Suspect charged with hate crime for destroying Satanic Temple display at Iowa Capitol

[libre]

Today the Christians that put up their Ten Commandments are doing the same.

I reject the proposition that a group who are subversively using religious protections for political reasons are doing the same thing as genuine Religious organizations.

 

[Father Heathen]

The equivalency here of this qualifying as a hate crime is not so much about historicity or “genuine religious practice” concerning the object that was defaced, but rather the motivation of the perpetrator.

It’s based on the hate of the perpetrator who perceived the object as an affront to his religious sensibilities, such that he felt justified in its destruction irregardless of the law.

This sort of law becomes necessary in order to maintain fairness and order, and promote tolerance in a society where several individuals have in the past (and present) demonstrated that they believe that they have a “higher” calling beyond the law of the land that justifies their actions.

As exemplified by:

Followed with:

Believing that one's own religion elevates themselves above others and the laws that protect them and their rights is a dangerous mentality.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I reject the proposition that a group who are subversively using religious protections for political reasons are doing the same thing as genuine Religious organizations.

They are actually doing that for religious reasons. Freedom from religion has to be part of the First Amendment.

Do you seriously deny that there is not a huge political motive when any new Ten Commandments monument is put up today? Many Christians are trying to politicize religion, since they feel that their own person religion would be the one sponsored by the state.

 

[crossfire]

Fair in the sense that law was applied as written.

That said, the Satanic temple is an organization which basically serves to provoke criticism of the Religious protections, rather than genuine Religious practice. For that reason I think characterizing this a 'hate crime' in the same way that someone who defaced a Mosque or Synagogue would be untrue.

I would say that the Satanic Temple is a genuinely fine example of the Sacred Clown tradition.

 

[Dao Hao Now]

I reject the proposition that a group who are subversively using religious protections for political reasons are doing the same thing as genuine Religious organizations.

I agree.

“Genuine religious organizations” are taking advantage of their privileged position within the society to impose the presence of their religion, with an implication of acceptance by the government, upon the public at large.

They’ve been getting away with it uncontested for so long that they actually feel as though they are under attack when it’s brought to their attention that the constitution specifically prohibits establishing and supporting religions by the government.

The Satanic Temple on the other hand uses the loopholes created by these “genuine religious organizations” that has allowed them to place their iconography on government properties, in order to demonstrate the hypocrisy of such laws and bring awareness of this to both these “genuine religious organizations” and the public at large.

So yes, I agree;
They are not doing the same thing…….
One is doing it to impose their religion on the public, and the other is doing it to bring awareness to the fact of what the “genuine religious organizations” are being allowed to do.

As far as….

but I'm not going to sit here and equate this guy with someone who actually takes hateful actions towards other religious people or their religious practices or symbols.

From the article linked in the OP:
“A Mississippi man who admitted to destroying a statue of the pagan idol Baphomet at the Iowa Capitol has been charged with a hate crime.”
"Evidence shows the defendant made statements to law enforcement and the public indicating he destroyed the property because of the victim’s religion,"

“Michael Cassidy, a former congressional candidate from Mississippi, told the conservative website The Sentinel that “My conscience is held captive to the word of God, not to bureaucratic decree. And so I acted.””

So we have a guy that travels 13 hours because his “conscience is held captive to” his “word of God” which prompted his action to destroy the property (a religious symbol) “because of the victims religion”.
But somehow you don’t perceive this as taking
“hateful actions toward other religious people or their religious practices or symbols”, because what……they’re not sufficiently “religious” enough to pass your muster?
Even though he openly admitted to the act and confirmed he did it for religious reasons?

How much more intolerance of anybody or anything that affronts his religious sensibilities do you feel would be necessary on his part in order to “legitimately” qualify as a hate crime in your opinion?

 

[libre]

“Genuine religious organizations” are taking advantage of their privileged position within the society to impose the presence of their religion, with an implication of acceptance by the government, upon the public at large.

They’ve been getting away with it uncontested for so long that they actually feel as though they are under attack when it’s brought to their attention that the constitution specifically prohibits establishing and supporting religions by the government.

The Satanic Temple on the other hand uses the loopholes created by these “genuine religious organizations” that has allowed them to place their iconography on government properties, in order to demonstrate the hypocrisy of such laws and bring awareness of this to both these “genuine religious organizations” and the public at large.

I agree, I'm not condemning the Satanic temple. However I recognize it for what it is.

I'm arguing against the liberal use of the term 'hate crime' that in my view sullies the term.
It's not like I'm protecting the sanctity of Religion here, the Satanic temple is very obviously a parody/subversive political organization. It's not a Religious organization on anything beyond the paper.

 

[Dao Hao Now]

I agree, I'm not condemning the Satanic temple. However I recognize it for what it is.

I'm arguing against the liberal use of the term 'hate crime' that in my view sullies the term.
It's not like I'm protecting the sanctity of Religion here, the Satanic temple is very obviously a parody/subversive political organization. It's not a Religious organization on anything beyond the paper.

It’s not the victim but rather the motivations of the perpetrator of crime that determines the designation of a hate crime.

Are you suggesting that the perpetrator destroyed the display because he was opposed to the message the Satanic Temple was demonstrating by playing into their hands and exposing his attitude of privilege and intolerance of anything that dared to run contrary to his religion?

