All of the above....but it still has to teach the truth....even if its not what you want to believe. The truth doesn't have 'escape clauses' to make us feel better.
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Syncretism.....Can Mixing Religious Ideas Lead to the Truth?
- Thread starter Deeje
- Start date
Yes, Christianity absorbed Hellenic concepts and philosophy, there's no denying that. Early depictions of Christ certainly took inspiration from Greco-Roman culture at times, as well. Depictions of him were modeled on Apollo, as well as Hermes and Orpheus.
Borrowing from the Neighbors
This is very true.....some beliefs simply contradict each other and cannot be blended without a lot of gymnastics.
Unfortunately many of the "established tried and true sects within religions" are expert gymnasts....they haven't really worked out the contradictions, but simply learn to live with them.
Those who are genuine in their search for the truth need to know how to find it....so if there is a God (or gods) who desire our worship, would they not have a hand in helping us to find it? If so, what form would that help take?
I agree, and this is where we can really find out more than just a surface knowledge of a person. Being committed to a mate for example, we have many opportunities to see the different personality traits that define our spouse. We can be attracted by some and find others not so attractive, but at the end of the day, if we have committed ourselves to that one person, we will really know all about them through our experience of living with them....and accept them for who they are....we then hope that they will do the same for us.
I don't see a relationship with the Christian God to be any different. If people only know a little about him through a surface knowledge provided by a church, and their teachings do not accurately reflect his true personality, then who can blame people for wandering off into what appears to be greener pastures?
I wandered off myself.....but rather than to distance myself from God by choosing another belief system....I merely distanced myself from those who misrepresented him. I found him in the Bible...not in any church.
There is definitely criteria for identifying those who preach authentic religion......they will not be found with blood on their hands, or acting in direct contravention to the instructions of their Master. Just these two will give genuine truth seekers a platform to jump from.....to take their leap of faith.
All choices regarding religion are a leap of faith....even atheism.
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Is authenticity the gauge we are using for legitimacy? Why does authenticity matter more than efficacy for the individual as far as legitimacy goes?
If I have a recipe for barbecue sauce, and I take many different ingredients and make it my own in a way that is unique and still tastes amazing, it will no longer be "authentic" to the original recipe, but it will still be pretty stinking good.
If I'm also making a meal for me to enjoy for myself, does it really matter how it would taste to others if they will never eat it?To me personally? At first that prospect was a lonely one since I came from a background of organized religion, but now after years of following this path by myself, I wouldn't have it any other way. My path is my life - my life is only relevant for me. Honestly, what it's done more than anything else is taught me how to be happy and content with myself regardless of my peers or what they're doing. My walk is mine, and that's enough.
Well, it's probably somewhat similar to the motivation behind someone practicing mixed martial arts instead of just picking one style of martial arts to specialize in. There's an advantage to taking the best bits of many systems and discarding the extra stuff that doesn't seem to work. In just keeping the stuff that proves itself useful, things are streamlined and intuitive.
Every one of these folks is going to have a different answer. For myself, I'm an atheist, but I do find value in deities as focal points for ideas and concepts. Cernunnos here, for example, means something very unique to me based on many different antlered god concepts that I've combined into something that's useful for me.
Now, my ideas on Cernunnos are definitely not historical, are not even the same as other neo-pagans' ideas, and are just my own interpretation which are subject to change as my life experiences change. It works for me, though!
A lot! As an example, here is a whole host of religious truths surrounding just one concept: The Golden Rule.
Golden Rule - Wikipedia
Well, I would suggest that folks maybe not look in broken glass for diamonds, for one... There are plenty of other places where people can look for their metaphorical diamonds. I suggest searching in areas where diamonds are known to be found easily, and it's even better if you can find them where large quantities of diamonds of great quality can be found with little effort.
Help me understand......
In asking questions in an honest way, you already making a concerted effort towards understanding. That's something to be encouraged and admired, IMO.
Imo looking for “authenticity” true authenticity in religion is a fool’s errand. We will find what seems the most authentic to our spiritual nature. The one that seems the most authentic to our own understanding. Whether that is scriptural or spiritual.I see so many here at RF adopting a range of beliefs from various religious systems and making up what appears to be their own personal religions.
How authentic can such a blend of religions be, outside of that individual?
Does it matter if no one else shares that mix of beliefs?
What is the motive behind syncretism, and is it merely “religion shopping” or selecting “ingredients” to fit personal religious tastes?
What role does God (or gods) play in the choices?
How many versions of religious truth can there be?
How can one find the diamond in a pile of broken glass?
Help me understand......
All sects are themselves people eschewing certain things, sometimes even blending from previous traditions, for whatever reason.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I guess it's a step in the process of finding a religion or spiritual practice one devotes their lives to. I think the problem is not seeing the religion of interest as something that would define and shape their lives practice. That, and assuming that religion needs to be separate and incorporated into one's life rather than it actually Being a person's worldview. Personally, I feel there's two (or more) ways of going picking a religion-one look at your experiences and personal values first and if your experiences don't align with the religious values, drop it. That or if one wants to go into a religion go head first without a life boat. Picking and choosing to me sounds like walking on egg shells without any umph.
