Students Are Pushing Back Against Gender Ideology In Their Schools

[Shadow Wolf]

You can't refute something so......
Change the subject!
Giving children puberty blockers and mutilating their bodies is wrong. It is evil.

No, denying medical treatment is what is evil. You don't know better than the experts, you don't know the patient, thus the only ethical position is for you to butt out, bugger off, get lost, and let those who are schooled, trained amd licensed in medicine practice and let patients needing treatment get treated.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The men and women (such as those who serve in the military) who have placed their lives on the line (and even died) to secure and safeguard our rights as American citizens are the reason we have freedom and liberty in America.

They haven't fought and died for us in a very long time. That just must be the national narrative because the truth is the military has been fighting for our freedoms to repress and kill people around the world and in doing so create our own worst enemies.
It is certainly true the no soldier killed in the line of duty has died for us in a very lomg time. At most they died for the West and Europe fighting against Nazis (but they weren't needed), but for us? I'd argue that hasn't been since the War of 1812.

 

[F1fan]

There were people holding a sign saying Antifa. What kinda evidence are you looking for?

Oh, kinda like how the far right says Jan 6 was a false flag operation by the left, and all the Trump flags in the chaos were part of the deception?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

The problem is, those people and groups who now want acceptance, are forcing their views on children who are young and innocent. They are too young to be a part of those you are accusing. You are now the bullies in real time, bullying any children who do not go along with your view. A religious child could be target in your world of bullies.

Promoting the view that people who don't conform to traditional sexual and gender roles should be treated as human is bullying?

This youth push back is healthy, since it is good for people; students to push against the system. It is not good for the system to push against the choices of the majority of students. They are the future and should not be pushed backwards by adults stuck in their own time warp.

And if the majority of students support progressive ideas? Would this still be something you agree with?

Trans was an option, but none of the options were granted center stage at the expense of others; pro nouns. That does not allow inclusion. This misunderstanding or con job came from the current older generation. It is designed to create division, which it did.

How do pronouns disallow inclusion?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

A person can have a desire to be called a particular pronoun but has no right to demand that others do so.

Isn't the stance of the anti-trans crowd that they should conform to binary pronouns based on what their genitals and/or genetics are? Isn't that demanding a use of a particular pronoun?

 

[Copernicus]

I think that flag burning is a perfectly valid form of free speech. My problem with it is that it is a very stupid tactic for someone who wants to promote a point of view, because it is intended to cause outrage rather than thought. There are more intelligent ways to get a point across. Burning Korans or Bibles is just as stupid, IMO. Excellent ways to provoke an angry rejection of whatever ideas the acts are intended to promote.

 

[Kfox]

They haven't fought and died for us in a very long time. That just must be the national narrative because the truth is the military has been fighting for our freedoms to repress and kill people around the world and in doing so create our own worst enemies.
It is certainly true the no soldier killed in the line of duty has died for us in a very lomg time. At most they died for the West and Europe fighting against Nazis (but they weren't needed), but for us? I'd argue that hasn't been since the War of 1812.

Hitler did declare war on the United States ya know!

 

[Kfox]

Oh, kinda like how the far right says Jan 6 was a false flag operation by the left, and all the Trump flags in the chaos were part of the deception?

So just to be clear; your accusation is as absurd as the claim that the Jan 6 incident was a false flag operation by the left? Fair enough; I can buy that.

 

[Debater Slayer]

The men and women (such as those who serve in the military) who have placed their lives on the line (and even died) to secure and safeguard our rights as American citizens are the reason we have freedom and liberty in America.

I would say that the last time the US military fought for this purpose was in World War II. Ever since then, it has instead been almost invariably a tool of enforcing hegemony via military aggression. Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq were possibly the most glaring examples of this, and if anything, the "War on Terror" eroded some Americans' rights and freedoms instead of advancing or protecting them.

In my opinion, conscientious politicians and civil rights activists have done much more than the military to advance rights and freedoms after World War II.

