Taoism and Recreational Drug Use?

[zenzero]

Friend Alceste,

Thanks for that sharing.
Personal understanding is that meditation is the key to transcend the THOUGHTS.
Once that is known, rest like use of such plants or drugs are secondary as if one reaches that *no Thought* zone even for a split second then that itself keeps making the way even religions as a way like ladders becomes redundant, drugs drop out easily.
In fact after that physical matter become gross and the journey is towards the subtle which is why in sanatan dharma there are three categories of beings like tamasic, where the individual is totally unconscious and looks to remain so and so go after drugs etc. The next is Rajasic who are conscious to an extent about their own rights, power, wealth rather are materialistic and would prefer drugs for entertainment, etc. The last is sattwick who are spiritualist and slowly for them meditation itself is the drug without taking any drug as the experience of that no-thought zone itself becomes the driver.

Love & rgds

 

[Raymond Sigrist]

Pleasure to see you here Raymond.

I would respectfully add that it seems to depend on the drug. Studies into the effects of psilocybin appear to show deep and lasting spiritual awakenings in many subjects in controlled laboratory experiments. It seems particularly helpful for people who suffer from depression. The risk of psilocybe mushrooms is that they can aggravate pre-existing mental illness - particularly schizophrenia.

I agree Alceste, a drug can reveal the dynamics of awakening, and later one can return to that dynamic process with or without the drug. Thanks for the welcome.

 

[dust1n]

Friend Alceste,

Thanks for that sharing.
Personal understanding is that meditation is the key to transcend the THOUGHTS.
Once that is known, rest like use of such plants or drugs are secondary as if one reaches that *no Thought* zone even for a split second then that itself keeps making the way even religions as a way like ladders becomes redundant, drugs drop out easily.
In fact after that physical matter become gross and the journey is towards the subtle which is why in sanatan dharma there are three categories of beings like tamasic, where the individual is totally unconscious and looks to remain so and so go after drugs etc. The next is Rajasic who are conscious to an extent about their own rights, power, wealth rather are materialistic and would prefer drugs for entertainment, etc. The last is sattwick who are spiritualist and slowly for them meditation itself is the drug without taking any drug as the experience of that no-thought zone itself becomes the driver.

Love & rgds

Very interesting, never seen it broken down like that.

Thank you everyone for your commentary!

 

[wmjbyatt]

"Psychedelic" comes from the Greek "psychke-" for "mind" and "delios" for "to make manifest. Psychedelic literally means "to make the mind manifest."

Furthermore, there are a class of psychedelic users who call themselves "psychonauts." These are people who use the drugs in order to search their own minds and explore the depths of the psyche. This manner of use can lead us to the Tao.

 

[Master Vigil]

This manner of use can lead us to the Tao.

I have to disagree. What we have to remember when it comes to Taoist thought... is that to be one with Tao, one must learn to be CONTENT. There is no "searching". There is no "exploring". There is simply accepting. If you want to understand Tao... be like water. And water does not need psychedelic drugs to understand itself.

 

[wmjbyatt]

Master Vigil, I was not speaking theoretically. Psychedelics have a capacity to forcibly un-fill our cups and leave room for the Tao. In the midst of a powerful psychedelic experience, we can reach a point where our only chance for survival is to surrender and find contentment. I don't know if psychedelics can lead one to the Tao if one is SEARCHING for it--I'd suspect not, but at the same time, I have a suspicion that the class of impossible actions is much, much smaller than we would normally grant--but I can assure you, quite certainly, that psychedelics can lead someone into The Way by accident.

Consider: For as long as psychedelics have been culturally popular, ego death experiences have been reported. Psychedelic ego death being, as it is, very real, it can show us (again, accidentally) the deep and concrete reality of Chapter 13 of the Tao Te Ching:

"Both praise and blame cause concern,
For they bring people hope and fear.
The object of hope and fear is the self

For, without self, to whom may fortune and disaster occur?

Therefore,
Who distinguishes himself from the world may be given the world,
But who regards himself as the world may accept the world."

- Wm J Byatt

 

[zenzero]

Friend wmjbyatt,

Welcome to RF!
Personal understanding is that though *Reporting* is not necessary to confirm *egodeaths* as you label it; has been the goal of all who walk the *path/way/religion*.
Drugs/intoxicants are generally avoided by those on the path/way is because some may not be able to transcend the mind for which they take such drugs/intoxicants and remain in the mind and allow the mind to fall below and remain in the karma trap.
It is a individual's choice and dharma has nothing to do with it. This is also true that DHARMA wants everyone to be free of every attachments be they drugs or buddhas.

Love & rgds

 

[wmjbyatt]

Psychedelics are only valuable as an introduction to the Way. To use intoxicants to stay on the Way is, most likely, a mistake (although, to be fair, Li Po was a drunk). To paraphrase a wise man, I would never recommend drugs to anyone. But it's worked for me. I think my point is that there is no action or course of action outside of the Way. All actions, all methods, all the Ten Thousand Things are within the dominion of the Tao, and as such all things--including intoxicants--have valuable lessons they can teach (or un-teach) us.

 

[zenzero]

Friend wmjbayatt,

Yes, we are speaking the same thing.
Yes personally too use of marijuana helped and have dropped too.

Love & rgds