Taoist communities/groups

[Scarlett Wampus]

Close to where I live there is going to be a small (westernised of course) Taoist Arts community set up. I've met some of the people involved online and they seem to know what they're doing. You can see the project webpage here.

(btw, the picture of the woman on the beach with the small exotic looking island out to sea is not near their planned location but it is to where I live. I walk along that beach at least a couple of times a week!)

I think its a bold & exciting move to attempt something like they're proposing. There is a Yoga community who have done something very similar here. It worked for them so I hope it works for these guys.

Is there anything vaguely Taoist going on local to where you live? Would you want there to be / would it make any difference to you?

 

[ChrisP]

Nope. I don't know a single other Taoist. I find it's better that way to be honest. If I knew another I'd end up comparing notes.

 

[PureX]

Hmmm ... taoist art, that seems redundant. *smile*

I have a background in fine art, and much of my experience of taoism comes from there. Although, I don't recall any of my artist friends specifically calling themselves taoists. But certainly, the idea of letting the artwork tell the artist what it wants to be and what to do next is an integral part of making art that is also an integral part of practicing taoism. I found that the practice of making art and the practice of taoism are so intertwined that I can't hardly conceive of one without the other.

The only folks I've known, though, that actually called themselves taoists and practiced it, were into some form of martial arts - usually forms that were based on the goal of longevity.

 

[the_Unknown]

Grouping together as a defined entity limits you.

True 'taoists' would not name the tao or consider themselves anything.

 

[Master Vigil]

When I first started teaching at my local Holistic Center, I would converse about Tao with the other Chi gong, and Tai Chi instructors. However, the "talking" seemed to allow no conversation of Tao to commence. The most intuitive conversation of Tao I've had with another Taoist took place when we each had nothing to say.

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

Great posts! I love you guys :bounce

Grouping together as a defined entity limits you.

True 'taoists' would not name the tao or consider themselves anything.

Still possible to work within groups though, but yeah absolutely, Tao is always beyond definition. Like PureX said about Taoist Art, the idea of a Taoist (Tao-Chia) community seems redundant. I think I'll have more fun going to see what's happening when those people set up their thing because of that.

Nope. I don't know a single other Taoist. I find it's better that way to be honest. If I knew another I'd end up comparing notes.

Very personal thing no? Tao of ChrisP is unique, can't be shared, taken or given, just lived?

What if you met some woman who was into Taoism; absolutely beautiful, highly intelligent, sexy and wealthy, who said, "Oh Chris I've never met another Taoist before. I would love to hang out and do Taoisty things."? What if her eyes went all big and watery and she said, "please Chris, it gets so lonely doing this stuff by myself all the time."?

Its ok, I know its awkward. I'd come save you and tell her to leave you alone.

 

[PureX]

Grouping together as a defined entity limits you.

True 'taoists' would not name the tao or consider themselves anything.

Not necessarily. It's the "tao of man" to name things as a way of pretending that he "understands" them, and can therefor control them. Understanding that the names actually stiffle true understanding, and that control is only an illusion, doesn't mean the man stops being a man. In fact, were he to presume so, he would be a Buddhist, and not a taoist. *smile*

 

[d.]

Grouping together as a defined entity limits you.

it could limit you, and it could help you overcome your limits.

it would completely depend on the situation and context, which is why general statements of this kind so often falls flat. in any case, i wouldn't think it would limit anyone irretrievably?

True 'taoists' would not name the tao

yet you just did. maybe we better stop speaking altogether?

 

[ChrisP]

Very personal thing no? Tao of ChrisP is unique, can't be shared, taken or given, just lived?

What if you met some woman who was into Taoism; absolutely beautiful, highly intelligent, sexy and wealthy, who said, "Oh Chris I've never met another Taoist before. I would love to hang out and do Taoisty things."? What if her eyes went all big and watery and she said, "please Chris, it gets so lonely doing this stuff by myself all the time."?

