Teacher Beheaded near Paris

[PureX]

Teaching has a big impact on some people. Teach that killing in the name of god is still teaching

No one ever HAD TO believe what they were taught. No one.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

FYI

If Anyone Slew a Person (Qur'an 5:32) - WikiIslam

5:32 doesn't say what you think it says, or what apologists like to pretend it says.

WikiIslam is an Islam bashing site with a lot of bs on it. That is not a reputable source.

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

Why do I have the feeling we are going back to the dark ages? What's next? Burning people on a public fire?

We already are, and I've seen burning people on a public fire and things far sicker than it.

 

[Altfish]

No. That religion is a bastardization, misuse and abuse. The God of the Old Testament and God of the New Testament are not, in my opinion, the same God. Or at least he’s looked at differently by the time of Jesus.

Even then I’m not convinced that God is actually as he’s portrayed. I know our Jewish friends can shed more light, because afaik Jews don’t view him as a bloodthirsty vengeful tyrant.

I’m not Christian anymore not because of its God but simply because the theology and cosmology don’t mesh with what and how I believe reality and God are.

Aren't The Ten Commandments in the Old Testament?

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

WikiIslam is an Islam bashing site with a lot of bs on it. That is not a reputable source.

Heh. I remember back when I was a Muslim [about 6-7 years ago, I think], I refuted most of the WikiIslam AND Britain First's lies in just few sitting without even doing any homework.

Seriously, guys, intrawebz is full of lies and deception, and hypocrites with their own agendas.

Please make a critical assessment of your sources. I make assessment even about sites that discusses things I hate in negative ways. Let's not get swayed by such deceivers.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If something is deemed blasphemous against some deity, let that deity do the smiting, if it offends them so.....man is a 3rd party intervener, sticking their noses into business that is no business of theirs.
probably because their gnosis don't work right

Like the Greek Olympian gods. They had no problems punishing those who pissed them off themselves. They were quite creative with their punishments. Lol.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Heh. I remember back when I was a Muslim [about 6-7 years ago, I think], I refuted most of the WikiIslam AND Britain First's lies in just few sitting without even doing any homework.

Seriously, guys, intrawebz is full of lies and deception, and hypocrites with their own agendas.

Please make a critical assessment of your sources. I make assessment even about sites that discusses things I hate in negative ways. Let's not get swayed by such deceivers.

Indeed. Any site that promotes the "Allah is a moon god" crap needs to go in the garbage with the rest of the trash.

 

[Nakosis]

A man wielding a large knife attacked and beheaded a teacher near Paris. The teacher had shown caricatures of Mohammad in the classroom.

Can everyone agree that beheading someone for a caricature, even of Mohammad, is unreasonable and is to be condemned?

I can't imagine for any reason being able to justify beheading someone.
You are taking this person away from people who care for them and/or depend on them.
The ego of the person who can justify this action to themselves has to be really dark.

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

Indeed. Any site that promotes the "Allah is a moon god" crap needs to go in the garbage with the rest of the trash.

Indeed, a blatant lie while Qur'an EXPLICITLY instructs this:

Quran 41:37: Do not prostrate to the sun or to the moon, but prostrate to Allah, who created them.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Their believing has absolutely no bearing on the original instructions of the text.

Except that in day to day life in the real word in the present day, it's the "original instructions" that have absolutely no bearing to what actually happens today.

It doesn't actually matter what the "original intent" was. What matters is how it is lived, practiced and implemented TODAY.

We can argue all day long that blasphemers, apostates or gay people aren't to be killed according to the "original" instructions. Meanwhile, the actual killings continue as a direct result of the religious beliefs of the killers.

Many Nazis has pseudo-scientific teachings incorporated in their sick ideologies too. Let me cut/paste

Darwinism and the Nazi Race Holocaust
by Dr. Jerry Bergman on November 1, 1999
Originally published in Journal of Creation 13, no 2 (November 1999): 101-111.

Abstract
Leading Nazis, and early 1900 influential German biologists, revealed in their writings that Darwin’s theory and publications had a major influence upon Nazi race policies.

