Students Are Pushing Back Against Gender Ideology In Their Schools

[Copernicus]

The only claim I was making was that most people gender dysphoric are not intersex, and I provided outside sources to back up my claim. Do you agree with me now?

You said "vast majority", but we only know that the percentage of those born with intersex characteristics is somewhere under 2% of the population, and we don't know how many cases are misidentified as one sex or the other. Maybe 10-20% of identified intersex individuals go on to experience gender dysphoria later on in life. My view is that children that later go on to experience gender dysphoria may have biological conditions that predispose them towards it, even if their genitalia appear normal enough not to be classified as "intersex" by a superficial inspection. That doesn't mean that they aren't biologically different from other children at birth and that they aren't in some unobvious biological sense "intersex". Your original remark was about hormone levels, but are those even measured or relevant to gender classification at birth?

More importantly, it isn't clear what any of this has to do with denying mental care or social support to those experiencing gender dysphoria , which is really what you seem to be advocating here. You really make it seem like you approve of the actions being taken by these states to deny medical services and bathroom access on the basis of some kind of stigma associated with the relatively rare condition. That is what the school protest was all about--kids reflecting the same anger, fear, and hatred that many adults have surrounding social support for LGBTQ individuals.

 

[Kfox]

You said "vast majority", but we only know that the percentage of those born with intersex characteristics is somewhere under 2% of the population, and we don't know how many cases are misidentified as one sex or the other. Maybe 10-20% of identified intersex individuals go on to experience gender dysphoria later on in life. My view is that children that later go on to experience gender dysphoria may have biological conditions that predispose them towards it, even if their genitalia appear normal enough not to be classified as "intersex" by a superficial inspection. That doesn't mean that they aren't biologically different from other children at birth and that they aren't in some unobvious biological sense "intersex". Your original remark was about hormone levels, but are those even measured or relevant to gender classification at birth?

At first you seemed to be giving the impression those who experience dysphoria were intersex; now you seem to recognize most are not intersex but assume the percentage that are isn’t as small as I suggested. Okay; you’re not quite there but headed in the right direction.

More importantly, it isn't clear what any of this has to do with denying mental care or social support to those experiencing gender dysphoria , which is really what you seem to be advocating here.

Naaw that’s not what I was advocating for, someone had a hard time understanding why some states are starting to restrict gender affirming care, and I was point out gender affirming care includes surgery and drugs on children that many states don’t approve of.

You really make it seem like you approve of the actions being taken by these states to deny medical services and bathroom access on the basis of some kind of stigma associated with the relatively rare condition.

Do you consider 5% of the population rare? That’s almost like half the number of the entire black population in this country.

That is what the school protest was all about--kids reflecting the same anger, fear, and hatred that many adults have surrounding social support for LGBTQ individuals.

Let me guess…. when people protest against issues you agree with, that protest is based on fear, hatred, and anger, but when people protest in favor of issues you agree with, there is no fear, hatred, or anger involved, only righteousness; right?

 

[Copernicus]

At first you seemed to be giving the impression those who experience dysphoria were intersex; now you seem to recognize most are not intersex but assume the percentage that are isn’t as small as I suggested. Okay; you’re not quite there but headed in the right direction.

You jumped to that conclusion on your own, and I have denied it in the past. I suppose I'll have to keep denying it with you. Oh, well. Been there before, as have others.

Naaw that’s not what I was advocating for, someone had a hard time understanding why some states are starting to restrict gender affirming care, and I was point out gender affirming care includes surgery and drugs on children that many states don’t approve of.

I'm not disputing that Republican-controlled legislatures in some states are trying to override the judgement of medical professionals and the people who actually have a personal stake in dealing with these issues. I see it as government trampling on people's right to privacy and control over their own lives. Why should we care if it drives up suicide rates in those suffering from gender dysphoria? Conservatives only seem to want government off their backs when it comes to paying for the government services that they feel entitled to. One of those services seems to be preserving taboos surrounding gender issues.

Do you consider 5% of the population rare? That’s almost like half the number of the entire black population in this country.

That's not a huge percentage of the population, but I have no idea where you got that figure from, which you seemed careful not to provide a source for. I've seen figures way lower than that for percentages of the population diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

Let me guess…. when people protest against issues you agree with, that protest is based on fear, hatred, and anger, but when people protest in favor of issues you agree with, there is no fear, hatred, or anger involved, only righteousness; right?

Nope, not at all. I think that this particular issue does carry a lot of fear, hatred, and anger, especially with young people struggling to come to terms with very strong emotional feelings such as those surrounding sex and bathrooms.

 

[Kfox]

I'm not disputing that Republican-controlled legislatures in some states are trying to override the judgement of medical professionals and the people who actually have a personal stake in dealing with these issues. I see it as government trampling on people's right to privacy and control over their own lives. Why should we care if it drives up suicide rates in those suffering from gender dysphoria? Conservatives only seem to want government off their backs when it comes to paying for the government services that they feel entitled to. One of those services seems to be preserving taboos surrounding gender issues.

Now you seem to be under the impression that when it comes to surgery on Children, the medical professionals and people who actually have a personal stake in dealing with these issues are on one side, and the legislatures are on then other side; ignoring the fact that there are legislatures, medical professionals and people who have a stake in the issue on BOTH sides of this debate.