Its ok, I know its awkward. I'd come save you and tell her to leave you alone.

Hahah you'd be needing to save her mate

But yes. I was raised to mentally detach (as opposed to heart/mind detach) As soon as there is something to compare things to the over-thinking over analysing begins and the truth of the situation vanishes into whatever my mind creates. Power of the imagination no?

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

Hahah you'd be needing to save her mate

If you insist.

But yes. I was raised to mentally detach (as opposed to heart/mind detach) As soon as there is something to compare things to the over-thinking over analysing begins and the truth of the situation vanishes into whatever my mind creates. Power of the imagination no?

Good upbringing! I wasn't raised to be that way (as is likely evident by now) and that's why I think I'm drawn to this stuff.

 

[ChrisP]

If you insist.


Good upbringing! I wasn't raised to be that way (as is likely evident by now) and that's why I think I'm drawn to this stuff.

Well, I guess if you like it I really don't see it as a good thing. It took a long time before both heart and mind learned to operate as a unit, and emotionally I'm generally a wreck It's been an interesting learning experience. Including body in to the mix should be easier. Apathy has been touted as a part of the path around the Tao forum, which I agree with, but the complete extent to which it swallows the emotion one when completely mentally detached is just plain bad (note this is mental detachment not heartmind detachment)

Learning your heart first is best

 

[PureX]

I don't think taoism suggests or promotes apathy, or even detachment, necessarily. I think it's more about letting go of the self-centered fears and desires that lead us into the illusion that through greater effort and knowledge we can force the world to comply with our desires, and thus alleviate our fears. Taoism sees this as a form of insanity in that it denies the reality of our place within the whole, as part of the whole, and instead presumes a position outside of and having dominion over the rest of existence. The goal of the practice of taoism is honesty and humility, not the denial or exorcism of our humanness.

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

PureX I would agree with what you said completely. Some of the things that are written give the impression the Taoist Sage doesn't care much about anything. There is a subtlety to it though. Detachment that comes from surrender & openness is what its about, not denial or avoidance. Honesty & humility really are the vital things. I like the word authenticity in regard to that. Authentic pain, authentic joy, authentic confusion, authentic clarity, authentic stupidity, authentic wisdom; you have to 'keep it real' and not cheat.

I would say this is extremely hard. That might be taken to suggest that hard work will lead to greater awareness of Tao. Nope, people work extremely hard for all sorts of reasons and it wouldn't fit to say that such people are more in harmony with the Tao than others. People who take it easy aren't necessarily more in harmony either. There is no way of manufacturing Taoist enlightenment. This is why its so rare, it doesn't work like we try to. Firmly understanding that it (i.e. everything that is real) can't be avoided or captured except by trying to avoid or capture it is the realisation that matters, and there is no way of realising that without giving it all up for authenticity, to be as authentic as possible. Blah, blah, blah - there is no path of least resistance other than the path of least resistance. That path cannot be defined! It has to be engaged with directly.

Detachment, grace, humility, harmony, compassion, etc. all these things cannot be forced except in an artificial sense.

 

[ChrisP]

PureX I would agree with what you said completely. Some of the things that are written give the impression the Taoist Sage doesn't care much about anything. There is a subtlety to it though. Detachment that comes from surrender & openness is what its about, not denial or avoidance. Honesty & humility really are the vital things. I like the word authenticity in regard to that. Authentic pain, authentic joy, authentic confusion, authentic clarity, authentic stupidity, authentic wisdom; you have to 'keep it real' and not cheat.

Detachment, grace, humility, harmony, compassion, etc. all these things cannot be forced except in an artificial sense.

I agree with everything you've both said. If you do something "there is no try" ... this doesn't mean whatever you do will "succeed" the outcome is not the point for Tao. The "doing" or "action/non-action" in the sense of doing what comes naturally is (wow... boy I'm confusing myself). UNconscious commitment, not having that niggle in your heart/mind that's doubtful or in two minds. Oneness of being, oneness of action without premeditation.

