Syncretism.....Can Mixing Religious Ideas Lead to the Truth?

[Martin]

I see so many here at RF adopting a range of beliefs from various religious systems and making up what appears to be their own personal religions.

How authentic can such a blend of religions be, outside of that individual?

Does it matter if no one else shares that mix of beliefs?

What is the motive behind syncretism, and is it merely “religion shopping” or selecting “ingredients” to fit personal religious tastes?

What role does God (or gods) play in the choices?

How many versions of religious truth can there be?

How can one find the diamond in a pile of broken glass?

Help me understand......

I don't get it. Why dig many shallow wells?

 

[Deeje]

First chapters are confirmed by history? They could easily be myth.

Stories with accurate naming, people... could easily be legends and anecdotes written long after the events.

How do you get to know the God Jesus worshiped? Through the Bible? So Bible is the only book of God because Bible says so?

The question was how do you know God wanted to communicate this way. Because Bible says so?

And I am talking to a Christian? .......Perhaps you need to change your religious identification?
If there is no Bible...there is no God and there is no Jesus? Everything we know about him and his son is from the pages of that one book. It is all we have and that is why we need faith. You cant exactly order it by the truckload......you build faith a brick at a time through careful study of God's word.....but knowledge alone will never make anyone believe in God......you need an invitation from him, (John 6:65) and when you have that invitation, you will know that God exists, you will no longer be wandering about in the dark wondering....He will never force himself on anyone. Jesus never did either...he presented his message on a "take it or leave it" basis.....nothing has changed.

 

[Deeje]

I don't get it. Why dig many shallow wells?

It wasn't God who dug the 'many shallow wells'....it was his adversary, trying to gain custody of the children that he kidnapped from the Father.....giving them 'candy' and promising them freedom.

Each form of worship is designed to appeal to a human heart.....there are many different things that appeal to individual choice and satan caters to all of them. You can drown in a shallow well too you know...

 

[Left Coast]

A lot has happened since our brother Russell passed away.....things that he hoped for have come to fruition. He was not the founder of our faith, but one of a group of men who came together in the late 1890’s with one purpose.....to find the truth of God’s word. As a gifted public speaker, he became their representative and the International Bible Students were created. These men met regularly to discuss the scripture and to carefully weigh Christendom’s doctrines to see if they aligned with the scriptures. Like the ancient Beroeans, (Acts 17:1011) they studied deeply and found that most of what was taught in Christendom was not biblical....but introduced from pagan ideas incorporated to look and sound like it was. Slowly, over time they weeded out those false beliefs.

Rather than inventing their own Christianity, they merely threw away the inventions and additions that had accumulated over many centuries, and went back to the beginning with a clean slate.....I don't think most people have any idea of how much paganism there is in their "Christianity"......but if you know the Bible, it is not unexpected.....apostasy was foretold.

And a cleansing of God's worship was also foretold in this "time of the end".....so who else has cleaned up their act and gotten rid of their pagan beliefs and practices?

All Christians think their beliefs and practices "go back to the beginning" and represent some sort of "original" Christianity. Truth is, the JWs were a new group like the others that came around the same time in 19th century, all of whom had a restorationist vibe, and all of whom added their own unique twist to Christianity that hadn't been seen before.

Tell me something I don't already know......why do you think I'm no longer a part of Christendom?
Christendom is not and never has been genuine "Christianity".

Your version of Christianity isn't exempted from the trend.

 

[PearlSeeker]

And I am talking to a Christian? .......Perhaps you need to change your religious identification?
If there is no Bible...there is no God and there is no Jesus? Everything we know about him and his son is from the pages of that one book. It is all we have and that is why we need faith. You cant exactly order it by the truckload......you build faith a brick at a time through careful study of God's word.....but knowledge alone will never make anyone believe in God......you need an invitation from him, (John 6:65) and when you have that invitation, you will know that God exists, you will no longer be wandering about in the dark wondering....He will never force himself on anyone. Jesus never did either...he presented his message on a "take it or leave it" basis.....nothing has changed.

I have the invitation. Even if stories in the Bible are not historically accurate (study shows they are for the most part myths, legends, pseudographs... ) I believe in God and the greatest commandment... I didn't say everything is nonsense.