Hitler believed that the human gene pool could be improved by using selective breeding similar to how farmers breed superior cattle strains. In the formulation of their racial policies, Hitler’s government relied heavily upon Darwinism, especially the elaborations by Spencer and Haeckel. As a result, a central policy of Hitler’s administration was the development and implementation of policies designed to protect the ‘superior race’. This required at the very least preventing the ‘inferior races’ from mixing with those judged superior, in order to reduce contamination of the latter’s gene pool. The ‘superior race’ belief was based on the theory of group inequality within each species, a major presumption and requirement of Darwin’s original ‘survival of the fittest’ theory. This philosophy culminated in the ‘final solution’, the extermination of approximately six million Jews and four million other people who belonged to what German scientists judged as ‘inferior races’.

Darwinism and the Nazi Race Holocaust


Now, I am a believer of evolution and Darwin's theory, but would it be rational if I blame Darwin, theory of evolution and science for what Nazis did? That would be absurd

That would indeed be absurd.

The difference is, off course, that a theory of biology and a religion like islam are nothing alike.

The theory of biology merely explains biological facts and doesn't give any instructions on how to organize a society or how to treat people. Religion does.
Science is not to be accepted without questioning. Religion is.
In science, question is actively encouraged.
In religion, it is the opposite.

 

[ChristineM]

No one ever HAD TO believe what they were taught. No one.

Tell that to the believers...

 

[Jainarayan]

Aren't The Ten Commandments in the Old Testament?

Yeah they are... and? What’s your point?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

On the other hand maybe it was, since Muhammad did behead certain persons.

Sawing someone's head off with a dull knife is not the traditional method of execution by beheading anywhere. It was done using an extremely sharp (well, it was supposed to be) sword or a heavy axe in a quick strike. It was viewed as an honorable way to die. These modern jihadists are just trying to torture and scare people. They do not follow the Islamic laws of warfare. There is a long tradition of Muslim warriors (think Saladin) and these loons have nothing to do with that. You're not supposed to kill civilians, or women or children. This is dishonorable, at least.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Their believing has absolutely no bearing on the original instructions of the text.

It doesn't happen without the original instructions from the text. They've been fighting against the West for so long that many of them it has been their entire life. I would say that is grounds for justifying combat as self-defense. The same for sectarian conflicts in the area. Just as they can turn to their passages to justify executing blasphemers and apostates and further that those who don't agree are the ones guilty of corrupting and twisting the faith. "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you" has a great deal of wiggle room for interpretive differences and major discrepancies.
Christians do it to each other all the time. We know this as a "no true Scots" informal fallacy. But there is no way to settle the issue. We have Muslims who are peace and excellent people. The same goes for Christians. But we also have Muslims and Christians who are radicals, who are dangerous, and who pose varying degrees of threats and dangers to those who believe differently. They are all inspired by their holy text, all reading the same passages. We can't separate this.
It's not like when Elizabeth Forster-Nietzsche took an unfinished manuscript of illness-fueled ramblings from her brother Friedrich and heavily twisted them into something else to present to the Nazi Party. It's not even like the "Social Darwinism" that frequently gets tied to Darwin, and, as the tired argument goes, means Darwin influenced the Nazis. Social Darwinism did, and that itself a crappy idea wrapped in a layer of dung, where we find this idea of "survival of the fittest." That idea is basically the antithesis of what Darwin did speculate about social animals and the emergence of morality. Herbert Spencer was an economists who started this, who took what Darwin scientifically wrote about biodiversity and the emergence of it and how it was driven by natural selection and applied it to a non-scientific field, in a non-scientific way, and regardless did promote it as science. There is no Social Darwinism without his works.
There is still a Bible that commands its adherents to kill those who worship other gods. That's straight from the primary source. Not someone writing about how they interpret it, not an "add on" collection of dubious nature, it's not even a holy man with an agenda. It's straight from the horses mouth, as they say.

 

[Nakosis]

Teaching has a big impact on some people. Teach that killing in the name of god is still teaching

Wow!

Yes, I was just thinking this. It is not so much the religion as the religious leaders who teach this garbage. Maybe they use the Koran and Muhammad as props, but it's the people teaching this is God will who need to be found out and condemned.

