Taliban endorses Trump

[Mindmaster]

Taliban Endorses Trump Re-Election Campaign, Hopes for Total US Troop Withdrawal from Afghanistan

China endorses Biden too through it's propaganda outlets, lol.

I mean, to me it means nothing... Terrorists want us out of their countries because they think it makes thing easier for them, except that no one is leaving until they've left a suitable standing army of native police and military to deal with them. Moving out the troops doesn't mean we're still not supplying armaments, logistic support, and so on.

China sees Biden as good for them and bad for us. Anyway, despite what most people would think there isn't much divide between your average Dem and GOP voter. Most people want the same things -- ease of living, safety, opportunity, and so on. They might have different talking points, but the gap is no where as gigantic as the media portrays.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

China endorses Biden too through it's propaganda outlets, lol.

I mean, to me it means nothing... Terrorists want us out of their countries because they think it makes thing easier for them, except that no one is leaving until they've left a suitable standing army of native police and military to deal with them. Moving out the troops doesn't mean we're still not supplying armaments, logistic support, and so on.

China sees Biden as good for them and bad for us. Anyway, despite what most people would think there isn't much divide between your average Dem and GOP voter. Most people want the same things -- ease of living, safety, opportunity, and so on. They might have different talking points, but the gap is no where as gigantic as the media portrays.

Fundamentally, yes you are right the average voters want the same things.

But over the years those basic desires have been co-opted by the Trump Party in service of the Chosen One. Yes everyone wants safety, opportunity etc but Trump has distorted reality for his supporters to the point that he can bend and manipulate them to his will. I’m sure fascists in the early 20th century wanted safety, opportunity etc too. Trumpism is fascism-lite.

 

[Mindmaster]

Fundamentally, yes you are right the average voters want the same things.

But over the years those basic desires have been co-opted by the Trump Party in service of the Chosen One. Yes everyone wants safety, opportunity etc but Trump has distorted reality for his supporters to the point that he can bend and manipulate them to his will. I’m sure fascists in the early 20th century wanted safety, opportunity etc too. Trumpism is fascism-lite.

This is a really extreme take and it seems like a lot of projection to me. Anyway, the evidence just doesn't bear the analysis... If he was a fascist he'd have already had the lockdown Governors in shackles in some way. That didn't happen, he just stated his interests and let them do their thing. Not exactly the same thing, not even by a long shot. To me, about the most extreme thing had done was deputizing police as federal marshalls. However, he did that at their request, and it wasn't even his idea. Again, not really a clear example of tyranny...

But, I digress... Every Dem wants to blame a Republican, and every Republican wants to blame a Dem. What's the difference between your take and that? I don't see it. And it's just the usual black and white thinking that is so problematic.

 

[Twilight Hue]

No, the Taliban did not endorse President Trump.

Taliban denies endorsing Donald Trump

Lol. It was rather a funny thing at the start.

That would have been a crazy kind of Taliban if they were Trump supporters.

I could just picture them all wearing "Make America Great Again" red baseball caps.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

This is a really extreme take and it seems like a lot of projection to me. Anyway, the evidence just doesn't bear the analysis... If he was a fascist he'd have already had the lockdown Governors in shackles in some way. That didn't happen, he just stated his interests and let them do their thing. Not exactly the same thing, not even by a long shot. To me, about the most extreme thing had done was deputizing police as federal marshalls. However, he did that at their request, and it wasn't even his idea. Again, not really a clear example of tyranny...

But, I digress... Every Dem wants to blame a Republican, and every Republican wants to blame a Dem. What's the difference between your take and that? I don't see it. And it's just the usual black and white thinking that is so problematic.

Mindmaster: let’s just take one issue as an example. Immigration. This is an important issue for many Americans who are struggling with “safety and opportunity”.

To oversimplify things: on one side you have largely white, non-college educated Americans who feel disenfranchised by globalization and its hollowing out of the American middle class. And their allies. They work hard but feel they’ve had a raw deal.