No, Bible is not everything we know. It's not the only book talking about God/ultimate reality.

 

[Deeje]

All Christians think their beliefs and practices "go back to the beginning" and represent some sort of "original" Christianity. Truth is, the JWs were a new group like the others that came around the same time in 19th century, all of whom had a restorationist vibe, and all of whom added their own unique twist to Christianity that hadn't been seen before.

It was time for the “reawakening”, which was a time of “cleansing, whitening and purifying’ of God’s worship for “the time of the end”.....this was foretold to take place in the early 20th century.....but the stirrings were taking place at the close of the 1800’s, so that when Christ returned, they would be ready for the assignment that they had been given.

My job is not to convince you or anyone else of anything that you do not want to believe.....my job as a Christian is to simply allow people to hear the message....and allow their own hearts to process it.

The “wheat” exist in the world and it’s up to us to find them and worship with them. The “weeds” are a counterfeit invented by God’s adversary in an attempt to take as many humans down with him as he can.....This means that God can use him to test us all out. We have free will and can choose whatever

“To each his own” takes on a deeper meaning in this instance....the truth (the diamond) will become visible to the hearts of those who cannot accept the the counterfeit (the broken glass). God sees this and then draws them to want to know more. (John 6:44; 65) No one can come to God without an invitation. Whether we get that invitation or not is determined by the criteria that God has set for those to whom he will grant everlasting life.

Do we have a way of knowing if we have the truth? As you said....everyone claims to have it, but not everyone can categorically state that theirs is the real “diamond”. And in the end it doesn’t matter because we are all being tested as to fitness for citizenship in the coming Kingdom of God.....which we believe will soon be the world’s only rulership. God determines our eligibility, not us.

To qualify for citizenship, we must by our very nature be drawn to the truth when fallen humanity is in expert at justification in deviating from it. God knows who qualifies, and it doesn’t depend on a label, but what is in a person’s heart, and in their attitude towards their Creator. We have to love Him and the truth.....even when it hurts us as imperfect humans to follow it. God will not adjust his standards to suit us.....it is we have have to conform to his standards.
That is what I believe.....you might believe differently.....

Your version of Christianity isn't exempted from the trend.

That is your opinion, and you are free to believe that if you wish.....

 

[Deeje]

I have the invitation. Even if stories in the Bible are not historically accurate (study shows they are for the most part myths, legends, pseudographs... ) I believe in God and the greatest commandment... I didn't say everything is nonsense.

No, Bible is not everything we know. It's not the only book talking about God/ultimate reality.

If you say so.....what you choose to believe is not my problem.....

 

[Left Coast]

It was time for the “reawakening”, which was a time of “cleansing, whitening and purifying’ of God’s worship for “the time of the end”.....this was foretold to take place in the early 20th century.....but the stirrings were taking place at the close of the 1800’s, so that when Christ returned,
My job is not to convince you or anyone else of anything that you do not want to believe.....my job as a Christian is to simply allow people to hear the message....and allow their own hearts to process it.

The “wheat” exist in the world and it’s up to us to find them and worship with them. The “weeds” are a counterfeit invented by God’s adversary in an attempt to take as many humans down with him as he can.....This means that God can use him to test us all out. We have free will and can choose whatever

“To each his own” takes on a deeper meaning in this instance....the truth (the diamond) will become visible to the hearts of those who cannot accept the the counterfeit (the broken glass). God sees this and then draws them to want to know more. (John 6:44; 65) No one can come to God without an invitation. Whether we get that invitation or not is determined by the criteria that God has set for those to whom he will grant everlasting life.

Do we have a way of knowing if we have the truth? As you said....everyone claims to have it, but not everyone can categorically state that theirs is the real “diamond”. And in the end it doesn’t matter because we are all being tested as to fitness for citizenship in the coming Kingdom of God.....which we believe will soon be the world’s only rulership. God determines our eligibility, not us.

To qualify for citizenship, we must by our very nature be drawn to the truth when fallen humanity is in expert at justification in deviating from it. God knows who qualifies, and it doesn’t depend on a label, but what is in a person’s heart, and in their attitude towards their Creator. We have to love Him and the truth.....even when it hurts us as imperfect humans to follow it. God will not adjust his standards to suit us.....it is we have have to conform to his standards.
That is what I believe.....you might believe differently.....


