Students for Concealed Carry on Campus

[Mister_T]

Instead of giving students guns, maybe it's time for campus' to dramatically increase their police presence. I can only imagine if you gave every student a gun here in Los Angeles. :cover:

 

[Apex]

Instead of giving students guns, maybe it's time for campus' to dramatically increase their police presence. I can only imagine if you gave every student a gun here in Los Angeles. :cover:

Could you please show me who is advocating what I bolded above?

 

[Draka]

Um, I can't see that allowing students to carry concealed weapons would really change that much except for the possibility of more deaths. If you notice, most often the gunmen attacking other students on campus not only shoot and kill other students, but usually take their lives as well. They are almost exclusively murder/suicide events. So if you think that the possibility of being killed is going to stop someone from going on a rampage in which they intend to off themselves anyway then you are missing the point.

Now, I actually think that Cardero's cartoon brings up a good thing to think about. If everyone is carrying guns, and something were to happen with a shooting event, then who's to say that some confusion wouldn't arise with all those guns being there and more people get killed accidentally than the gunmen was shooting at in the first place?

Not only that, but add in the fact that most shootings, whether school shootings or not (see about 15 year old boy murdering his family) are a direct result of the person acquiring a gun from home. A parent's gun most often.

When we look at these things as well as looking at countries that do have bans on guns like in the UK, we have to notice that there is one simple equation....more guns = more gun crimes.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Um, I can't see that allowing students to carry concealed weapons would really change that much except for the possibility of more deaths. If you notice, most often the gunmen attacking other students on campus not only shoot and kill other students, but usually take their lives as well. They are almost exclusively murder/suicide events. So if you think that the possibility of being killed is going to stop someone from going on a rampage in which they intend to off themselves anyway then you are missing the point.

It could stop someone who's on a rampage from killing more people.

An example could be the security gaurd in CO who killed a gunman at a church.

 

[Sola'lor]

I wish more law abiding citizens would carry guns. All of these school shootings, mall shootings and stuff would end after the gunman fired the first shot. Putting guns in the hands of more law abiding citizens may not prevent incidents but it will reduce the severity of these incidents. We shouldn't have to rely on a higher authority(Police) for our protection. We have the right to protect ourselves. I would trust defending my self rather than waiting for a policeman to show up and defend me.

 

[Mister_T]

Could you please show me who is advocating what I bolded above?

Can you point to me where I said that anybody was advocating anything? :areyoucra Unless I'm missing something, this thread is about giving students guns and I was under the impression that we were free to comment. :sarcastic

 

[Blentyn chan Celi]

Um... we have to notice that there is one simple equation....more guns = more gun crimes.

Where guns are outlawed, only outlaws have guns.

 

[Fluffy]

Can you point to me where I said that anybody was advocating anything?

Unless I'm missing something, this thread is about giving students guns and I was under the impression that we were free to comment.

I believe that Apex is keen to point out the difference between advocating that licensed gun carriers should be able to carry guns on campus and advocating that every student should carry a gun on campus. In other words the picture painted by the last sentence of your last post is one envisioned by neither Apex nor SCCC.

 

[Mister_T]

In other words the picture painted by the last sentence of your last post is one envisioned by neither Apex nor SCCC.

And once again, I never made the claim that Apex, the SCCC, or anybody was advocating anything. Iw as not trying to be subtle or otherwise. I was making a general comment or speaking outloud, not directed at anybody, in regards to where I live.

 

[McBell]

Can you point to me where I said that anybody was advocating anything? :areyoucra Unless I'm missing something, this thread is about giving students guns and I was under the impression that we were free to comment. :sarcastic

This thread is SUPPOSED to be about allowing students who ALREADY have a concealed weapons permit the right to carry said concealed weapon on their college campus.
Which makes sense since they are ALREADY carrying their concealed weapon everywhere else anyway.

 

[Mister_T]

This thread is SUPPOSED to be about allowing students who ALREADY have a concealed weapons permit the right to carry said concealed weapon on their college campus.

I did not realize that the meaning of "giving students guns" and "allowing students to carry guns" was so drastically different. :sarcastic I'll be more literal next time.

 

[McBell]

I did not realize that the meaning of "giving students guns" and "allowing students to carry guns" was so drastically different. :sarcastic I'll be more literal next time.