Nothing wrong with a congregation of one. I just hope that whomever has that personal congregation respects other religions and the context of their belief systems. Not everyone was raised "near a church."
That's the thing. To understand the answers you have to look from a different perspective.
How, though? Objectively (meaning speaking in general rather than for yourself), how can there only be one truth? The world is full of diversity. No human has the same fingerprint even twins don't.
Why would they need to be fooled because they practice something you disagree with?
God is irrelevant in this because it's not a default to answer your OP question.
The person is the decider. God is irrelevant unless that particular person wants a god(s) in their lives to tell them what to do, when, why, and how. Some people need that and others do not.
Only to those who believe in the god you do.
I think that depends on the individual since it's a one-man's sport type of thing. As for understanding it, only other the I can think of is assuming that diversity of life isn't limited to the physical world. You can have diverse spiritual experiences and theologies just as different flowers, planets, and myriad of personalities. If they don't contradict, I don't see what's wrong with it in itself.
I mean wouldn't you want someone to be internally happy with their own spiritual path than superficially happy by following another's?
Be happy they found Their path not your path and anyone else's?
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YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes and I understand what you are saying. But I studied the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses after years of wandering, wondering and looking into religions, and have never been sorry that they encountered me. I know we all have our viewpoint but as I said, I have never been sorry that I did a detailed study with them, and am still learning with appreciation.
I don't personally believe in the guiding hands of gods but not all religions have gods. And most religion's gods aren't exclusive nor thought to be part of a single worldview. Recognizing multiple pathways and individual experience and understanding that defies a exclusivity view.
I agree....but original Christianity was devoid of those things.....the "weeds" of Jesus' parable (leaders of the church after the death of the apostles) did to Christianity what the Pharisees did to Judaism. Same MO...same enemy who sabotaged both....which is the reason why you will not find the real Jesus in either of them.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
From deeje's original post, I reflected that when Moses gave the law to Israel, there were not a variety of beliefs put before them to pick and choose. In other words, they were to follow the commandments and special celebrations. They as a nation or group were not told that they could do anything they wanted. One reason for that is that they were led out of Egypt by Moses by means of the Almighty God's deliverance. So as a national group they made a contract to obey the laws.
Well, I guess that is what separates people.....their beliefs in God(s) or lack of them. What is the purpose of spirituality if it leads you in many directions with no clear destination?...and no purpose to your existence?
There are not multiple pathways if one true Creator God exists......there is only one and he demands exclusivity.....we can pretend that he isn't there but does that make him go away? Does it mean that his requirements do not apply to us because we reject them?
Can you invent your own pathways expecting them to lead you somewhere without knowing the destination and who promised it.
If we want to poke around in the dark because we can't accept that an intelligent Creator exists, who had a purpose to our existence, and is therefore authorized to make certain demands of his creatures, then we are all free to wander down any path we wish.....this is our choice. But, do we know where we are going, and who is leading us there? I can answer that question from my religious view....
Can you tell me where you believe you will be a hundred years from now?
All these questions still apply for anyone considering an "orthodox" religion, too.
And in fact, I'd say that all of the "orthodox" religions - including your own - are syncretic, too... they're just not as open about it.
The destination and purpose is clear to them. Just not to you or the mainstream. Which shouldn't be all that surprising to you since you also believe that few will find 'the path.' The only difference between you and a non-exclusivist believes, like most paths there are many branches and multiple ways to get to the end.
Even if there were just one God, and not many gods or many things which personify the one God in different ways, that doesn't mean they're exclusive. Heck, the vast majority of Jews world wide believe everyone will eventually end up the same place. Jews just take a shorter path.
Other monotheistic or henotheistic gods like Brahman absolutely do not have a 'one path to me' sort of view nor do believers pretend they know the exclusive path to judge others for.
Probably dead. And you can spare me the ministry. I don't believe in souls or afterlife and don't think much of pretending to in order to hope to trick a thing I also don't believe in to give me something I don't believe in.
How much of all this can be said about me, I'm not certain. Some of it probably. But I'll share my perspective, such as it is.
I'm not sure you can always call it a blend, which is syncretism, or just simply picking and choosing the best for something new, as organized religion didn't work for them. But to ask how authentic it is, that depends on the fruit that it bears in that person's life. "By their fruit you shall know them," said Jesus of Nazareth.
I've never understood that as "By their beliefs you shall know them". I see those as more just window dressing. You can find beliefs in any shop. But it's how you shine in them that matters. Not whether you bought them at the discount shop downtown, or from the Taj Mahal.
As with anything, people seek communities, be that in some common interest area like classic train collectors, or the religious equivalent a vintage-class bible study group. Community gives strength and support to the individual, and common belief is what creates that community. Beliefs can be very mailable this way, biasing us towards group membership and away from things which threaten that. In other words, we can be pretty easily swayed with such a strong current in that river. Very few can truly go it alone.
