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Talk to me about Druidry

littlefire

You can call me Fio
Hello lovely people,

Not sure if this question goes here (sorry), but I'm trying to find some resources to learn more about Druidry (and Druid communities in the US, if they exist). I've found some cool websites, but haven't found a lot about what day-to-day being a Druid looks like for real people. If any of you practice Druidry, would you mind sharing a little bit about what you believe and practice, and what Druidry means to you?

Thank you!! <3
-littlefire
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Hello lovely people,

Not sure if this question goes here (sorry), but I'm trying to find some resources to learn more about Druidry (and Druid communities in the US, if they exist). I've found some cool websites, but haven't found a lot about what day-to-day being a Druid looks like for real people. If any of you practice Druidry, would you mind sharing a little bit about what you believe and practice, and what Druidry means to you?

Thank you!! <3
-littlefire

I know it sounds odd - but read THE WHITE GODDESS by Robert Graves.

New Druid groups are guessing at a lot of their practice.

Graves discusses practices all over Europe and how they connect, - where people went, etc.

He has a lot on the Celts, Druids, includes information on tree alphabets and magic, Ogham, Runes, Bardic divination, etc.

He tells us -

"The ancient Celts carefully distinguished the poet, who was originally a priest and judge as well and whose person was sacrosanct, from the mere gleeman. He was in Irish called fili, a seer; in Welsh derwydd, or oak-seer, which is the probable derivation of "Druid"."

Reading this tells you the WHY.

Frazer's Golden Bough also has some information.

*
 

littlefire

You can call me Fio
@Ingledsva Thanks for the info! I will definitely look at both of those books.

This is really a far out question about Druidry but one I'm super curious about if anyone has input: One thing I was thinking about which has been strange for me in researching Druidry is that, as an American (with significant Irish ancestry), the land on which I live was stolen from another people. So the land that I live on and connect with is not my ancestors' land, and I want my spirituality to honor those people that occupied it before me and honor and learn the history both it and they went through... which in the context of Druidry and the importance of ancestors confuses me. How do Druid communities in the United States deal with this?
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Thanks for the info! I will definitely look at both of those books.

Buy a paperback version of White Goddess, as it has over 500 pages, and you will be marking it up so you can find things again. :)

Buy colored highlighters, and post it flags to mark the pages you are most interested in.

Look for it at used book stores, or online.

*
 

littlefire

You can call me Fio
In truth all land is "stolen" from another peoples. The land is the land. It doesn't belong to anyone. American Pagans can connect and worship our gods just as well as anyone from Europe can; the gods know no political boundaries.
That is so true. I guess, because of the ongoing oppression of indigenous peoples in the US, it seemed a little....exploitative? un-circumspect? of me to ignore or otherwise cheapen that reality.
 

littlefire

You can call me Fio
Buy a paperback version of White Goddess, as it has over 500 pages, and you will be marking it up so you can find things again. :)

Buy colored highlighters, and post it flags to mark the pages you are most interested in.

Look for it at used book stores, or online.

*
I actually found a pdf version of it and of Golden Bough online lol...I'm excited to start reading them. :)
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Hmph. Missed this thread earlier somehow. :sweat:

I would not advise referencing something like Graves or Frazier as starting points of any sort. Neither of these works is particularly influential in modern Druidry. Graves is a work of fiction, and Frazier is very dated. If you want to read good, contemporary scholarship on Druidry, stick with modern historians like Ronald Hutton. But Hutton will mostly get you information about historical Druidry, not the new religious movement. For that, you have to listen to the voices of contemporary practitioners... and there is quite a lot of diversity to be had there. Each Druidic order has its own characteristic flavor. ADF is more explicitly polytheistic and has a reconstructionist bent to it. AODA has a heavy naturalist bent to it (and by "naturalist" I mean learning about nature, not philosophical naturalism). OBOD is like a Pagan-flavored version of Unitarian Universalism. All of these simplifications, of course. Visiting each organization's website plus cruising around literature gives you a better taste of the flavors. I can speak best to OBOD (to a lesser extent AODA). This here captures much of the spirit of OBOD and generally reflects my own path:

obod_poster.gif

It's missing a few things I would add, and emphasizes some things that I would not. Biggest thing this poster is missing is a Love of Science. When your gods are literally things like the land, sea, and sky, studying natural sciences is an obvious way to get to know your gods. :D
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Hmph. Missed this thread earlier somehow. :sweat:

I would not advise referencing something like Graves or Frazier as starting points of any sort. Neither of these works is particularly influential in modern Druidry. Graves is a work of fiction, and Frazier is very dated. If you want to read good, contemporary scholarship on Druidry, stick with modern historians like Ronald Hutton. But Hutton will mostly get you information about historical Druidry, not the new religious movement. For that, you have to listen to the voices of contemporary practitioners... and there is quite a lot of diversity to be had there. Each Druidic order has its own characteristic flavor. ADF is more explicitly polytheistic and has a reconstructionist bent to it. AODA has a heavy naturalist bent to it (and by "naturalist" I mean learning about nature, not philosophical naturalism). OBOD is like a Pagan-flavored version of Unitarian Universalism. All of these simplifications, of course. Visiting each organization's website plus cruising around literature gives you a better taste of the flavors. I can speak best to OBOD (to a lesser extent AODA). This here captures much of the spirit of OBOD and generally reflects my own path:





It's missing a few things I would add, and emphasizes some things that I would not. Biggest thing this poster is missing is a Love of Science. When your gods are literally things like the land, sea, and sky, studying natural sciences is an obvious way to get to know your gods. :D

Baloney, you don't actually know about real Druidry if you just study modern reconstructionists.

