulty dealing with hypothetical arguments of what might happen.

To get a comparison of the difference in mass and the effect of gravity. The comparison of suns and planets is little more than dust in our solar system comparing them to the mass of our black hole with the sun.

 

[Shad]

Planets do not simply get 'knocked' out of orbit. The star usually will eject or destroy the planet(s) into small pieces like asteroids when the star explodes. The Oumuamua asteroid may such a fragment.

The use of "knocked" is used for laymen to simplify an event that is complex due to the physics and math involved. A lot of public science magazines do this in order to communicate ideas without scaring people away with technical jargon. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Polymath257]

What is very unlikely? I think you would agree that all planets are born around stars.

I think you would agree that sometimes a planet can be knocked out of its orbit.

Very rare, but possible. The reason it is rare is that the escape velocity is always about 40% more than the orbital velocity. So, for a collision to throw a planet out of the system it is in, there has to be a very large transfer of energy. That amount of energy tends to completely fragment the planet and even so, only a very small number of fragments will get the energy required to escape their system. Most will continue to orbit the star as asteroids.

Eons after getting knocked out of its orbit it could be drifting around our galaxy attracted primarily by the gravity of the center of the universe.
-or-
Eons after getting knocked out of its orbit it could be drifting around our galaxy attracted ever so slightly by the gravity of a star that it has come "near".

The 'gravity center of the universe' suggests a few misunderstandings. If you have a fragment that has reached escape velocity for its star, it is still unlikely to have the escape velocity of the galaxy. And that means it will orbit in the galaxy as a whole, like all the stars do.

Now, the path will tend to be because of the 'average' attraction of all the stars in the galaxy (and the dark matter). It is essentially impossible for a star to 'capture' a rogue planet because the path of such would be a hyperbola through the system unless that rogue planet just happens to hit another planet while in the system---incredibly unlikely.

At this point, in both instances, wouldn't you classify the planet as a "rogue"? If not, why not?

Yes, it would be a rogue planet *and* it would be orbiting the galaxy. It is very unlikely that it would escape the gravity of the galaxy.

 

[Cooky]

I think the point we're wondering here is if a planet sized body of mass will be trapped by a galaxies center..? Or will it ricochet and simply have it's path altered at a high rate of speed...?

...But as @Polymath257 pointed out, it would never happen to begin with.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

nope.....fission is what an Abomb does

the atoms are split

fusion crushes the hydrogen to another hydrogen nuclei
the stripped electrons move to the surface of the sphere really really fast

the hydrogen becomes deuterium
that becomes tritium
that becomes helium
and so on

eventually, if the mass was great enough in the first place....
iron is formed
the last element the star can make and remain stable

after that......if the fusion continues.....
the star will shudder and collapse
the sudden scrunch will produce heavy atoms
and the star will 'pop'

much of what we are here on this planet was formed
looooooong before the solar system gelled

we are star dust

*sigh*. Reading comprehension issue(s) with something I wrote? again?

 

[shunyadragon]

I think the point we're wondering here is if a planet sized body of mass will be trapped by a galaxies center..? Or will it ricochet and simply have it's path altered at a high rate of speed...?

...But as @Polymath257 pointed out, it would never happen to begin with.

Gravity rules! The universe is not a pinball machine. Celestial bodies don't wander around and bounce off each other. The difference between the mass of black holes, stars and planets is immense and the greater the mass the more dominant the celestial body, and black holes dominate. The Black Hole at the center of our universe is so proportional massive it dominates everything.

 

[Vinayaka]

And here I thought the sun was going around us all this time. It comes up in the east, goes down in the west, takes 12 hours to pass by the other side of the planet, and then repeats itself.

 

[shunyadragon]

And here I thought the sun was going around us all this time. It comes up in the east, goes down in the west, takes 12 hours to pass by the other side of the planet, and then repeats itself.

Some string have to be attached for this to work.

 

[Thief]

I have difficulty dealing with hypothetical arguments of what might happen.

we've noticed

and sooooo much of what we claim to know cannot be proven
our lives are far too short to witness the evidence

but we have definitions

planets orbit stars
when they don't.....they are rogue

just another clump of stuff......wandering about

so what if the clump stays in this galaxy?
if the path is not to an elipse…...it's not an orbit

if the path is to an ever expanding spiral......that planet is on it's way......gone
rogue
very rogue

 

[Cooky]

Once you've spiraled beyond 90°, you've entered the path of no return. Or should I say, constant returns..?