There is a major difference.
Please stop trying to insult my intelligence.

The thread is not about GIVING anyone guns.
It is about letting those who ALREADY HAVE THEM the right to carry them on campus.
If you cannot see the difference...

 

[Mister_T]

Instead of giving students guns, maybe it's time for campus' to dramatically increase their police presence. I can only imagine if you gave every student a gun here in Los Angeles. :cover:

To expand on this further, I do not think this would be good for L.A. students. Having a clean record in Southern California does not mean you're a stand up citizens. There are a lot of college students with clean records who are gang members. In a place where gang activity is so high, I can see this having the opposite effect.

 

[Sola'lor]

To expand on this further, I do not think this would be good for L.A. students. Having a clean record in Southern California does not mean you're a stand up citizens. There are a lot of college students with clean records who are gang members. In a place where gang activity is so high, I can see this having the opposite effect.

Nah. The gang members would just kill eachother off and then you wouldn't have any more gang members.

 

[McBell]

To expand on this further, I do not think this would be good for L.A. students. Having a clean record in Southern California does not mean you're a stand up citizens. There are a lot of college students with clean records who are gang members. In a place where gang activity is so high, I can see this having the opposite effect.

Fortunately merely having a clean record is not enough to get a Conceal Carry Permit in California:

To comply with the requirements of the applicable Penal Code sections, San Diego Sheriffs Department has established the following guidelines.

Section I:​

GOOD MORAL CHARACTER
Good moral character is verified by a background check based upon fingerprints and information submitted by the applicant. Personal reference letters, written by friends or acquaintances of the applicant, are requested for this purpose. Letters cannot be accepted if they are written by the applicant, are form letters, are written by out-of-County residents or family members. References will be contacted by Department staff so letters must be legibly signed, dated within 30 days of the application, include a daytime phone number and state that the writer is aware the applicant is requesting a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Law enforcement-related applicants are not required to submit reference letters, but must submit a letter from their agency and present their law enforcement identification.

GOOD CAUSE (See Bottom of page for examples)
Good Cause is the set of circumstances which distinguishes the applicant from the mainstream and causes him or her to be placed in harm's way. Good cause is NOT a simple fear for one's safety. Applicants applying because of business reasons will be required to demonstrate they are in active, legitimate business. Employees applying because of job duties must provide validation of those duties. Persons applying because of threats or personal protection needs must submit copies of police reports, restraining orders or other documentation substantiating their concerns.

RESIDENCE VERIFICATIONS
Applicants are required to submit two "proofs" of residency to establish they live in San Diego County. These may be unpaid utility bills which are no more than 30 days old and include residence/service address, magazine subscription labels or other such items. Note: Post Office Boxes are not residence addresses and will not be accepted as permanent home addresses. Applicants who are not full-time residents may be required to show other proof that San Diego County is their primary residence. Applicants who are not U.S. citizens are required to show legal residence status.

FIREARMS SAFETY/TRAINING
Applicable statutes require all persons applying or reapplying for this privilege to successfully complete training in the safe use of weapons within 30 days of subject application. Proof of this training will be submitted with each application or reapplication in the form of a current certificate signed by a Firearms Safety Instructor licensed by the California Department of Consumer Affairs.
Law enforcement-related applicants who qualify quarterly pursuant to State statute are exempt from this requirement.
​

Source

 

[Mister_T]

There is a major difference.
Please stop trying to insult my intelligence.

The thread is not about GIVING anyone guns.
It is about letting those who ALREADY HAVE THEM the right to carry them on campus.
If you cannot see the difference...

I understand what the thread is about just perfectly. Please stop trying to insult mine.

Allowing soemthing is = to giving.

give

/gɪv/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[giv]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciationverb, gave, giv·en, giv·ing, noun
–verb (used with object)
1.to present voluntarily and without expecting compensation; bestow: to give a birthday present to someone. 2.to hand to someone: Give me that plate, please. 3.to place in someone's care: If you give me your coat, I'll put it in the closet. 4.to grant (permission, opportunity, etc.) to someone: Give me a chance. 5.to impart or communicate: to give advice; to give a cold to someone. 6.to set forth or show; present; offer: He gave no reason for his lateness. 7.to pay or transfer possession to another in exchange for something: They gave five dollars for the picture. He gave me the car for $800.