On the other side you have largely low-income people of color with both legal and non-legal status from other countries. And their allies. They also work hard and arguably get a raw deal.

So on both sides you have people who desire “safety and opportunity”, as you said.

So what’s the difference?

The difference is this. One side has ended up the extreme and unusual measures of supporting a wall, separating children from parents at the border, and banning Muslims from traveling into this country. I am not just talking about historical conservative immigration reform; I’m talking about Trumps radical and extreme form of immigration policy, which is entirely different. These are things that hurt “safety and opportunity” for poor groups of color and other nationalities and religions, but will not actually improve safety or opportunity for those non college educated whites. It may make them feel better temporarily.

And further, Trump likely knows this and is just cynically exploiting them.

The other side supports things like DACA, immigration reform, children’s meal programs. These measures will undeniably improve “safety and opportunity” for a lot of low-income Americans who have been left out and left behind ... and will not hurt poor white folks in Appalachia or the rust belt.

So there is an asymmetry here. And it is a fascist tendency.

 

[Cooky]

Mindmaster: let’s just take one issue as an example. Immigration. This is an important issue for many Americans who are struggling with “safety and opportunity”.

To oversimplify things: on one side you have largely white, non-college educated Americans who feel disenfranchised by globalization and its hollowing out of the American middle class. And their allies. They work hard but feel they’ve had a raw deal.

On the other side you have largely low-income people of color with both legal and non-legal status from other countries. And their allies. They also work hard and arguably get a raw deal.

So on both sides you have people who desire “safety and opportunity”, as you said.

So what’s the difference?

The difference is this. One side has ended up the extreme and unusual measures of supporting a wall, separating children from parents at the border, and banning Muslims from traveling into this country. I am not just talking about historical conservative immigration reform; I’m talking about Trumps radical and extreme form of immigration policy, which is entirely different. These are things that hurt “safety and opportunity” for poor groups of color and other nationalities and religions, but will not actually improve safety or opportunity for those non college educated whites. It may make them feel better temporarily.

And further, Trump likely knows this and is just cynically exploiting them.

The other side supports things like DACA, immigration reform, children’s meal programs. These measures will undeniably improve “safety and opportunity” for a lot of low-income Americans who have been left out and left behind ... and will not hurt poor white folks in Appalachia or the rust belt.

So there is an asymmetry here. And it is a fascist tendency.

The difference is that American politics should be based on, and revolve around American citizens, specifically. Not Mexicans. Not Guatemalans. Not Serbians or Afghani's... But Americans.

Another country's problems are their problems. Not ours.

 

[Mindmaster]

So on both sides you have people who desire “safety and opportunity”, as you said.

So what’s the difference?

The difference is this. One side has ended up the extreme and unusual measures of supporting a wall, separating children from parents at the border, and banning Muslims from traveling into this country. I am not just talking about historical conservative immigration reform; I’m talking about Trumps radical and extreme form of immigration policy, which is entirely different. These are things that hurt “safety and opportunity” for poor groups of color and other nationalities and religions, but will not actually improve safety or opportunity for those non college educated whites. It may make them feel better temporarily.

Well, obviously for any government that's honest anyone that's not a citizen of their country is a secondary concern. Sucks, but anyone telling you something different is lying. And, it would be that way if Dems sat in the White House as well, really you're in the sticks here and I don't get it. All of the preceding Dem Presidents were doing exactly the same thing as Trump and even worse. But, let's face it... If they're there a crime has already been committed, and any nation in the world would see it that way. If they don't want their children incarcerated then it's obvious that you should stop bring them with you when you break the law, lol.

Border security is enforced much more harshly in the world, outside of EU-to-EU travel. Jump a border in another country and you're in jail... Not some all expenses covered fenced in hotel. (by comparison anyway...) You're deported ASAP and they don't even give a crap what your problems are. By comparison, the USA is rather lenient. (Though not perfect, it's the complexity that is often at fault.)

