Students Are Pushing Back Against Gender Ideology In Their Schools

[fantome profane]

Gee a lot of men have non-functioning nipples too. By your logic all people are females.

That is a really good point. From a strictly morphological stand point all human embryos start off female. So that does not mean that all people are female. But it could be argued that all males are trans males.

 

[Copernicus]

So you are stating there are no objective definitions. Congratulations. You have now ensured you are always wrong.

Technically, there aren't. Lexicographers depend on usage panels to get a consensus on how to word their definitions. Those definitions are not based on how the panel thinks the words ought to be used, but on how the panel thinks the words are normally used. There is nothing wrong with defining male and female in binary biological terms, since that captures normative usage. However, there are words like "hermaphrodite" and "intersex", which also have normative usage. That's why specialists who study gender attributes come up with all of those different words to describe people who don't fit the normative categories for male and female.

The issue here is how we are to deal with those cases that fall outside the norm in terms of social policy. Should our society try to exclude or ostracize them, or should it try to accommodate their needs in the same way that we accommodate the needs of other citizens? So far, at least, the majority of Americans have been moving in the direction of treating everyone equally and fairly, even if they have special needs that don't fit the norm. The principle that everyone is equal in the face of the law suggests that we have a government that is fair to everyone, including those who fall into minority categories.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Gee a lot of men have non-functioning nipples too. By your logic all people are females.

Non functioning nipple? What exactly is the function of a nipple?

 

[Copernicus]

A federal judge has now permanently struck down the Arkansas law discriminating against trans care for minors.

Judge strikes down Arkansas ban on transition care for minors​

A federal judge struck down an Arkansas law Tuesday that would have banned transition-related medical care for transgender minors, declaring it unconstitutional.

U.S. District Judge James Moody Jr. of the Eastern District of Arkansas overturned and permanently blocked the law from taking effect, writing that it violates the First Amendment and the equal protection and due process clauses of the 14th Amendment.

“Rather than protecting children or safeguarding medical ethics, the evidence showed that the prohibited medical care improves the mental health and well-being of patients and that, by prohibiting it, the State undermined the interests it claims to be advancing,” Moody wrote.

Republican governor Asa Hutchinson, a contender for the GOP presidential nomination, had vetoed the bill, but his legislature overrode his veto. This decision only applies to Arkansas, but it may apply to 19 other states that have similar laws.

 

[icehorse]

"Maybe the trans community wants acceptance, maybe they want to not be able to pee when they're out at the mall. Who's to say?"

Maybe the trans community is not a monolithic block that you can pigeon hole.

 

[We Never Know]

Well, let's see. The former involves an inanimate object that feels nothing. While the latter involves human beings who have human emotions and are affected by the way others treat them.

You seem to be more "butt hurt" over the former, but not so much about the latter. Perhaps you need to re-assess your priorities?

That inanimate object you're referring to means more to me than a just a piece of cloth. Lets forget my 21 years of service.
Twice a year, on memorial day and veteran's day I go decorate the graves of my dad, my uncle and my brother's with flags.

I have nothing more to say.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Maybe the trans community is not a monolithic block that you can pigeon hole.

Are the pigeon holes where you expect them to pee?

 

[We Never Know]

Unisex is definitely the answer. I think people tend to over complicate things that only require a simple solution.

Mr Rogers would make peoples heads explode today lol

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Mr Rogers would make peoples heads explode today lol

Fun fact: when Fred Rogers realized that there was something problematic or that could make a child feel bad in one of his old shows, he would re-shoot the scene in the same clothes and insert it into the old show to fix it.

If you want to tell yourself he wouldn't have done this for that song despite all the times that he fixed similarly problematic stuff, well, you go do that.

 

[We Never Know]

Fun fact: when Fred Rogers realized that there was something problematic or that could make a child feel bad in one of his old shows, he would re-shoot the scene in the same clothes and insert it into the old show to fix it.

If you want to tell yourself he wouldn't have done this for that song despite all the times that he fixed similarly problematic stuff, well, you go do that.

Your word is worse than Trumps IMO.
No supporting link, then it must be BS

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Your word is worse than Trumps IMO.
No supporting link, then it must be BS

Projecting a bit?

You need a link? Here you go:

As he often said, the outside world of the child changes, but the inside of the child never changes. So he thought his shows should play the same to two-year-olds now or 20 years ago. But as the years would go on, he would find things that had happened in old episodes that didn’t feel current, where maybe he used a pronoun “he” instead of “they” — or he met a woman and presumed that she was a housewife. So he would put on the same clothes and go back and shoot inserts and fix old episodes so that they felt as current as possible, so that he could stand by them 100 percent.

Mr. Rogers and Why Kind Men Freak Us Out

Could there be anybody dorkier than Fred Rogers? The creator and host of Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood, which debuted nationally in 1968 and introduced kids to...

melmagazine.com

 

[We Never Know]

Projecting a bit?

You need a link? Here you go:

Mr. Rogers and Why Kind Men Freak Us Out

Could there be anybody dorkier than Fred Rogers? The creator and host of Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood, which debuted nationally in 1968 and introduced kids to...

melmagazine.com

Where does it say...