Hope that clears things up. If you insist on arguing personal interpretation of the word "giving" further, you can always start a thread on it.

 

[McBell]

I understand what the thread is about just perfectly. Please stop trying to insult mine.

Allowing soemthing is = to giving.

give

/gɪv/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[giv]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciationverb, gave, giv·en, giv·ing, noun
–verb (used with object)
1.to present voluntarily and without expecting compensation; bestow: to give a birthday present to someone. 2.to hand to someone: Give me that plate, please. 3.to place in someone's care: If you give me your coat, I'll put it in the closet. 4.to grant (permission, opportunity, etc.) to someone: Give me a chance. 5.to impart or communicate: to give advice; to give a cold to someone. 6.to set forth or show; present; offer: He gave no reason for his lateness. 7.to pay or transfer possession to another in exchange for something: They gave five dollars for the picture. He gave me the car for $800.

Hope that clears things up. If you insist on arguing personal interpretation of the word "giving" further, you can always start a thread on it.

And even using the definition you highlighted it is still wrong.
They ALREADY have that permission.

the context in which you use the word is giving them something they do not already have, the guns.
Since they already have the guns...

 

[Mister_T]

Fortunately merely having a clean record is not enough to get a Conceal Carry Permit in California:

To comply with the requirements of the applicable Penal Code sections, San Diego Sheriffs Department has established the following guidelines.​

Section I:​

GOOD MORAL CHARACTER​

Good moral character is verified by a background check based upon fingerprints and information submitted by the applicant. Personal reference letters, written by friends or acquaintances of the applicant, are requested for this purpose. Letters cannot be accepted if they are written by the applicant, are form letters, are written by out-of-County residents or family members. References will be contacted by Department staff so letters must be legibly signed, dated within 30 days of the application, include a daytime phone number and state that the writer is aware the applicant is requesting a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Law enforcement-related applicants are not required to submit reference letters, but must submit a letter from their agency and present their law enforcement identification.​

GOOD CAUSE (See Bottom of page for examples)​

Good Cause is the set of circumstances which distinguishes the applicant from the mainstream and causes him or her to be placed in harm's way. Good cause is NOT a simple fear for one's safety. Applicants applying because of business reasons will be required to demonstrate they are in active, legitimate business. Employees applying because of job duties must provide validation of those duties. Persons applying because of threats or personal protection needs must submit copies of police reports, restraining orders or other documentation substantiating their concerns.​

RESIDENCE VERIFICATIONS​

Applicants are required to submit two "proofs" of residency to establish they live in San Diego County. These may be unpaid utility bills which are no more than 30 days old and include residence/service address, magazine subscription labels or other such items. Note: Post Office Boxes are not residence addresses and will not be accepted as permanent home addresses. Applicants who are not full-time residents may be required to show other proof that San Diego County is their primary residence. Applicants who are not U.S. citizens are required to show legal residence status.​

FIREARMS SAFETY/TRAINING ​

Applicable statutes require all persons applying or reapplying for this privilege to successfully complete training in the safe use of weapons within 30 days of subject application. Proof of this training will be submitted with each application or reapplication in the form of a current certificate signed by a Firearms Safety Instructor licensed by the California Department of Consumer Affairs.​

Law enforcement-related applicants who qualify quarterly pursuant to State statute are exempt from this requirement.​

Source

People affiliated with gangs are capable of having all of the above. There are a lot of gang members who legally own guns.

Like I said, I don't think this would be a good idea in Los Angeles.

 

[McBell]

People affiliated with gangs are capable of having all of the above. There are a lot of gang members who legally own guns.

Yet how many of them how CCPs?

Like I said, I don't think this would be a good idea in Los Angeles.

And I have no problems with you have that opinion.

 

[Todd]

To expand on this further, I do not think this would be good for L.A. students. Having a clean record in Southern California does not mean you're a stand up citizens. There are a lot of college students with clean records who are gang members. In a place where gang activity is so high, I can see this having the opposite effect.

True, but those gang members probably already have guns and probably carry them regardless of the law.

I don't condone giving everyone guns, but knowing that it's getting your license is time consuming and that they do go through some training and background checks, I think it's not a problem to allow people that have concealed hand gun permits to carry them on school premises.