I'll reject your white talk on it's face as that's just racist crap and I'll have nothing to do with. You can't start taking about anti-white sentiment right after you go on a tirade about open borders and accepting people to freely immigrate into our country. It's very hypocritical, and worse you and I both know it has nothing to do with skin color, but rather the nationalized status of the individual. If they were a white Mexican and jumped the fence they'd be handled exactly the same way as the darker-skinned one. It's nonsense, and doesn't need to be addressed.

Likewise, the only opportunity and safety that matter are those of US citizens who foot the bill to the government which agrees to provide those services. We don't need to save the world, just ourselves. These people have countries and they can fix them if they want to. We got enough problems. The old 1900's and earlier melting pot idea is just a dead end at this point with the way the world is globalized and with the prevalence of IP theft you are just destroying yourself if you don't completely vet new citizens with scrutiny. You can't be the best and the stupidest simultaneously if you get my drift... No other country nor it's people would be so lenient with foreign people unless it had a death wish. That's essentially where all of these ideas lead to, IMHO.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Although I am not an American so I don't think I have any right to speak on American issue due to my ignorance, but as someone who have military experience, I think America should bring their soldiers home. These guys have suffered enough already. Most people don't know how painful it is being a soldier, being away from your home, family, in foreign soil, full of hostility from locals and facing dangers day and night. Let them breathe a sigh of relief, let them reunite with their family and enjoy some time home, away from the horrors and strains of war.

Besides, American people are fighting a war at their own home. One American friend told me how hard life is in America [due to taxes among other domestic issue I can't recall atm]. These soldiers have their own battles to fight in their own soil for themselves and their loved ones. Give them a break

I think a universal pull out would be a right move but that comes with a warning that in doing so, hostile nations will upgrade their militias and military capabilities if left unchecked to unnerving levels

Down the road we could possibly face another aggressive 'Nazi' war machine and be thrust into global conflict like the last world wars have at the hands of a rogue expansionist government.

Anyways I've oftentimes wondered why peacekeeping isn't done by the UN anymore.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

The difference is that American politics should be based on, and revolve around American citizens, specifically. Not Mexicans. Not Guatemalans. Not Serbians or Afghani's... But Americans.

Another country's problems are their problems. Not ours.

I agree US policy should center around the interests of US citizens.

Did you know that many Mexicans, Guatemalans, Serbians and Afghans are US citizens? Did you know many are here legally, and are friends, family, co-workers, customers etc of US citizens? Curious that you picked those nationalities and not Canadians, Germans etc.

But anyway, the point is that in no event do empty promises of a wall Mexico pays for promote the interests of US citizens. Especially when US spends money on sections of wall that are ineffective and Mexico never pays us back. Even conservatives ridiculed this at the time because it was never a well thought out plan, just a shameless campaign slogan Trump could get away with, since he had no record in government to prove he couldn’t do it. Trump basically admitted that’s what it was. Few conservatives criticize this today, not because it’s been successful but because the Chosen One purged and took over the Trump Party, and has conveniently “forgotten” about this old promise.

Same thing with banning Muslims from entering the US. This may surprise you: many US citizens are Muslim. Many US citizens have Muslim friends and family, customers, co-workers, etc who travel here legally. Therefore, such a ban hurts US citizens. Does it make US citizens safer? Certainly not in the original form Trump attempted to implement, until the courts ruled it unconstitutional multiple times.

He does still cynically accept campaign donations to “Build the Wall” however.

This is what I mean when I say the legitimate concerns of disenfranchised whites have been co-opted by a wannabe fascist leader like Trump.

Many conservatives have for years promoted an “America First” immigration policy. Reasonable minds may disagree on which policy, conservative or liberal, best meets the interests and values of Americans.

But the extreme, absurd stuff pedaled by the Chosen One is a cheap substitute for the real thing. And cheap substitutes are Donald Trump’s lifelong specialty. Much like the fake gold all over his hotels or the fake diploma from his university, his fake hair and fake tan, his fake “reality TV” show and fake Christianity. As President, he imitates what weak people imagine a strong leader looking out for them looks like, just as a businessman he imitated what low-income people imagine a rich man who can make them rich too looks like.