Frazer is indeed dated, - and dry, - but gives connecting ideas.

Graves' White Goddess is not a work of fiction. It covers a lot of history, and is very interesting.

You seem to be doing what others I've talked with are doing, most of whom haven't read the book, or just don't understood, concerning the movements of people and religious/mythic history. Not having read, or perhaps not understanding the book, - they single out - words, - and assume wrongly about them.

Such as the book covering Poetic Myth, - and these folks deciding the BOOK is just myth.

That is incorrect. He traces religious ideas in history - across the world, with an eye toward the Bards and the meaning behind their works.

As I've said before, I studied Archaeology, and religion. I'm interested in the flow of people, culture, language, religion, and philosophy, across the world.

Is he correct in everything? Absolutely Not. No historian is. However the majority is correct, and gives a good understanding of the whys of particular religious ideas and movements.

As I said, - it should be read with an idea as to the WHY leading to Druidry.

Read it and decide for yourselves - folks. :)

Here is what Good Reads has to say -

"The White Goddess is perhaps the finest of Robert Graves's works on the psychological and mythological sources of poetry. In this tapestry of poetic and religious scholarship, Graves explores the stories behind the earliest of European deities, the White Goddess of Birth, Love, and Death who was worshipped under countless titles. He also uncovers the obscure and mysterious power of "pure poetry" and its peculiar and mythic language.

*
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Baloney, you don't actually know about real Druidry if you just study modern reconstructionists.

:joycat: That you assume that's all I've studied is.... interesting. Given the OP is asking about modern practitioners, I don't see why historical Druidry or fraternal Druidry should be a subject for discussion in this thread. Regardless, this isn't a debate forum, so I'm not going to argue this point with you (honestly, I don't think I would even if this wasn't). All I wanted to say is that neither Frazer nor Graves are good sources of contemporary scholarship for studying Druidry of any sort, whether we're talking historical Druidry, fraternal Druidry, or modern Pagan Druidry. I would not use either as a starting point. Granted, Ronald Hutton is a tall order for a starting point as well given his works are very demanding of the reader. It's probably better to check out Druidcast and search for the episodes that have talks by him. They are a bit easier to follow than his books are. I've heard Phillip's books are good starting points too, but having not read them myself, I can't speak to that. I have read some of Greer's work, and I suppose his short history of Druidry isn't too bad.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
:joycat: 1. That you assume that's all I've studied is.... interesting. Given 2. the OP is asking about modern practitioners, I don't see why historical Druidry or fraternal Druidry should be a subject for discussion in this thread. Regardless, this isn't a debate forum, so I'm not going to argue this point with you (honestly, I don't think I would even if this wasn't). All I wanted to say is that neither Frazer nor Graves are good sources of contemporary scholarship for studying Druidry of any sort, whether we're talking historical Druidry, fraternal Druidry, or modern Pagan Druidry. I would not use either as a starting point. Granted, Ronald Hutton is a tall order for a starting point as well given his works are very demanding of the reader. It's probably better to check out Druidcast and search for the episodes that have talks by him. They are a bit easier to follow than his books are. I've heard Phillip's books are good starting points too, but having not read them myself, I can't speak to that. I have read some of Greer's work, and I suppose his short history of Druidry isn't too bad.

1. I assume nothing about what you have studied.

2. You seem to have missed his - and -

"... I'm trying to find some resources to learn more about Druidry (and Druid communities in the US,...)

3. The only sentence specifically concerning YOU, - Uses SEEM. - I purposely tried to keep the majority of the post general.

"You seem to be doing what others I've talked with are doing,..."

4. Anyone can join any group, dress like them, call themselves the "name," copy the others, etc. But why? Why wouldn't you want to be as "real" as possible? That can only be accomplished by study of the subject. Otherwise one is just a play-actor.

Why would you join ANY group, - especially reconstructionist religious groups, - without doing the background work?

*
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
@Ingledsva , Interfaith Discussion is a discussion forum, not a debate forum. If you want to debate the issue, you need to create a new thread for it. The end.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
@Ingledsva , Interfaith Discussion is a discussion forum, not a debate forum. If you want to debate the issue, you need to create a new thread for it. The end.

You challenged what I said, - with some inaccurate information. Thus a response.

If you were not debating you should have just said, - I recommend _______, ________ .

*
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
You challenged what I said, - with some inaccurate information.