 

[Copernicus]

Isn't the stance of the anti-trans crowd that they should conform to binary pronouns based on what their genitals and/or genetics are? Isn't that demanding a use of a particular pronoun?

But I think the issue is somewhat fraught, because common English usage is a very different thing to change. Common English usage forces a choice in third person singular pronouns--masculine or feminine. There is no third alternative, since "it" usually refers only to inanimate objects. Maybe one can eventually bring about the creation of a neutral animate pronoun by social movement, but the effort is more likely to produce ridicule than the desired result. (The third person plural pronoun seems increasingly to be promoted for a neutral singular reference, as in "Each person took their place.") It is easier to adopt a practice of people using the masculine or feminine pronoun that they feel most comfortable being identified by, but that conforms to the binary system that is fixed by usage.

 

[Kfox]

Isn't the stance of the anti-trans crowd that they should conform to binary pronouns based on what their genitals and/or genetics are? Isn't that demanding a use of a particular pronoun?

No; the anti-trans crowd is saying you can call yourself anything you want, but you have no right to demand I call you whatever it is you want to be called.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

. It is easier to adopt a practice of people using the masculine or feminine pronoun that they feel most comfortable being identified by, but that conforms to the binary system that is fixed by usage.

That is basically what I was trying to argue. @Shaul is suggesting that one side is demanding people use specific pronouns, but of their choice. I was countering with the suggestion that the other side is also demanding people use specific pronouns, but based on genitalia and genetics.

You make a good argument for a practical solution for the most current problem; there are certainly folks that suggest adding or adapting words in ways that most find unwieldy. But that wasn't meant to be on the scope of my counter, since the basic argument is based around individual choice.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

No; the anti-trans crowd is saying you can call yourself anything you want, but you have no right to demand I call you whatever it is you want to be called.

Have you ever been called something you don't want to be called? In particular, repeatedly at school or in a workplace? Imagine people constantly calling you by pronouns you don't like, especially if it's done mockingly. This is harrassment and bullying.

 

[Copernicus]

No; the anti-trans crowd is saying you can call yourself anything you want, but you have no right to demand I call you whatever it is you want to be called.

What if it is just a polite request?

 

[tytlyf]

There were people holding a sign saying Antifa. What kinda evidence are you looking for?

Which one? Which story are you referring to?

 

[Shaul]

No, denying medical treatment is what is evil. You don't know better than the experts, you don't know the patient, thus the only ethical position is for you to butt out, bugger off, get lost, and let those who are schooled, trained amd licensed in medicine practice and let patients needing treatment get treated.

Calling cutting off a child's genitals a "medical treatment" is sick.

 

[Shaul]

Isn't the stance of the anti-trans crowd that they should conform to binary pronouns based on what their genitals and/or genetics are? Isn't that demanding a use of a particular pronoun?

No, it isn't.

 

[Shaul]

That is basically what I was trying to argue. @Shaul is suggesting that one side is demanding people use specific pronouns, but of their choice. I was countering with the suggestion that the other side is also demanding people use specific pronouns, but based on genitalia and genetics.

You make a good argument for a practical solution for the most current problem; there are certainly folks that suggest adding or adapting words in ways that most find unwieldy. But that wasn't meant to be on the scope of my counter, since the basic argument is based around individual choice.

They are demanding others use a pronoun of their choosing. Which they have no right to do.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

No, it isn't.

Doesn't that negate this:

They are demanding others use a pronoun of their choosing. Which they have no right to do.

?

Afterall, if, let's say, you are suddenly being referred to with female pronouns at work, this would be against your choice, correct? You have a right to demand they not do this; it is harrassment. So what is the difference between you and a transgender person?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hitler did declare war on the United States ya know!

What would have been able to do to America? Throw sauerkraut at us?
Amd besides, America loved Hitler amd the Nazis so much they supported him, taught him eugenics and even gave honorable, distinguished burials to Nazis in graveyards for fallen AMERICAN troops.