Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Look God has given to those to know the difference between what is spiritual and what is not spiritual.
It's evidence you have no clue or idea what is spiritual and what is not spiritual.
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State of the Dead
- Thread starter Faithofchristian
- Start date
Look God has given to those to know the difference between what is spiritual and what is not spiritual.
It's evidence you have no clue or idea what is spiritual and what is not spiritual.
Yes, the positioning of that comma is left up to the interpreter, isn't it. So then, we need to follow context. Jesus was "in Hell" for 3 days (Psalms 16:10; Luke 24:5-7), so Jesus couldn't have meant that day the evildoer would be with him.
Actually, the answer is simple. According to Genesis 2:7, just read it....was Adam given a soul, or did he "become" a soul, once life was 'blown' into him? So, a person is a soul, he doesn't have one. And the spirit (ruach, breath) is the force keeping us alive , much the same as electricity, that makes a stereo or lightbulb 'come to life'. But turn it off, and the appliance dies. -- Psalms 146:3-4
but in this incarnation the body is a tomb, a temple made of earth. jesus was speaking to people about earthly things.
John 3:12
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Cryptic. Pertinent ?
shmogie
Well-Known Member
I have eight English translations, and have checked four. They are evenly divided between became a living soul and became a living person, and living human, I will check the others. So, without the breath of life, the soul dies when the person dies ? Dead like the unplugged dishwasher ?
Eloquently but cryptically put. If the spirit of life makes a person a living soul, and he is immortal, why does he die, and is bifurcated into two, one alive and one dead ?
you used the idea of righteousness and a house. its based off of karma, or works.
here is a scenario where the house/tree was not aware of the omnipresence of god but had good works, fruit.
Matthew 25:37-39
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38. When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39. When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
socharlie
Active Member
coming out of the dead
24for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again Luke 15
42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. 1 Cor 15
14But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 1 Cor 15
The Hebrew word for 'soul' is 'nephesh', translated variously "creature (at Genesis 1:20)", or "person", or "human", always means a breathing creature. But Genesis 2:7 always says 'Adam became a soul'; he wasn't given one. That understanding comes from pagan Greek views, furthered by Plato.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
That doesnt answer the question. Sounds more like defensiveness.
What is positive about seeing people spiritually dead to where you only see the enlightened but see the dead lost? What is the benefit to thinking that way?
Since the soul is the person, i.e., the creature, i.e., the human.... yes, the soul dies. And the Bible agrees: Ezekiel 18:4
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Yes, but others will come to him at the end and ask him in the end to look at the wonder works they have done in his name, he tells them to get away from him. Works are not brownie points to esrn salvation, they are the natural result of one who has d]salvation by faith. sola fide
faith alone won't get you anywhere, or anything. jesus wasn't about his father's faith. nor will claiming things in the name equate to works.
31 “Which of the two did what his father wanted?”
“The first,” they answered.
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
lip service is not actually service, or a work. lip service is empty words with no substance. like promising a cup of water and never providing a cup of water.
I quoted the old testament simple as that. I believe, I don't believe, I am agnostic are all mentally dysfunctional. In particular the topic God which obviously you are clueless about.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
What is Gods will ? According to John 3:16" For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten, so that whoever believes in him will not perish, but have eternal life." This is the ultimate gift of God, and you cannot earn it by doing good things. This is the entire purpose of the Gospel. The taxpayers and prostitutes don't enter because they opened a soup kitchen and slaved in it. they enter because they are forgiven and made new by faith in Christ's sacrifice for them, period. From this state will flow good works, kindness, love, empathy and the acts they do to relieve suffering. Most importantly they will share the good news of salvation. Good works will never earn your salvation they are evidence of your salvation,
to love is the will.
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
to believe isn't and never will be an advocation of idolatry, or anthropolatry.
idolatry is the abomination; which causes desolation. idolatry creates a distortion between self and other as self. love is not a respecter of persons.
james bond
Well-Known Member
>>F: Nope rather the soul and spirit being the same.<<
The spirit and the soul are used interchangeably in the Bible, but they aren't the same. The spirit is the energy or force that moves and drives the soul while the soul is the personality and life principle (that which gives us life) that distinguishes us from others. It will be part of the spirit and new resurrected body. What makes it difficult to understand is all three are not material. We understand energy and force in nature or the material world, but not in an immaterial sense.
>>F: The male and female were created on the 6th day
As for Adam was created on the day after the 7th day, which could be called the
8th day.<<
This makes no sense as to why Adam and Eve were the representatives of the human race. How did that happen?
Faithofchristian,
You have most of what the Bible teaches, but there is a couple of things that you have said that shows lack of full understanding of God’s message to mankind.
When the Holy Scriptures speak about death, and resurrection, it is true that spiritual death means that a person has not come into the grace of God, and has not accepted Jesus as the only way to Salvation. Much of this is explained at Ephesians 2:1-22, and Romans 5:1-11, Colossians 1:21-23. These Scriptures explain how a person comes to spiritual life. These ones who die will be resurrected, in what can be called the general resurrection, John 5:28,29, and Acts 24:14,15. These people will live forever on earth, just as Was the purpose of God, from the beginning,Genesis 1:26-31, Isaiah 45:18,19, Psalms 37:29, 115:15,16, Isaiah 14:24,26, 55:11, Revelation 21:1-5.
There is another resurrection, that takes place before the general resurrection, called The First Resurrection, Revelation 20:4-6, 2:11. As you can see in these verses, this group will rule over the earth, with Jesus, from heaven. The reason it says that the Second Death has no authority over them is because they are resurrected to heaven as spirit creatures, and immortal, 1Corinthians 15:51-54, Galatians 6:15, a New Creation, Called The Israel of God, Galatians 6:16.