If you think this is just the Republican mirror-image of Obama or Biden, you’re not being nonpartisan ... just inattentive.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I'll reject your white talk on it's face as that's just racist crap and I'll have nothing to do with. You can't start taking about anti-white sentiment right after you go on a tirade about open borders and accepting people to freely immigrate into our country. It's very hypocritical, and worse you and I both know it has nothing to do with skin color, but rather the nationalized status of the individual. If they were a white Mexican and jumped the fence they'd be handled exactly the same way as the darker-skinned one. It's nonsense, and doesn't need to be addressed.

Huh? I don’t believe people should immigrate freely to our country. Where did I say that?

I don’t know what “white talk” you are referring to. I’m talking about the way Trump is a “race baiting, xenophobic bigot”. Do you know who called him that? Lindsay Graham, in 2016. That was before Trump won control of the party and silenced most critics by sheer bullying. Is that the “white talk” you were referring to or was it something else?

I will admit and own that “white talk”. If it offends you, sorry, but I can provide evidence to back up my claim, so I stand behind it. He literally said Mexico is “sending their rapists” when he announced his candidacy. Whatever side of the immigration debate you fall on, conservative or liberal, that kind of race baiting ought to be disgusting and unacceptable (in addition to untrue of course).

He also said there were Muslim terrorists in the migrant caravan and as evidence, there were Muslim prayer rugs left at the border. This is fantasy. Again this kind of nonsense doesn’t serve the interests of US citizens it only serves the denizens of the Land of Make Believe.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

All of the preceding Dem Presidents were doing exactly the same thing as Trump and even worse.

Ah, here is a key area where we disagree. Trump imposed a much harsher policy at the border resulting in separating thousands of children from parents over the course of a month or two. It was stopped by a bipartisan outcry - otherwise it could have been far worse.

Also very doubtful this child separation policy actually improved “safety and opportunity” for people in the Rust Belt. Again, it may have made some of them feel better to use this as scapegoating. These are the elements of xenophobia and fascism I’m talking about.

 

[Mindmaster]

I don’t know what “white talk” you are referring to. I’m talking about the way Trump is a “race baiting, xenophobic bigot”. Do you know who called him that? Lindsay Graham, in 2016. That was before Trump won control of the party and silenced most critics by sheer bullying. Is that the “white talk” you were referring to or was it something else?

Re: Families my understanding was the separation policy was put in effect to determine that the kids were actually traveling with relatives. There have been tons of instances of human trafficking at the border. I rather have them apart and figuring out that information than being forced to shack up with someone who could potentially harm them. Until otherwise confirmed this has been what is going on. If you have some other idea feel free to link it, I'll read. But, otherwise I am pretty sure this is the case. (Melania has said as much, Trump has said the same thing several times, and so on...) You're dealing with people with no documents and just letting the kids go with zero scrutiny is potentially subjecting them to danger. And, that danger would be on our watch.

We can all pull up funny quotes about party leaders. We could talk about how Obama ripped Biden a new one, or in Biden's first run they referred to him as the 'corpse' because he kept plagiarizing speeches from other people and no one believed him. For most people this would be the end of their careers, but Biden somehow managed to hang out. It doesn't change the facts though of who he is. A bottom of his class liar...

The largest growing demographic for Trump voters is actually black males, so I guess if he's a racist he's a bad one. But, I can't but help to notice the irony of using Graham for a quote while being so against the Republican platform. I guess you're willing to ignore that if it serves your purposes, lol.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

But now that this is done, going away isn't going to improve the situation either. You can't change things in hindsight. What brought ISIL to life was the collapse of Irak and Syrian government and the incapacity of Pakistan and US and allies to stamp out Talibans and their Islamist allies. Fleeing in front of them won't make them disapeer. They will simply take back the teritories they have lost and prepare their next wave of attacks.

