• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Strange Bible Verse

N0lyyfe

New Member
We all know that there are quite a few abnormal verses in the Bible, and that there are many odd claims about who will enter "the Kingdom of Heaven." However, this one caught my mind and I felt that it would lead to some interesting and informative discussion.

Deuteronomy 23:1

ESV

"No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord."

KJV

"He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD."

Does this really mean what I think it does? Because, if i remember correctly, one of the first recorded uses of Castrati was in 1599 by the Vatican. Wouldn't that mean condemning these boys to hell solely to improve their singing abilities?
 

esmith

Veteran Member
You appear to be misreading/interpreting this passage. It actual concerns restrictions on "access to Israels assembly. The national governing body or popular legislature was charged with a broad range of judicial, political, and policy matters (Judg 20.3). The same physiological qualification that the Holiness Collection requires of the priesthood (Lev 21:17-23) now extended to all Israel."
The above is directly quoted from the "New Oxford Annotated Bible New Standard Version".
 

N0lyyfe

New Member
Ah, thank you for clearing that up. That does cast the passage in a much less sinister light.
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
We all know that there are quite a few abnormal verses in the Bible, and that there are many odd claims about who will enter "the Kingdom of Heaven." However, this one caught my mind and I felt that it would lead to some interesting and informative discussion.

Deuteronomy 23:1

ESV

"No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord."

KJV

"He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD."

Does this really mean what I think it does? Because, if i remember correctly, one of the first recorded uses of Castrati was in 1599 by the Vatican. Wouldn't that mean condemning these boys to hell solely to improve their singing abilities?

You appear to be misreading/interpreting this passage. It actual concerns restrictions on "access to Israels assembly. The national governing body or popular legislature was charged with a broad range of judicial, political, and policy matters (Judg 20.3). The same physiological qualification that the Holiness Collection requires of the priesthood (Lev 21:17-23) now extended to all Israel."
The above is directly quoted from the "New Oxford Annotated Bible New Standard Version".


Actually, I have never heard the interpretation that the New Oxford Annoted Bible NSV makes there. But it doesn't mean castrati, either, not in the sense of the OP.

Traditionally, we have always understood that what this means is that someone with an injury or congenital deformity of the sexual organs making them sterile and/or incontinent is not permitted to serve actively in the priesthood (when there was a Temple standing, or in the days of the Mishkan/tabernacle, of course), nor is such a person allowed to enter into the ritually pure precincts of the Temple or Mishkan [tabernacle].

There have been many hypotheses concerning the meaning or motivation behind this-- it is one of a lengthy list of physical injuries or deformities that restrict one from active service in the Temple priesthood, or from entering the ritually pure precincts of the Temple/Mishkan. The interpretation that has always made the most sense to me is that such injuries, lacking the treatments of modern medicine, when survived in ancient times, could often result in incontinence and/or discharges of fluids from the penis or urethra opening. Urine and all other fluids discharged through the penile opening are ritually impure; as the Temple/Mishkan was always kept in the highest possible state of ritual purity, it would have been inviting disaster to permit into the Temple/Mishkan precincts people who would be likely to render it ritually impure. For the same reason, those suffering death impurity, or recovering from tzara'at (a kind of skin ailment, often incorrectly translated as "leprosy"), or women bearing menstrual impurity or birth impurity were also not permitted in Temple/Mishkan precincts until they were ritually pure again.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
Decided to see what my JPS Study Bible has to say. Basically it says the same thing as the NRSV; However, it adds that "Thus covering any physical damage to the male genitalia" it also adds "eunuchs may be here excluded for reasons of the cultural association, since they served as officials in Near Eastern bureaucracies".
Not exactly sure what is meant by the comments about eunuchs. Does it mean that this prohibition does not pertain to eunuchs or that it also is a prohibition against eunuchs?
 
Last edited:

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
The commentaries I've read follow what Levite said; those who had deformities were barred from the priesthood.

Some of the authors said it is because only those who are whole can serve God. The same restrictions (having to be unblemished) applied to animals that were sacrificed.

Whether it is in offering or service, only the best is to brought before God.
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
Decided to see what my JPS Study Bible has to say. Basically it says the same thing as the NRSV; However, it adds that "Thus covering any physical damage to the male genitalia" it also adds "eunuchs may be here excluded for reasons of the cultural association, since they served as officials in Near Eastern bureaucracies".
Not exactly sure what is meant by the comments about eunuchs. Does it mean that this prohibition does not pertain to eunuchs or that it also is a prohibition against eunuchs?

It would be a reason explaining the prohibition on eunuchs of various kinds. But I think that is not a likely explanation. Deuteronomy and Leviticus both predate the involvement of the Jewish People with the major Near Eastern powers that most used eunuchs in bureaucracies. And if it really were about eunuchs in Near Eastern bureaucracies, then why all the other kinds of physical injury and deformity that are mentioned to exclude people from the holy precicints? And in any case, after the fall of the Second Temple, these rules were never again practically applied in Jewish society-- with the sole exception that kohanim (priests) who are known to have genital mutilations have been prohibited to give the priestly blessing in public, or to officiate at a ritual for the redemption of the firstborn son (pidyon ha-ben).

No, I think it more likely that this was never about eunuchs working for Near Eastern bureaucracies, and more likely that it was about some kind of perception of ritual purity and impurity in ancient times.
 
Hi there! This verse itself is not strange. It simply means that in the time of ancient Israel- the person who had some physical disabilities was not giving special privileges in the congregation of Israel people.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
It is not at all strange from an early culture that insisted that its sacrifices be without blemish. People often fear, denigrate, and reject what they don't understand.
 

drakonyx

Member
I'm personally glad we're more accepting of physical disabilities than they appear to have been back in the day.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
When the High Master hears of this, he will surely cut off your plargh and hand it to you!
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
We all know that there are quite a few abnormal verses in the Bible, and that there are many odd claims about who will enter "the Kingdom of Heaven." However, this one caught my mind and I felt that it would lead to some interesting and informative discussion.

Deuteronomy 23:1

ESV

"No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord."

KJV

"He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD."

Does this really mean what I think it does? Because, if i remember correctly, one of the first recorded uses of Castrati was in 1599 by the Vatican. Wouldn't that mean condemning these boys to hell solely to improve their singing abilities?[/quote/]

Perhaps God wasn't pleased with other religions that performed castration and put in this rule to prevent it. That would put the church at odds with God but what else is new. Catholicism has had its problems which explains why the church needed a reformation.
 
Last edited:

waitasec

Veteran Member
We all know that there are quite a few abnormal verses in the Bible, and that there are many odd claims about who will enter "the Kingdom of Heaven." However, this one caught my mind and I felt that it would lead to some interesting and informative discussion.

Deuteronomy 23:1

ESV

"No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord."

KJV

"He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD."

Does this really mean what I think it does? Because, if i remember correctly, one of the first recorded uses of Castrati was in 1599 by the Vatican. Wouldn't that mean condemning these boys to hell solely to improve their singing abilities?

seemed to be common for someone to have their member be cut off or crushed. wonder if the invention of the jockstrap hard cup is out of line in the eyes of god?
:sarcastic
 
Top