Just like in any Kingdom there must be a King and subjects. There will be a great crowd that survives the Great Tribulation, and many millions resurrected to earth, Revelation 7:14. Then look back at Revelation 7:3,4, where 144,000 are mentioned. These are the ones of the First Resurrection, that will rule over the earth, with Jesus, The King of The Messianic Kingdom. This is the same group, called the Little Flock, by Jesus, Luke 12:32. The same as recorded at Revelation 20:4-6. Here the Bible mentions The Thousand Year Judgement Day. This will be a period in which all the ones who live through the Great Tribulation, and the resurrected ones will grow to perfection while making the earth a Prardise, in which they will live throughout all eternity.
Agape!!!
Baha'u'llah has answered your question;
"...He is indeed as one dead who, at the wondrous dawn of this Revelation, hath failed to be quickened by its soul-stirring breeze. He is indeed a captive who hath not recognized the Supreme Redeemer, but hath suffered his soul to be bound, distressed and helpless, in the fetters of his desires. O My servants! Whoso hath tasted of this Fountain hath attained unto everlasting Life, and whoso hath refused to drink therefrom is even as the dead..."
Baha'u'llah : Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah
Yes each day the Dead Bury more Dead. But yes it is the Spiritually Dead that do this. Flesh is not Life.
Baha'u'llah has provided the answer to this as well;
"...Incline your ears to the sweet melody of this Prisoner. Arise, and lift up your voices, that haply they that are fast asleep may be awakened. Say: O ye who are as dead! The Hand of Divine bounty proffereth unto you the Water of Life. Hasten and drink your fill. Whoso hath been re-born in this Day, shall never die; whoso remaineth dead, shall never live."
Baha'u'llah : Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah
Jesus Christ the Son has returned as the Father, life is now found in the Father, rejection of the Father is Death, Baha'u'llah again has supplied your answer;
"..The Word which the Son concealed is made manifest. It hath been sent down in the form of the human temple in this day. Blessed be the Lord Who is the Father! He, verily, is come unto the nations in His most great majesty. Turn your faces towards Him, O concourse of the righteous... This is the day whereon the Rock (Peter) crieth out and shouteth, and celebrateth the praise of its Lord, the All-Possessing, the Most High, saying: 'Lo! The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled!...' My body longeth for the cross, and Mine head waiteth the thrust of the spear, in the path of the All-Merciful, that the world may be purged from its transgressions...."
Baha'u'llah : The Proclamation of Baha'u'llah
This is the day promised by Christ. Life is now found in the Father. Baha'u'llah has again explained this in great detail, here is but one passage;
"...Such things have come to pass in the days of every Manifestation of God. Even as Jesus said: "Ye must be born again." [John 3:7] Again He saith: "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." [John 3:5-6]. The purport of these words is that whosoever in every dispensation is born of the Spirit and is quickened by the breath of the Manifestation of Holiness, he verily is of those that have attained unto "life" and "resurrection" and have entered into the "paradise" of the love of God. And whosoever is not of them, is condemned to "death" and "deprivation," to the "fire" of unbelief, and to the "wrath" of God. In all the scriptures, the books and chronicles, the sentence of death, of fire, of blindness, of want of understanding and hearing, hath been pronounced against those whose lips have tasted not the ethereal cup of true knowledge, and whose hearts have been deprived of the grace of the holy Spirit in their day. Even as it hath been previously recorded: "Hearts have they with which they understand not" [Qur'an 7:178].
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In another passage of the Gospel it is written: "And it came to pass that on a certain day the father of one of the disciples of Jesus had died. That disciple reporting the death of his father unto Jesus, asked for leave to go and bury him. Whereupon, Jesus, that Essence of Detachment, answered and said: "Let the dead bury their dead." [Luke 9:60]
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In like manner, two of the people of Kufih went to Ali, the Commander of the Faithful. One owned a house and wished to sell it; the other was to be the purchaser. They had agreed that this transaction should be effected and the contract be written with the knowledge of Ali. He, the exponent of the law of God, addressing the scribe, said: "Write thou: 'A dead man hath bought from another dead man a house. That house is bounded by four limits. One extendeth toward the tomb, the other to the vault of the grave, the third to the Sirat, the fourth to either Paradise or hell.'" Reflect, had these two souls been quickened by the trumpet-call of Ali, had they risen from the grave of error by the power of his love, the judgment of death would certainly not have been pronounced against them.
In every age and century, the purpose of the Prophets of God and their chosen ones hath been no other but to affirm the spiritual significance of the terms "life," "resurrection," and "judgment." If one will ponder but for a while this utterance of Ali in his heart, one will surely discover all mysteries hidden in the terms "grave," "tomb," "sirat," "paradise" and "hell." But oh! how strange and pitiful! Behold, all the people are imprisoned within the tomb of self, and lie buried beneath the nethermost depths of worldly desire! Wert thou to attain to but a dewdrop of the crystal waters of divine knowledge, thou wouldst readily realize that true life is not the life of the flesh but the life of the spirit. For the life of the flesh is common to both men and animals, whereas the life of the spirit is possessed only by the pure in heart who have quaffed from the ocean of faith and partaken of the fruit of certitude. This life knoweth no death, and this existence is crowned by immortality. Even as it hath been said: "He who is a true believer liveth both in this world and in the world to come." If by "life" be meant this earthly life, it is evident that death must needs overtake it.
Baha'u'llah : The Kitab-i-Iqan
Regards Tony