I see. And here I thought we had let go of now debunked works that were once romantically accepted during in the early history of the contemporary Pagan movement as being historically accurate sources of information. My mistake. Carry on with that 1970s mentality! It was a good decade.
 

littlefire

You can call me Fio
I hadn't looked at this thread in a few days and now I have no idea what's happening anymore.
My intent of the thread was to get a basic introduction, what do you as a Druid do and believe, what do modern Druids do and believe, how did Druidry start, historical stuff, etc. So neither of you are wrong.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
The thing is, that's not a simple question.

With respect to historical Druidry, we honestly know next to nothing about them. The only evidence scholars have to work with are third-party descriptions by individuals who we have little reason to believe were impartial or unbiased in their appraisals. We can only speculate. Studying historical Druidry is particularly problematic because there were some early scholars that straight up fabricated information and started creating false narratives. That in of itself is a fascinating story - how the figure of the Druid was manipulated through time for various agendas - and I'd recommend this book in particular to examine some of those themes: "The Druids" by Ronald Hutton (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3092261-the-druids).

As for the history of contemporary Neopagan Druidry, the history of that is much more well-documented. I'm not sure which introductory telling would be the best starting point, but I think the one described in "The Druidry Handbook" by John Michael Greer is probably the easiest to digest of those I have read. The summary by the Order of Bards, Ovates, and Druids is pretty thorough and easy to read as well: The History of Modern Druidism

With respect to what contemporary Druids practice and believe, that's really not a simple question.
As I suggested earlier, different orders have different flavors, and not all contemporary Druids operate within one of the established orders either. And, as I suggested earlier, the best way to get a sense of the flavor is to look at the material created by the various orders for yourself to get a sense of that diversity.



 

VioletVortex

Well-Known Member
From a non-Druidic perspective, I would say that Druidry is a reconstruction of ancient Celtic Paganism. In modern times, our knowledge about it and it's Pantheon is not nearly as extensive as that of the Germanic and Greco-Romantic Pantheons. Because of this, Druids do not necessarily have to worship a particular pre-named group of deities. Some see it as more of a philosophy based in natural law than anything.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Druidry is and isn't a reconstruction of Celtic Paganism. It depends on what Druidry we are looking at. Speaking just to OBOD (which I'm more familiar with), while the correspondence course draws inspiration from Celtic lore as well as Paganism, the Order does not require members identify as any sort of Pagan or any sort of Celtic. It's said that Druidry is the sort of philosophy or religion that can be combined with whatever path you are already on, including monotheistic religions like Christianity. How "Celtic" you make it is up to you. That's the case in ADF as well, as while they're more explicitly Pagan (polytheist), they are Indo-European, meaning an ADF Druid could be focusing on a historical assemblage of gods other than Celtic.

It's hard to say what the thread is that ties the various contemporary Druid organizations together, but I think that love of nature might be on the list. That's particularly emphasized in AODA, whose study course directly involves studying sciences and natural history (one thing I love about it). ADF adds scholarly excellence and research to that list, and OBOD adds a love of the arts and bardic inspiration. To me, being a Druid means encapsulating multiple roles - the scientist, the artist, the researcher, the storyteller, the philosopher, the teacher, the learner... and more.
 

VioletVortex

Well-Known Member
Druidry is and isn't a reconstruction of Celtic Paganism. It depends on what Druidry we are looking at. Speaking just to OBOD (which I'm more familiar with), while the correspondence course draws inspiration from Celtic lore as well as Paganism, the Order does not require members identify as any sort of Pagan or any sort of Celtic. It's said that Druidry is the sort of philosophy or religion that can be combined with whatever path you are already on, including monotheistic religions like Christianity. How "Celtic" you make it is up to you. That's the case in ADF as well, as while they're more explicitly Pagan (polytheist), they are Indo-European, meaning an ADF Druid could be focusing on a historical assemblage of gods other than Celtic.

It's hard to say what the thread is that ties the various contemporary Druid organizations together, but I think that love of nature might be on the list. That's particularly emphasized in AODA, whose study course directly involves studying sciences and natural history (one thing I love about it). ADF adds scholarly excellence and research to that list, and OBOD adds a love of the arts and bardic inspiration. To me, being a Druid means encapsulating multiple roles - the scientist, the artist, the researcher, the storyteller, the philosopher, the teacher, the learner... and more.

I did hear that the Druids had very deep traceable roots back to Ukraine, the origin of the Indo-Europeans. The Celts do descend from the Druids, right?
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I did hear that the Druids had very deep traceable roots back to Ukraine, the origin of the Indo-Europeans. The Celts do descend from the Druids, right?

I'm still in the process of learning about these things (though when am I not... haha!), but I have not run across the idea of tracing Druidry to the Ukraine. From what I have read, it sounds sketchy to me considering how very little is known about historical Druids.

From what is known, we wouldn't say Celts descended from Druids as much as Druids seemed to be a special class or role within what we call Celtic society. The exact nature of that role is not known, as we only have a few third-party accounts from Julius Caesar, Cicero, Tacitus, and a few others to go by. The Wikipedia article is actually a pretty decent overview: Druid - Wikipedia
 
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