What makes you so sure he wasn’t under the impression that the Satanic Temple was in fact worshiping his understanding of Satin portrayed in his religion that he was hatefully attacking due to the fact that his “conscience is held captive to the word of God”, (his God)?

 

[Father Heathen]

I asked a question.
Can I have an answer?
Who is it?

Now it's your turn to answer my questions on post #77

 

[Father Heathen]

I reject the proposition that a group who are subversively using religious protections for political reasons are doing the same thing as genuine Religious organizations.

How could the desire to display religious imagery on government property be anything other than a political statent?

 

[Father Heathen]

What makes you so sure he wasn’t under the impression that the Satanic Temple was in fact worshiping his understanding of Satin portrayed in his religion that he was hatefully attacking due to the fact that his “conscience is held captive to the word of God”, (his God)?

Maybe he was a linenist.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Maybe he was a linenist.

The synthesis of Marxism-Linenism and Satinism has serious implications for the social fabric.

 

[tytlyf]

This is why there's separation of church and state. To avoid nonsense like this that religion is responsible for.

 

[libre]

How could the desire to display religious imagery on government property be anything other than a political statent?

Touche.

I just think characterizing this as a hate crime appears to me an over correction, but I understand that on paper the law lines up here.

 

[Dao Hao Now]

Maybe he was a linenist.

Ooops…
Another slip of the finger!
Or did the devil make me do it?

 

[Twilight Hue]

It's a shame Michael Cassidy , a Republican candidate and former military pilot running for Mississippi's House of Representatives is the culprit and the one responsible for this clearly infantile destruction of property.

He’s accused of taking out a Satanic Temple statue at a state capitol. Now he’s being charged with criminal mischief

Michael Cassidy, who is accused of damaging the statue, is running for the Mississippi House of Representatives

www.deseret.com

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I reject the proposition that a group who are subversively using religious protections for political reasons are doing the same thing as genuine Religious organizations.

The only ones behaving subversively are those who made it perfectly clear they don't respect the right of Satanists to enjoy and access society like others. They want rights for themselves but not for me. It's not subversive when a Satanist gives an opening invocation, the subversiveness is all the Christians who wont shut up amd respect the rights of those who are different from themselves.

 

[McBell]

Since you're well-informed, who is Satan in Satanism?

DO YOU WORSHIP SATAN?​

No, nor do we believe in the existence of Satan or the supernatural. The Satanic Temple believes that religion can, and should, be divorced from superstition. As such, we do not promote a belief in a personal Satan. To embrace the name Satan is to embrace rational inquiry removed from supernaturalism and archaic tradition-based superstitions. Satanists should actively work to hone critical thinking and exercise reasonable agnosticism in all things. Our beliefs must be malleable to the best current scientific understandings of the material world — never the reverse.​

FAQ

Answers about mission, religion, membership and many other questions can be read here →

thesatanictemple.com

 

[McBell]

DO YOU WORSHIP SATAN?​

No, nor do we believe in the existence of Satan or the supernatural. The Satanic Temple believes that religion can, and should, be divorced from superstition. As such, we do not promote a belief in a personal Satan. To embrace the name Satan is to embrace rational inquiry removed from supernaturalism and archaic tradition-based superstitions. Satanists should actively work to hone critical thinking and exercise reasonable agnosticism in all things. Our beliefs must be malleable to the best current scientific understandings of the material world — never the reverse.​

FAQ

Answers about mission, religion, membership and many other questions can be read here →

thesatanictemple.com

WHAT DOES SATAN MEAN TO TST?​

Satan is a symbol of the Eternal Rebel in opposition to arbitrary authority, forever defending personal sovereignty even in the face of insurmountable odds. Satan is an icon for the unbowed will of the unsilenced inquirer – the heretic who questions sacred laws and rejects all tyrannical impositions. Our metaphoric representation is the literary Satan best exemplified by Milton and the Romantic Satanists from Blake to Shelley to Anatole France​

FAQ

Answers about mission, religion, membership and many other questions can be read here →

thesatanictemple.com

 

[McBell]

WHAT DOES SATAN MEAN TO TST?​

Satan is a symbol of the Eternal Rebel in opposition to arbitrary authority, forever defending personal sovereignty even in the face of insurmountable odds. Satan is an icon for the unbowed will of the unsilenced inquirer – the heretic who questions sacred laws and rejects all tyrannical impositions. Our metaphoric representation is the literary Satan best exemplified by Milton and the Romantic Satanists from Blake to Shelley to Anatole France​

FAQ

Answers about mission, religion, membership and many other questions can be read here →

thesatanictemple.com

The Satanic Temple is the only Satanic religious organization recognized as a church by the IRS and the Federal Court System.​

​

The Satanic Temple - Official Website

The Satanic Temple encourages benevolence and empathy, rejects tyrannical authority, advocates practical common sense, opposes injustice, and undertakes noble pursuits. The Satanic Temple uses Satan as a symbol of the eternal rebel fighting arbitrary authority and oppressive social norms.

thesatanictemple.com

 

[Father Heathen]

Now it's your turn to answer my questions on post #77

@Estro Felino Come on, don't be shy.