 

[shunyadragon]

Very rare, but possible. The reason it is rare is that the escape velocity is always about 40% more than the orbital velocity. So, for a collision to throw a planet out of the system it is in, there has to be a very large transfer of energy. That amount of energy tends to completely fragment the planet and even so, only a very small number of fragments will get the energy required to escape their system. Most will continue to orbit the star as asteroids.



The 'gravity center of the universe' suggests a few misunderstandings. If you have a fragment that has reached escape velocity for its star, it is still unlikely to have the escape velocity of the galaxy. And that means it will orbit in the galaxy as a whole, like all the stars do.

Now, the path will tend to be because of the 'average' attraction of all the stars in the galaxy (and the dark matter). It is essentially impossible for a star to 'capture' a rogue planet because the path of such would be a hyperbola through the system unless that rogue planet just happens to hit another planet while in the system---incredibly unlikely.




Yes, it would be a rogue planet *and* it would be orbiting the galaxy. It is very unlikely that it would escape the gravity of the galaxy.

What you call very unlikely in the above is virtually impossible considering proportional mass of the galactic center and the object you consider may escape. You could demonstrate this with math, but I do not believe this is worth it.

Many stars are likely to have with large or even larger planet like Jupiter, or even some are binary with a small sun. When they go critical and explode these large planets are pitched out, and this is the type of planet most rogue planets we have found.

 

[shunyadragon]

so what if the clump stays in this galaxy?
if the path is not to an elipse…...it's not an orbit.

The observed path and trajectory of all rogue planets is an orbit around the galactic center, and likely to a degree elliptical.

if the path is to an ever expanding spiral......that planet is on it's way......gone
rogue very rogue

This has never been observed, and many rogue planets have been observed with an orbit, because of the mass of the black hole at the center of the galaxy will prevent any sun, nor rogue planet from escaping the galaxy. In reality it is more likely that they may spiral inward. This is the science.

 

[Cooky]

What you call very unlikely in the above is virtually impossible considering proportional mass of the galactic center and the object you consider may escape. You could demonstrate this with math, but I do not believe this is worth it.

Many stars are likely to have with large or even larger planet like Jupiter, or even some are binary with a small sun. When they go critical and explode these large planets are pitched out, and this is the type of planet most rogue planets we have found.

What about a quasar beam? From a black hole at about 800 million solar masses?

Does it return?

 

[Vinayaka]

Some string have to be attached for this to work.

But where would you attach it? Wouldn't it start burning on the sun's end?

 

[shunyadragon]

What about a quasar beam? From a black hole at about 800 million solar masses?

Does it return?

Quasars emit intense (beams?) of light. Light photons does not have mass. and the light emitted by quasars do not return, We see the intense light and electromagnetic radiation of thousands of quasars in our universe. Quasars are generated by a black hole at the center of a quasar. I guess quasars may be described as intensely active black holes, or in colliding galaxies. It is theorized that when the Andromeda galaxy collides with our galaxy it will produce a super quasar.

Side note: Black holes have masses of millions to billions times that of suns that is why black hole gravity rules in galaxies. The gravity of black holes is so strong it leads to the collision of galaxies originally millions of light years away.

There are also formations of galaxies called super clusters where galaxies are migrating to and orbiting the super cluster center over hundreds of light years. Our galaxy is a part of the Shapley Supercluster.

 

[shunyadragon]

But where would you attach it? Wouldn't it start burning on the sun's end?

super strings!

 

[Thief]

I for one do not believe galaxies are a closed set of objects

 

[shunyadragon]

I for one do not believe galaxies are a closed set of objects

First, claims of 'belief' do not stand the test of the evidence. Second, they are not closed set of objects (?) they are part of the greater universe and interact with each other by the attractive force of gravity over hundreds of millions of light years distance, because of their huge mass.

 

[Thief]

First, claims of 'belief' do not stand the test of the evidence. Second, they are not closed set of objects (?) they are part of the greater universe and interact with each other by the attractive force of gravity over hundreds of millions of light years distance, because of their huge mass.

so there is give and take......of rogue planets

 

[shunyadragon]

so there is give and take......of rogue planets

I am not sure what your point here is. My last post you responded to did not deal with rogue planets. Rogue planets simple orbit the galactic center like everything else, and nothing leaves the galaxy nor goes form galaxy to galaxy because of the gravitational attraction due to the huge mass of the black hole.

My previous point was galaxies are not totally independent, They do relate through gravitational attraction of hundreds of light years distance, and they do collide and merge into a larger galaxy. They are related in super clusters in the local region of the universe.