We can condemn the act but someone filled their head with this. I don't think we can justify freedom of religion where this is being taught.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

So... I can use these verses to justify doing my self-imposed duty of ridding the world of bad guys because a text I take seriously says I can? I’m not really killing or harming anyone, just removing him from play? No I cannot, because that’s not what it’s saying. I have my issues but I’m not that far gone. The guy is deluded and deranged.

17. Know that Reality, by which everything is pervaded, to be indestructible. No one can cause the destruction of this immutable Being.

18. What is said to perish are these bodies, in which the imperishable and unlimited Spirit is embodied. Therefore fight, O scion of the Bharata race!

19. He who thinks him (the Self) to be the killer, and who experiences him (the Self) as the killed - both of them know not. He (the Self) neither kills nor is killed.

20. He (this Self) has neither birth nor death. Nor does he cease to be, having been in existence before; unborn, eternal permanent and primeval, he is never killed when the body is killed.

21. O Arjuna! know this self to be eternal, undecaying, birthless and indestructible. A person who knows him to be so - whom can he slay or cause another to slay.

22. Just as a man gives up old garments and puts on new ones, so the embodied self abandons decrepit bodies and assumes new ones.

23. Him the weapons cleave not; Him the fire bums not; Him the waters wet not; Him the wind dries not.

24. He cannot be cut or burnt. He can neither be wetted nor dried. Eternal, all-pervading, immovable and motionless. He is the same for ever.

25. Knowing Him (the Self) to be unmanifest, inconceivable, and unmodifiable, it is improper to mourn for Him.

26. In the alternative, even if you hold him (the Self) to be subject to constant births and deaths, there is no justification, O mighty armed, for your mourning for him.

27. For the born, death is unavoidable; and for the dead, birth is sure to take place. Therefore in a situation that is inevitable, there is no justification for you to grieve.

28. Mystery surrounds the origin of beings. Mysterious too is their end. Only in the interim, between birth and death, are they manifested clearly. Such being the case, what is there to grieve about?
...

30. At no time can the Spirit embodied in all beings be slain. Therefore there is no reason for you to grieve for any one.

You're missing the point.

Beliefs inform actions.
He did what he did, because of what he believes religious. Just like the millions of other jihadists.
Just like with the witch burnings back in the day by christians.

I agree these people are deranged and delusional. Doesn't change what I said.
His beliefs drove him to this action.

I repeat my question: do you think he would have done this if he weren't a radical muslim?
I'll go ahead and assume that your answer is "no".

If the answer is "yes", then please explain. And perhaps give an example of a non-muslim beheading someone while screaming "allahu akbar" as punishment / revenge for "insulting" Mohamed .

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Why do I have the feeling we are going back to the dark ages? What's next? Burning people on a public fire?

"next"?

Think of a brutal way to execute someone and chances are rather huge that ISIS already did it in the past few years.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

To "believe" is a choice. And what we choose to "believe in" is likewise, a choice. And we are responsible for those choices. No one else. No one can reach into our heads and control our brains and make us believe, or not believe, anything. And no one can make us "believe in" anything so wildly, and so irrationally, that we could choose to torture or kill someone else.

Stop blaming religion for the insanity people choose to engage in, in it's name. Put the blame where it belongs: on those who willingly chose to commit these acts.

These acts aren't committed in a vacuum. They don't occur out of thin air.
There are underlying motivations and reasons for it.

You can make up any excuse you want. It doesn't change the facts.
The radical islam these people follow, informs actions such as the one mentioned in the OP.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Teaching has a big impact on some people. Teach that killing in the name of god is still teaching

Exactly. I spend my childhood hating myself and gays and trans people, not because of what some fire and brimstone baptist pastor was saying, but because it was in the Bible. It's very clear that it considers homosexuality is a capital crime, "yes I know, for the Bible tells me so." Then you add the fire and brimstone baptist pastor and the teachings fester and metastasize.
(We also tend to forget many of the more unsavory ones, such as how Christianity too actually does instruct women to cover up, and it's OT that rebellious kids are to be killed).
These extremist ideas don't materialize out of a vacuum. They have a source. And that source is so very frequently and typically the religion itself.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No one ever HAD TO believe what they were taught. No one.

Sure. They don't have to believe anything.
But they do. And this is the result. I don't see the point in being in denial about that.