That is your opinion, and you are free to believe that if you wish.....

You seem more interested in simply preaching your version of Christianity than actually engaging the topic. I'll pass.

 

[Deeje]

You seem more interested in simply preaching your version of Christianity than actually engaging the topic. I'll pass.

I was addressing the point you raised about why there was a "restorationist vibe" around that time.....it was prophesied to happen when it did.

The "topic" was about syncretic beliefs and apparently not too many can see that Christendom is a very eclectic mix of different beliefs adopted from different religions. It is not genuine Christianity IMV, and never was. A study of the Bible will show anyone willing to hear an inconvenient truth, that when Christ says at the judgment, "I never knew you"...he will really mean it. (Matthew 7:21-23)

 

[Left Coast]

I was addressing the point you raised about why there was a "restorationist vibe" around that time.....it was prophesied to happen when it did.

What was prophesied to happen, specifically? And when?

The "topic" was about syncretic beliefs and apparently not too many can see that Christendom is a very eclectic mix of different beliefs adopted from different religions.

And not many JWs can see it about their own belief system, either. That's the irony of your whole OP.

It is not genuine Christianity IMV, and never was. A study of the Bible will show anyone willing to hear an inconvenient truth, that when Christ says at the judgment, "I never knew you"...he will really mean it. (Matthew 7:21-23)

And of course many non-JW Christians say that applies to JWs as well.

 

[Deeje]

What was prophesied to happen, specifically? And when?

Daniel's prophesies foretold when the Messiah would come....so when Jesus began his ministry in 29CE, people were expecting him. John the Baptist was the one who came to prepare the way for him just six months prior. He would be cut off after three and a half years that is exactly when he was executed, three and a half years later.

The same prophesy was used to calculate when he would return....specifically 1914CE when the first aspect of Jesus' prophesy became manifest....the First World War......the first time in human history when the entire inhabited earth was thrust into a war that no one expected......this was to be followed by food shortages, pestilences, major earthquakes and people showing little love or concern for their fellow man including their own family members. It was also going to be a time when true Christians would be preaching about God's Kingdom, whilst warning of God's coming judgment. (Matthew 24:3-14; Matthew 28:19-20; 2 Timothy 3:1-5)

And not many JWs can see it about their own belief system, either. That's the irony of your whole OP.

Please tell me where our beliefs deviate from what Christ taught.....be specific so I can address them.

And of course many non-JW Christians say that applies to JWs as well.

Time will tell...won't it?

 

[PearlSeeker]

If you say so.....what you choose to believe is not my problem.....

Bible not being historically accurate and not the only book about God is a known fact. I didn't choose it.

 

[Deeje]

Bible not being historically accurate and not the only book about God is a known fact. I didn't choose it.

Who told you that?

 

[PearlSeeker]

Who told you that?

History and archeology for historicity.
Books about God - we all know.

 

[Aštra’el]

I see so many here at RF adopting a range of beliefs from various religious systems and making up what appears to be their own personal religions.

I have done something like that.

How authentic can such a blend of religions be, outside of that individual?

That is something others can decide, and is not relevant to me at all.

Does it matter if no one else shares that mix of beliefs?

No, it does not.

What is the motive behind syncretism, and is it merely “religion shopping” or selecting “ingredients” to fit personal religious tastes?

I do not speak for others, but the purpose of my religion is about being who I Will to be at any given moment, and becoming who I Will to become. It is about finding strength, power, wisdom, and beauty wherever I allow myself to find it, and then utilizing those things in a way that operates in harmony with my true will. It is about making my dreams and goals and aspirations a reality.

What role does God (or gods) play in the choices?

There are inclinations. There is encouragement, inspiration, and motivation. Strength, power, wisdom, beauty. There is purpose. There is a sense of destiny.

How many versions of religious truth can there be?

There are many truths. What truth is being sought? The focus of my religion is not hypotheticals, or what may or may not have happened long ago. The focus is on what is happening now, and all that can happen as a result of my choices.

How can one find the diamond in a pile of broken glass?