So on some level yes. But if it means compromising too much, say one's intellect, one's sense of good reason and rationality, one's education, and such, then you may find those who prefer to be alone, than to sacrifice the gains outside formalized religion.
Excellent questions, by the way! I would say those who leave religion and become atheists do so because they find that rote answers from the 'Rote-Answers to Doubts' handbooks offer to most believers, to fall short for them. I'd be included in that number as well. But what makes some seek out other religious perspectives, outside the constraints of the previous religious system, is that they still believe in their hearts there is a "Divine" reality, even though the way it was talked about before failed to translate actual meaning into their lives.
People look for ways to understand God. But what some groups offer, fails to speak to them. So they look for other voices. And if their paths are true, they will find those who do speak Truth to them.
Central of course. They are after all seeking the Divine itself.
As many as there are humans. Each human being relates to God as themselves, not as other people. "God accept me because I'm in the right group", is a prayer guaranteed to fail.
By realizing that diamonds are strewn throughout Creation, and people who are self-absorbed, see only their diamond as a diamond, and all the other diamonds as broken glass. No one human being has absolute truth restricted to their views. That is the opposite of Truth.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Never.
Spiritual synchronicity is natural, and the way things were before the Empire of monotheism. Folk often took up and included new gods, new practices, and incorporated them into their own culture. That is how we grow as a global community, and find common ground with our distant neighbors.
EDIT: To clarify via addition; a "mix" can become a bastardization when a foreign deity is demonized and slandered, used as a scapegoat for the thieving culture to pin their woes on, and does not resemble the origin entity in the slightest. (e.g. Beelzebub, Satan, Baphomet, Lucifer)
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Heck, as pointed out by other posters, it's not like Abrahamic religions didn't start by syncretizing a Babylonian war God, and making a new monotheistic structure after removing him from a pantheon.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Yeah. Life right now presents its truth, just as the sun does , the wind, etc.That’s an interesting point.....if there is just one truth, but people find parts of it uncomfortable or unacceptable in their worldview, are they then at liberty to add any of their own enhancements to make it more acceptable to themselves?
Can we create or accept a religion that is not truth, and expect that our own view of God or religion is all that matters.....that somehow God (or gods) don’t really care if we select unrelated elements to formulate our own religion?
Are we then just fooling ourselves by creating our own religious bubble that can accommodate a single membership?
I find religious materials to be a truth on its own merit just like other ways do, except we tend to project one unique truth onto another that blurs its brilliance and purity.
Its like looking at your reflection and tossing stones where the ripples , truthful in its own right, interferes with what you were looking at earlier.
The thing we don't see, I think, is how truth changes and blurs as it interacts leading people in many many directions. Yet all things carry their own unique form of truth in its own ways.
Truth does not exist wholly outside of ourselves. We are part of that truth. I agree.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Right. If not,, where does a truth go?
I personally think it always changes form that makes it incredibly hard to pinpoint any specifics and make a claim that's only it, but nonetheless 'it' still brings its form of truth.
If only religion was as simple as barbecue sauce....then we could make our own, to our own taste and it wouldn't matter....not a great analogy I'm afraid.Is authenticity the gauge we are using for legitimacy? Why does authenticity matter more than efficacy for the individual as far as legitimacy goes?
If I have a recipe for barbecue sauce, and I take many different ingredients and make it my own in a way that is unique and still tastes amazing, it will no longer be "authentic" to the original recipe, but it will still be pretty stinking good.
We can adjust to any major change in our way of living.....new spouse, new house, new country, new language....and we will, if we want to....or are forced to due to circumstances beyond our control.
Are you physically alone?...spiritually alone?.....or personally isolated by your own choices? Was it circumstance or choice that led you down the path you presently follow?
Again, I do not see your analogy as applying to something as serious as religious faith. This to me is a life or death decision that has implications far into the future. Of course I cannot impose my views on anyone else but I can offer them, as my Master did.
I cannot make a commitment to something that is half-baked....I have to know what I believe and why I believe it....and it cannot be subject to change on a whim because the God I serve never alters.
The golden rule is not a law that was binding on everyone.....nor is it a religion...it is as you said a "concept"....a very old and beautiful concept that was incorporated into Bible teachings.
But in this illustration, there is only ONE very valuable diamond, buried in a pile of broken glass....and we have the task of finding it. Do we need help? I believe so, because without an expert opinion in identifying an uncut diamond from a piece of broken glass, how would we ever know? There are many showing us their uncut 'diamonds' but unless we can tell the difference, they may all look the same.....this is where actions speak louder than words.Well, I would suggest that folks maybe not look in broken glass for diamonds, for one... There are plenty of other places where people can look for their metaphorical diamonds. I suggest searching in areas where diamonds are known to be found easily, and it's even better if you can find them where large quantities of diamonds of great quality can be found with little effort.