It's none of our business in the first place. Let them handle their own issues. If they don't want the Taliban ruling them, they'll overthrow them on their own terms. Afghans are a very tough warrior people who never took kindly to occupation. It's been called the graveyard of empires for a reason. They've never been truly conquered or subdued, not even by their own government. The real form of government there are the ancient tribal customs.

Indomitable Afghanistan

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No, the Taliban did not endorse President Trump.

Taliban denies endorsing Donald Trump

How bizarre that a Taliban leader has Twitter. What a world we live in.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Taliban Endorses Trump Re-Election Campaign, Hopes for Total US Troop Withdrawal from Afghanistan

Well, this just keeps getting stranger and stranger.







Trump promises to have the troops home by Christmas.



Trump is bragging that he's killed more than Obama. That's probably true, although nothing to brag about.

One military official said that Trump's promised withdrawal will take much longer.

And Putin endorses Biden. So what? Don't you detect a bit of psychological warfare going on here?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Re: Families my understanding was the separation policy was put in effect to determine that the kids were actually traveling with relatives. There have been tons of instances of human trafficking at the border. I rather have them apart and figuring out that information than being forced to shack up with someone who could potentially harm them. Until otherwise confirmed this has been what is going on. If you have some other idea feel free to link it, I'll read. But, otherwise I am pretty sure this is the case. (Melania has said as much, Trump has said the same thing several times, and so on...) You're dealing with people with no documents and just letting the kids go with zero scrutiny is potentially subjecting them to danger. And, that danger would be on our watch.

If that is the case why did the policy end?

I suggest you read: Family separation under the Trump administration – a timeline

The policy was intended to deter people from seeking asylum by crossing the border - a misdemeanor. You don’t reduce the risk of human trafficking by separating ALL children from their families, regardless of circumstances. THAT was the policy and Trump was forced to end it when many conservatives, including Laura Bush, expressed shock and dismay, and a court issued an injunction. You reduce human trafficking by *reuniting* children with their families.

This was a barbaric, shameful policy that resulted in thousands of children being separated from families unnecessarily without an adequate system to track, care for and reunite them. The whole country was appalled - not just liberals, conservatives too. This was not making the Rust Belt safer it was just misguided xenophobic lashing out.

 

[Stevicus]

And Putin endorses Biden. So what? Don't you detect a bit of psychological warfare going on here?

Yeah, probably that's the case. Personally, I don't really care that the Taliban endorses Trump, but I just found it interesting that someone in media felt it necessary to ask them their opinion on the matter in the first place. It makes me think they should have a UN roll call vote where each country expresses their preference in the U.S. election.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Yeah, probably that's the case. Personally, I don't really care that the Taliban endorses Trump, but I just found it interesting that someone in media felt it necessary to ask them their opinion on the matter in the first place. It makes me think they should have a UN roll call vote where each country expresses their preference in the U.S. election.

Yeah, as long as that is reciprocal. Don't hold your breath.

 

[Suave]

Taliban Endorses Trump Re-Election Campaign, Hopes for Total US Troop Withdrawal from Afghanistan

Well, this just keeps getting stranger and stranger.







Trump promises to have the troops home by Christmas.



Trump is bragging that he's killed more than Obama. That's probably true, although nothing to brag about.

One military official said that Trump's promised withdrawal will take much longer.

I have little doubt the Taliban view Trump as carrying out Allah's will to weaken the infidels with the plague of Covid-19.

 

[epronovost]

It's none of our business in the first place. Let them handle their own issues.

When the Taliban and their allies launch attacks on our soil and that of our commercial partners and allies that's very much our problem and that's precisely what they did and its not like they wouldn't have continued had they not been chased off. Plus, there is this whole human rights catastrophy thing that has to be taken into account. If attacking someone to save a portion of its population from human rights violation is often very touchy and risky, so can be innaction. Countries don't live in bubbles and neither should they.