exchemist
Veteran Member
Quite. There is no such thing of course. It's a creationist myth.
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Supposedly, evolution produced the circulatory system in any creature. That is also impossible. It is just way too irreducibly complex to have evolve
- Thread starter SavedByTheLord
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exchemist
Veteran Member
Nope. Quantum particles of matter have wavelengths, certainly, but that is rather different. Wavelengths are just one of the properties of waves, or wavelike entities.
exchemist
Veteran Member
There is no such law or principle.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Ironically the creationist version of no local decrease in entropy would mean that the development of a human being from a single cell all the way to an adult would be impossible.
Esteban X
Active Member
Define "God", Define "always", Define "existed". There have been literal libraries of books devoted to that theological question.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Indeed. It's part of the idiocy of some creationists to think that considerations of entropy can be usefully be applied to the evolution of a population of organisms, over generations. It's not a closed system, obviously.
As you say, it would be more rational to try to apply it to the development of an embryo, in which the degree of order and complexity increases as it develops. That's not a closed system either of course but at least you can watch a single organism change and consider what is happening. The mere fact that this occurs shows that living systems can increase in order without breaking any natural laws.
The argument is cretinous beyond belief - and has in fact been abandoned by many creationists these days as they have realised it makes them look such fools.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I remember that. I used to belong to a charismatic church. The thing that killed it for me was that one could speak in tongues and the other one had the gift of interpretation of tongues, and when I did it, I got more than one kind of interpretation, so I couldn't figure out which interpretation was the correct one, and then I ask another one and then that was completely different interpretation as well. It just never ended so I concluded pretty certainly and quick that it was all b******* , and that was the end of my tongue speaking days.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
"Irreducibly complexity" = argument from ignorance / incredulity
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
BTW: the probability of highly complex things being the and result of 4 billion years of evolution is literally 1 in 1. Inevitable.
Molding simple things into complex things in a complex environment is literally what the evolutionary process demonstrably does.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
The universe has always existed.
And it's easy to show.
Always = for all of time.
Here's a challenge: show us a point IN TIME when the universe did not exist.
I dare ya.
Even if I grant your easily refutable premise, then still this doesn't follow.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
1. there is no "law of entropy". There are laws of thermodynamics
2. earth is not a closed system. Go out during the day, look up. See that giant ball of nuclear infurnus? It's called the sun and it feeds the earth with workable energy 24/7
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Makes no sense.
The laws of thermodynamics apply to the universe, wheter god created the universe or not.
Once again, you are looking to eat your cake and have it also.
The laws of thermodynamics are what they are. They apply in the universe.
Regardless of universe creating gods existing or not.
So if you wish to make arguments based on thermodynamics, then it matters not if god exists or not.
Thermodynamics apply either way.
So, if you wish to argue that order in the universe should have disappeared long ago because of thermodynamics, then such would be the case in a universe that originated by a god as well as in a universe that wasn't originated by a god. Because in both cases, thermodynamics would apply.
Sucks to be you
I thought believing in impossible things and in things for which there is no evidence was part of your religion?????
Not that evolution is impossible or that there is no evidence for it.......
Nice ! -- I mean the story that is .. my condolences for the sophisticated mind control techniques .. and congrats for the escaping on the back of logic and rational thought .. I had a similar path .. although not of the Fundi kind and disliked that system just because it was so different .. as was catholicism early on .. and didn't have a clue about orthodox .. but those fundi's .. no drinking .. no dancing .. no sex .. no fun in general was reason enough. This was on the basis of convincing them that MY religions belief was better .. then that turned out no good as well.
Close family was high up in the Lutheran Church .. "Missouri Synod" - as opposed to the other branch which ordains woment ..
har har. as in hiring and firing of ministers high up. .. There was an Pentecostal Church that sprang up ... a Lutheran Church .. pastored by a Lutheran Minister .. meaning has attended 8 years of Seminary .. learning Greek.. Hebrew .. Latin to read the old texts .. and then 1 year as a vicar prior to getting your own congregation. .. as opposed to the online Bible degree variety.
The church was tolerated for awhile .. but then one day my Family Friend was called into settle a dispute -- Two folks speaking in tongues on the same question .. came up with diametricly opposed answers from God .. and this divided the Church along lines ... my friend was called in to resolve the dispute.. Was some years later that the Church was punted from the Lutheran Church .. on grounds of Heresy .. "Speaking for God" .. usurping the position of the Logos .. Blasphamy of the Spirit... which according to my reading of the Bible is down the same path as the Unforgivable Sin.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
For me it just proved that there is really no God in communication with absolutely nobody.Nice ! -- I mean the story that is .. my condolences for the sophisticated mind control techniques .. and congrats for the escaping on the back of logic and rational thought .. I had a similar path .. although not of the Fundi kind and disliked that system just because it was so different .. as was catholicism early on .. and didn't have a clue about orthodox .. but those fundi's .. no drinking .. no dancing .. no sex .. no fun in general was reason enough. This was on the basis of convincing them that MY religions belief was better .. then that turned out no good as well.
Close family was high up in the Lutheran Church .. "Missouri Synod" - as opposed to the other branch which ordains woment ..
as in hiring and firing of ministers high up. .. There was an Pentecostal Church that sprang up ... a Lutheran Church .. pastored by a Lutheran Minister .. meaning has attended 8 years of Seminary .. learning Greek.. Hebrew .. Latin to read the old texts .. and then 1 year as a vicar prior to getting your own congregation. .. as opposed to the online Bible degree variety.
The church was tolerated for awhile .. but then one day my Family Friend was called into settle a dispute -- Two folks speaking in tongues on the same question .. came up with diametricly opposed answers from God .. and this divided the Church along lines ... my friend was called in to resolve the dispute.. Was some years later that the Church was punted from the Lutheran Church .. on grounds of Heresy .. "Speaking for God" .. usurping the position of the Logos .. Blasphamy of the Spirit... which according to my reading of the Bible is down the same path as the Unforgivable Sin.
It's all just make believe and pretend with candles , crosses , stained glass, and books for sale in the back.
It does not mean that God never intervenes in any way .. but like a scientist observing an experiment .. you don't intervene to try to change the result .. what would be the point of conducting such experiment if you are not going to see what happens by conducting that experiment.
It does not mean that God does not communicate .. just not directly .. and on demand by some worthless human blabbering gibberish .. and another worthless human pretending that gibberish is some new language .. and they have the magic ability to translate.
God does talk to us however just in a different way .. and perhaps from time to time .. a human or two get a glimpse in the past or future .. but yeah .. the general rule is that when on vacation from the heavenly abode and node - you don't remember your past life. What fun would the vacation be then ? everyone around you committing suicide at the first sign of trouble .. why not ?
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
For me I've concluded that it would take a God to know God, not people speaking on 'behalf' to tell you about a God to know a God.
Which is why I find it all just a creative human invention after all is said and done.
a creative human invention it is .. but I think your conclusion a bit pre-mature .. albeit in the realm of the possible .. what fun would that be if God did not leave a few clues in the programming 
As soon as people refute you, you invoke magic. It's not very convincing.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Been through that when I was a Christian and I don't buy it.