That's not a huge percentage of the population, but I have no idea where you got that figure from, which you seemed careful not to provide a source for.

Remember Post #1094 I provided you a link showing 5% of young adults identify as trans?

I've seen figures way lower than that for percentages of the population diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

I'm talking about those claiming to be trans; not just those who have been formally diagnosed.

Nope, not at all. I think that this particular issue does carry a lot of fear, hatred, and anger, especially with young people struggling to come to terms with very strong emotional feelings such as those surrounding sex and bathrooms.

And there is no fear, hatred, and anger on the pro-trans side? Really???

 

[Copernicus]

Now you seem to be under the impression that when it comes to surgery on Children, the medical professionals and people who actually have a personal stake in dealing with these issues are on one side, and the legislatures are on then other side; ignoring the fact that there are legislatures, medical professionals and people who have a stake in the issue on BOTH sides of this debate.

You can always find people on both sides of an issue, even among medical professionals. However, I'm not going to bother debating unsupported claims like this. I doubt that many professionals who specialize in treatment of gender dysphoria are happy about legislators passing laws to second guess their professional judgment.

Remember Post #1094 I provided you a link showing 5% of young adults identify as trans?

Of course not. I'm old now, so my photographic memory doesn't work so well anymore. That was a headline based on how a young age group responded to survey questions. If you look at statistics for youths who have actually been diagnosed and treated, you'll find a much smaller percentage, as I pointed out in post 1,101.

I'm talking about those claiming to be trans; not just those who have been formally diagnosed.

So what? I don't care how many kids claim to be trans, since the controversy here is over laws that restrict treatment of those legitimately diagnosed. How young people answer surveys may not always reflect reality, especially when we are dealing with small percentages of a demographic.

And there is no fear, hatred, and anger on the pro-trans side? Really???

I never said that, but you have a strong tendency to imagine things that I might have said and then act as if I actually did. There are strong emotions on both sides of very controversial issues. Those advocating for LGBTQ issues are not seeking to suppress minority rights and entitlements, unless we are talking about a perceived entitlement by Republicans and right wingers to pass anti-LGBTQ laws in Republican-controlled legislatures.

 

[Kfox]

You can always find people on both sides of an issue, even among medical professionals. However, I'm not going to bother debating unsupported claims like this. I doubt that many professionals who specialize in treatment of gender dysphoria are happy about legislators passing laws to second guess their professional judgment.

Yeah; half may feel that way, the other half are happy when these legislators pass laws that align with their professional judgment.

I never said that, but you have a strong tendency to imagine things that I might have said and then act as if I actually did. There are strong emotions on both sides of very controversial issues.

It's just that when you mention the fear, hatred, and anger on one side, but neglect to mention it for the other side, it gave me the impression you failed to realize it existed.

 

[wellwisher]

That you are a male is not just that you are XY. There is more to that, than just XY. That is what the link says:
"... multidimensional biological construct based on anatomy, physiology, genetics, and hormones. ..."

Read all the words and ask if you need help understanding what it means.

You are missing will, choice and outside conditioning. Has anyone ever heard of Comicon. Comicon is a major set of conventions for comic book fans, who dress up as their favorite character and share their common interests with other fans. I was wondering how does anatomy, physiology, genetics and hormones help one pick the character that best suits you when you go to Comicon? Or does the stimulus start from outside, based on reading and learning about different characters and storylines then finding a character that best suits your imagination and fantasy. Transgender is similar in that it needs to dress up to play a gender role. The pronouns appear to add accessories to the base costume.

The science problem with a simple biological solution is polls have been run connected to human sexuality for decades. Transgender has been around the whole time since the 1960's polls. The difference today is the number of transgender has suddenly increased rapidly and appear to affect school age children, more than their parent's and grand patent's generation. You cannot explain that with a sudden generational change in anatomy, physiology, genetics, and hormones, coming from within, unless drugs or chemical did it. Which comic book is teaching this?

What is the end game for the Democrat Party, who is writing and teaching this comic book; manipulative. My guess it is about campaign donation and Big Medical and Pharm industries, who need free guinea pigs to run tests at the tax payers expense. Parent cannot have a say or the comic book will be closed.

 

[Copernicus]

I doubt that many professionals who specialize in treatment of gender dysphoria are happy about legislators passing laws to second guess their professional judgment.​

Yeah; half may feel that way, the other half are happy when these legislators pass laws that align with their professional judgment.

I feel that way because most of these laws are about limiting or denying the services they offer to people claiming to experience gender dysphoria. But maybe half of them do prefer that legislators impose those limitations on their professional judgment while stoking public anger and prejudice against their patients. Who knows, eh?

It's just that when you mention the fear, hatred, and anger on one side, but neglect to mention it for the other side, it gave me the impression you failed to realize it existed.

Yes, I know that it gave you that false impression, but you were clearly intent on making me out to be a hypocrite when you jumped to this conclusion in post #1,102:

Let me guess…. when people protest against issues you agree with, that protest is based on fear, hatred, and anger, but when people protest in favor of issues you agree with, there is no fear, hatred, or anger involved, only righteousness; right?​