Forget the diamond. Take a shard instead, and stare into its reflection. What you see is yourself, but also something else entirely. Every shard is a fragment of our own individual human nature, and collective human nature. Some of us call these shards “gods” and worship them. The shards we hold tight throughout our journey of life matter far, far more than any diamond.

Help me understand......

Imagine that all you choose to be now, and hope to become tomorrow, assembled together into a majestic vortex of dreams, emotions, and inclinations. Be completely honest with yourself, about what sides of human nature most define who you are and who you will to become. From this divine vortex, rises a god, or a goddess, or perhaps even several gods or goddesses. Maybe they have form, maybe it’s just... light. Maybe they have voice. Or maybe it’s just a powerful combination of feelings. In what ways could the god(s) inspire you to live up to your Will?

 

[Deeje]

History and archeology for historicity.
Books about God - we all know.

History supports the Bible when we see rulers, dates and historical places. In fact the Bible has often been corroborated when historians believed that it was wrong.
What books about God we all know?

If there is a God who inspired the Bible then all we need to know is contained in its pages.....it presents the big picture when everyone seems to be fixated on a few dead pixels and listening to the the traffic noise outside....

If God has a big picture, what do you think it is?

 

[Left Coast]

Daniel's prophesies foretold when the Messiah would come

Which prophecies, specifically?

The same prophesy was used to calculate when he would return....specifically 1914CE when the first aspect of Jesus' prophesy became manifest....

Your organization did not initially predict that 1914 would merely be the "first aspect" of Jesus' return. They anticipated Armageddon and and Jesus' establishment of his kingdom on Earth and the end of all earthly kingdoms, since they thought he had already been invisibly ruling in heaven since 1874. It was supposed to be the end, not the beginning. It was only after Jesus didn't show up that your organization rationalized that their initial teaching about 1874 was wrong and it must be 1914 that started Jesus' "invisible" rule. Lots of other Christians who've falsely prophesied things about the end times have made similar pivots.

this was to be followed by food shortages, pestilences, major earthquakes and people showing little love or concern for their fellow man including their own family members. It was also going to be a time when true Christians would be preaching about God's Kingdom, whilst warning of God's coming judgment. (Matthew 24:3-14; Matthew 28:19-20; 2 Timothy 3:1-5)

All of those things have been happening for 2,000 years, constantly.

Please tell me where our beliefs deviate from what Christ taught.....be specific so I can address them.

The topic wasn't "what Christ taught," but syncretism. Christian, including JW, beliefs are syncretic/pagan in a variety of ways:

Genesis creation myth: pagan
Global flood myth: pagan
Need for blood (human and/or animal) sacrifice to atone for sins: pagan
Dying and rising god/son of a god: pagan
Baptism as an initiation ritual: pagan
Spiritual "mysteries" revealed only to a chosen few: pagan

Time will tell...won't it?

Or it won't. If my bet is correct, all Christians (and humans generally) will just die, lose consciousness, and never regain it again. So none of us will know who was right about all the afterlife squabbles.

 

[Muffled]

You may want to ask Charles Taze Russell, who invented his own version of Christianity combining various elements of movements before him, starting a group that eventually called itself "Jehovah's Witnesses."

Not to mention that Christianity is, in all its manifestations, a syncretic blend of Judaism and paganism.

I believe that is why Quakers, The Church of Christ and the Way International all claim to have gone back to original Christianity. I believe that engenders the question of weather they really know what was original Christianity and whether that is even the best Christianity.

 

[Muffled]

History supports the Bible when we see rulers, dates and historical places. In fact the Bible has often been corroborated when historians believed that it was wrong.
What books about God we all know?

If there is a God who inspired the Bible then all we need to know is contained in its pages.....it presents the big picture when everyone seems to be fixated on a few dead pixels and listening to the the traffic noise outside....

If God has a big picture, what do you think it is?

I believe God has a bigger picture than the Bible. It takes the Qu'ran and pagan myth to figure out what is going on with Adam and Eve.

 

[Left Coast]

I believe that is why Quakers, The Church of Christ and the Way International all claim to have gone back to original Christianity. I believe that engenders the question of weather they really know what was original Christianity and whether that is even the best Christianity.

Indeed. Given the fact that we have basically no clue what the movement was like in its earliest decades, it's an open question what "true," "original" Christianity was really like.