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Taoism and Recreational Drug Use?
- Thread starter dust1n
- Start date
TurkeyOnRye
Well-Known Member
Nothing. Taoism in itself is hardly even a philosophy, as there are no beliefs.
Last edited:
Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
Religious Taoism would be all for it, in some ways... as long as it leads to immortality. However, the drugs you are probably referencing here... would not. There is an intense desire to sharpen one's senses, or be more aware so to speak in Eastern Thought. While the drugs you are referencing do the exact opposite.
Herr Heinrich
Student of Mythology
I agree with the above statement. I think that they would be counterproductive to what a Taoist is trying to achieve.
Raymond Sigrist
raymond sigrist
The realization of de ( 德 )is one where you realize that you are potentially free ( 解 ) of all expectations, whether your own, or those of others. Some folks have realized this for a short time after taking drugs. But for it to stick, one has to learn how to maintain it all the time, independent of any device, e. g. drugs.
dust1n
Zindīq
I wasn't referencing any particular drug...
dust1n
Zindīq
What should a Taoist be trying to achieve?
TurkeyOnRye
Well-Known Member
I disagree. Any drug could potentially be the fuel to light the fire of self-realization. Some are more appropriate than others in this sense, but all drugs have the capacity to dissolve old emotional patterns and grind down aspects of the ego. The only requirement is that the user MUST have proper direction and a genuine intent to learn rather than just play.
Herr Heinrich
Student of Mythology
Perfection of self. From reading about Scholar Warriors this is what I have gathered. Also basically becoming one with Tao. I think that is considered the ultimate goal. Maybe I have no idea what I am talking about, but I am pretty sure that is part of it.
dust1n
Zindīq
Oh, I don't know anything about it, I'm just asking, but I don't see how drug use necessarily hinders the perfect of the self or the becoming of one with the Tao.
dust1n
Zindīq
I'm not sure they connect at all.
dust1n
Zindīq
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend dust1n,
If your understand Lao Tzu who never would have written Dao Te Ching unless compelled to as he makes it clear in the 1st stanza itself:
So by speaking [naming] it; it is falsified.
So in reality there is nothing as Taoism or Taoist they are just labels given only for an understanding.
Love & rgds
If your understand Lao Tzu who never would have written Dao Te Ching unless compelled to as he makes it clear in the 1st stanza itself:
So by speaking [naming] it; it is falsified.
So in reality there is nothing as Taoism or Taoist they are just labels given only for an understanding.
Love & rgds
dust1n
Zindīq
Alceste
Vagabond
I take this verse to be relevant to the OP (Derek Lin's translation):
The five colors make one blind in the eyes
The five sounds make one deaf in the ears
The five flavors make one tasteless in the mouth
Racing and hunting make one wild in the heart
Goods that are difficult to acquire make one cause damage
Therefore the sages care for the stomach and not the eyes
That is why they discard the other and take this
I read that as a caution against excess - in order to appreciate the subtler highs in life it is best to avoid getting whacked off your face every night.The five sounds make one deaf in the ears
The five flavors make one tasteless in the mouth
Racing and hunting make one wild in the heart
Goods that are difficult to acquire make one cause damage
Therefore the sages care for the stomach and not the eyes
That is why they discard the other and take this
I don't take any of the philosophy of Laozi or Zhuangzi to be prescriptive. There do not appear to be any authoritarian edicts on how you must behave until Confucius comes along. I find it's better to take the tao te ching as a study of cause and effect. So, rather than "Never touch the stove", you see "If you touch the stove when it's hot, you will get burnt." The ultimate decision whether or not to touch it is yours and the tao doesn't (can't) care about your choice. The tao simply ensures that your hand is burnt when you choose to touch the stove, and is not burnt when you don't.
That said, it seems highly unlikely that pre-Abrahamic or non-Abrahamic cultures that were aware of herbs or fungi that can be used to induce transcendent, euphoric altered states of consciousness would not use them. What reason for prohibition could there be outside the constraints of our own puritanical, moralistic, self-denying, nature-hating culture?
Alceste
Vagabond
Pleasure to see you here Raymond.
I would respectfully add that it seems to depend on the drug.
Studies into the effects of psilocybin appear to show deep and lasting spiritual awakenings in many subjects in controlled laboratory experiments. It seems particularly helpful for people who suffer from depression. The risk of psilocybe mushrooms is that they can aggravate pre-existing mental illness - particularly schizophrenia.
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend Aceste,
Yes, for your information kindly be informed that drugs have been and are used by MEDITATORS specially in India like grass & charas which have been found helpful; however they are not a must. Personally though had started taking them for recreation purposes but it turned out for the better as meditation happened on its own accord after using them. Had used them hardly for about 3 years and since last 25 years am without them and find no need for them.
Love & rgds
Yes, for your information kindly be informed that drugs have been and are used by MEDITATORS specially in India like grass & charas which have been found helpful; however they are not a must. Personally though had started taking them for recreation purposes but it turned out for the better as meditation happened on its own accord after using them. Had used them hardly for about 3 years and since last 25 years am without them and find no need for them.
Love & rgds
Alceste
Vagabond
That seems to be a feature of plants used for the elevation of consciousness - people who give them the proper respect tend to get to a point when they lose interest in the drug quite naturally. I have used a number of natural things to induce altered states of consciousness. I know I am a much more satisfied person because of my experiences. Some revelations I have had while my consciousness was altered have become permanently integrated into my perspective and have had sweeping beneficial effects. But, I wouldn't say they are necessary. I am not a disciplined person, so maybe these plants were the only way I would have been able to experience these states - I don't think it's in my nature to commit to a daily meditative practice which can bring the same or similar effects naturally.