"Fun fact: when Fred Rogers realized that there was something problematic or that could make a child feel bad in one of his old shows, he would re-shoot the scene in the same clothes and insert it into the old show to fix it."

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Where does it say...

"Fun fact: when Fred Rogers realized that there was something problematic or that could make a child feel bad in one of his old shows, he would re-shoot the scene in the same clothes and insert it into the old show to fix it."

If you aren't going to bother to read the quote, why try to reply?

 

[We Never Know]

If you aren't going to bother to read the quote, why try to reply?

Its a long link. Where does it say...

"when Fred Rogers realized that there was something problematic or that could make a child feel bad in one of his old shows, he would re-shoot the scene in the same clothes and insert it into the old show to fix it."

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Its a long link. Where does it say...

"when Fred Rogers realized that there was something problematic or that could make a child feel bad in one of his old shows, he would re-shoot the scene in the same clothes and insert it into the old show to fix it."

You weren't aware of how much of an emphasis Fred Rogers put on inclusion? Interesting.

Rogers was so meticulous in his process for translating ideas so they could be easily understood by children that a pair of writers on the show came up with a nine-step process that he used to translate from normal English into "Freddish", the special language he used when speaking to children.

1. "State the idea you wish to express as clearly as possible, and in terms preschoolers can understand." Example: It is dangerous to play in the street.​

​

2. "Rephrase in a positive manner," as in It is good to play where it is safe.​

​

3. "Rephrase the idea, bearing in mind that preschoolers cannot yet make subtle distinctions and need to be redirected to authorities they trust." As in, Ask your parents where it is safe to play.​

​

4. "Rephrase your idea to eliminate all elements that could be considered prescriptive, directive, or instructive." In the example, that'd mean getting rid of "ask": Your parents will tell you where it is safe to play.​

​

5. "Rephrase any element that suggests certainty." That'd be "will": Your parents can tell you where it is safe to play.​

​

6. "Rephrase your idea to eliminate any element that may not apply to all children." Not all children know their parents, so: Your favorite grown-ups can tell you where it is safe to play.​

​

7. "Add a simple motivational idea that gives preschoolers a reason to follow your advice." Perhaps: Your favorite grown-ups can tell you where it is safe to play. It is good to listen to them.​

​

8. "Rephrase your new statement, repeating the first step." "Good" represents a value judgment, so: Your favorite grown-ups can tell you where it is safe to play. It is important to try to listen to them.​

​

9. "Rephrase your idea a final time, relating it to some phase of development a preschooler can understand." Maybe: Your favorite grown-ups can tell you where it is safe to play. It is important to try to listen to them, and listening is an important part of growing.​

These are boss-level communication skills. Steps 6 & 8 are particularly thoughtful. Using language like "your favorite grown-ups" instead of "your parents" is often decried these days as politically correct nonsense but Rogers knew the power of caring language to include as many people as possible in the conversation.

Freddish, the special language Mister Rogers used when talking to children

Maxwell King, the former director of the Fred Rogers Center and author of the forthcoming book The Good Neighbor: The Life and Wor

kottke.org

 

[Kfox]

The worst? I can answer that.

If the people you are talking to don't know a certain individual is Trans, and you decide to reveal that because you insist on using the wrong pronoun, you could expose that person to someone who will commit an act of violence.

The worst thing that could happen is that you will expose that person to violence and that person could get killed.

Why would I tell anybody the person is trans? All I do is address everybody according to their biology; regardless of trans or not.

 

[Kfox]

Like at a truck stop? They rent out single unit showers for those who are traveling through. Those aren't classified for any gender.

No; like at a gym, or swimming pool

 

[Kfox]

I don't know. I was wondering what would be the worst that could happen if you were polite or kind to the people you talked to. In that case, the worst I can think of is that the other person would think you to be a nice person.

When I speak of someone according to their biology, I do it in a kind and polite way

 

[Kfox]

Right. So, what's the big issue then?

The big issue is I have the audacity to believe a biological male is still a man even if he thinks he is a woman.

 

[We Never Know]

You weren't aware of how much of an emphasis Fred Rogers put on inclusion? Interesting.

Freddish, the special language Mister Rogers used when talking to children

Maxwell King, the former director of the Fred Rogers Center and author of the forthcoming book The Good Neighbor: The Life and Wor

kottke.org

I'm still waiting for you too show me where it says your claim...

"when Fred Rogers realized that there was something problematic or that could make a child feel bad in one of his old shows, he would re-shoot the scene in the same clothes and insert it into the old show to fix it."


This is what it actually says, .....

he thought his shows should play the same to two-year-olds now or 20 years ago. But as the years would go on, he would find things that had happened in old episodes that didn’t feel current, where maybe he used a pronoun “he” instead of “they” — or he met a woman and presumed that she was a housewife. So he would put on the same clothes and go back and shoot inserts and fix old episodes so that they felt as current as possible, so that he could stand by them 100 percent. I’ve never heard of that happening — it’s kind

You added "that could make a child feel bad in one of his old shows he would re-shoot the scene in the same clothes and insert it into the old show to fix it." from your own words. Like I said, you are worse than Trump.