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

:yoda: "There is no try". Awesome.

At the moment I'm falling in love with a woman. Because my "feelings for her are strong" I keep catching myself thinking of ways or trying to do things to make her like me the same way in a dishonest or inauthentic fashion. I can only let things go as they go and accept whatever happens. Thats the hard part, luckily after 29 years I've had some practice at this!

 

[PureX]

PureX I would agree with what you said completely. Some of the things that are written give the impression the Taoist Sage doesn't care much about anything. There is a subtlety to it though. Detachment that comes from surrender & openness is what its about, not denial or avoidance. Honesty & humility really are the vital things. I like the word authenticity in regard to that. Authentic pain, authentic joy, authentic confusion, authentic clarity, authentic stupidity, authentic wisdom; you have to 'keep it real' and not cheat.

I would say this is extremely hard. That might be taken to suggest that hard work will lead to greater awareness of Tao. Nope, people work extremely hard for all sorts of reasons and it wouldn't fit to say that such people are more in harmony with the Tao than others. People who take it easy aren't necessarily more in harmony either. There is no way of manufacturing Taoist enlightenment. This is why its so rare, it doesn't work like we try to. Firmly understanding that it (i.e. everything that is real) can't be avoided or captured except by trying to avoid or capture it is the realization that matters, and there is no way of realizing that without giving it all up for authenticity, to be as authentic as possible. Blah, blah, blah - there is no path of least resistance other than the path of least resistance. That path cannot be defined! It has to be engaged with directly.

Detachment, grace, humility, harmony, compassion, etc. all these things cannot be forced except in an artificial sense.

I agree.

I think a lot of folks confuse taoism with Buddhism, in that they imagine that taoism is about attaining some sort of intellectual or spiritual goal. But it's not. One can be in alignment with the tao and realize it, or one can be in alignment with the tao and not realize it. Our awareness of the tao is not a prerequisite of our being aligned with it. And our "misalignment" with it is in a way only an illusion. The tao is what is. Even our insane attempts at denying or controlling the tao are part of the tao. So our "goal" if there is any, is to relax and let go of the idea that we need to "do something". Instead, we can "be something" - we can be honestly and humbly ourselves. This is authenticity. The tao is the tao, and we are a part of the tao, this is so regardless of our efforts, or of our awareness.

Understanding this brings us peace and gratitude (joy), but they aren't the goal. They're just some of the gifts that come with being human, and being a part of the tao.

 

[ChrisP]

:yoda: "There is no try". Awesome.

At the moment I'm falling in love with a woman. Because my "feelings for her are strong" I keep catching myself thinking of ways or trying to do things to make her like me the same way in a dishonest or inauthentic fashion. I can only let things go as they go and accept whatever happens. Thats the hard part, luckily after 29 years I've had some practice at this!

wow, our lives must be in sync... I'm experiencing exactly the same thing atm. It's easy to be an arse (as in donkey, but the damn filter won't let me type that.) but if you let things happen as they will.... all goes so much better

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

PureX. yeppers :yes:. One thing though: -

I think a lot of folks confuse taoism with Buddhism, in that they imagine that taoism is about attaining some sort of intellectual or spiritual goal. But it's not.

I don't think this could be said to be a difference between Taoism and Buddhism. Buddhists can come to see that what is termed Buddha-mind is no different from their own mind, that everything is in place. Its just not common. Whenever Taoism is talked about those words appear to suggest Taoism has goals too. Tricky matter really.

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

wow, our lives must be in sync... I'm experiencing exactly the same thing atm. It's easy to be an arse (as in donkey, but the damn filter won't let me type that.) but if you let things happen as they will.... all goes so much better

:cloud9: :foot: :dan::sad:
I hope it does! Regardless of what happens love is rarely boring at least.