Teacher: Christian faith prohibits treating transgendered students with respect and dignity

[Prestor John]

I think it was a perfect question. And it is great that you feel that way, but what of the teacher refused still. Saying they were aware of your want and your child's want to be called a particular sex but they thought doing so would be a lie based on how they believed.

What would be the appropriate recourse?

It would be inappropriate for me to demand that other people act according to my ideology when they disagree.

I personally believe that the whole of Mankind are the literal children of God, does that mean that I can demand that everyone refer to me as their brother?

You have to act according to my personal belief, even if it directly opposes your own?

I can believe all I want that I am your brother, but I can't make you call me such or believe as such.

Transgendered people can believe they are the opposite sex all they want, but they can't make me refer to them as such.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't have much sympathy for Christians, but just to show I can be more charitable than the bigots in this thread, here's an example of Christians being tolerant
Church of England approves transgender clergy guidance for welcoming trans Christians

I just started attending an Episcopal parish (American branch of Anglicanism) and it's quite lovely. It's a happy balance between traditional theology and liturgy and an inclusive, progressive social policy. I can't wait to go again on Sunday. The people were very welcoming, too. I only regret not looking into it sooner!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Transgendered people can believe they are the opposite sex all they want, but they can't make me refer to them as such.

Don't expect any trans person you come across in your life to put up with such treatment. Your attitude may end up costing you relationships with people. Someone in your family may end up being trans. I know of many trans people whose families refuse to accept them and who misgender and dead name them on purpose. It just leads to resentment and broken families. How very "Christian".

 

[Curious George]

It would be inappropriate for me to demand that other people act according to my ideology when they disagree.

Are you suggesting there should be no recourse?

I personally believe that the whole of Mankind are the literal children of God, does that mean that I can demand that everyone refer to me as their brother?

If I was a teacher at a school and you were enrolled as "brother" and you preferred to be called "brother," i would have no issue calling you that and would think anyone that refused to call you that because doing so would be a "lie" was silly.

You have to act according to my personal belief, even if it directly opposes your own?

Nah. It is more situational.

I can believe all I want that I am your brother, but I can't make you call me such or believe as such.

Transgendered people can believe they are the opposite sex all they want, but they can't make me refer to them as such.

No one is making anyone do anything. But there are consequences for your choices.

 

[Sanzbir]

Well if you work in a field where everyone is forced to pay you for your services whether they want to or not, you had better accommodate the customer in way they wish!!

The parents are being forced to pay you, so teach the kid and call the kid whatever they want. You are being paid to do this, and your paycheck is forcibly extracted from those people. On what moral ground can you force them to pay you for something you then refuse to do??

If you don't like that, then go work in some honest profession where you don't have people forced to pay you. Then you can feel free to treat your customers in whatever manner best fits your beliefs, and they are free to refuse to pay you money in turn.

But if you're forcing people to give you a paycheck, give them the services you are claiming to offer in exchange, and either accommodate them in their beliefs or give them a full refund so they can go off and find someone willing to do so.

 

[Shad]

Yes, but when one takes on certain jobs those rights are curtailed due to interaction with the public. As a school teacher his rights to express his religious beliefs are limited. For example a biology teacher will not be able to espouse creationist beliefs in most states. Those beliefs are not supported by science. This is a similar situation. When one takes a job dealing with the public one needs to be aware that one does not have the same rights as he has in private life.

Employee religious accommodation are a thing. Well at least if one is a minority religion.

 

[shmogie]

Like you pretending to be a decent human being and a follower of Jesus.

Interesting response. So, recognizing the scientific fact that one cannot change their sex, the truth, and pointing out that since it cannot be done, those who claim it has been done to them, must be pretending, makes me an indecent human being.

These facts don't influence how I relate to them, they are one of God's children, you apparently assume I am hostile to them, which certainly isn;t the case,

Here is the issue, you demand that I think like you, that I abandon the physiological truth.

You want to control my thoughts till I believe up is down, blue is green, and men can turn into women and vice versa.

It ain't happening, for me, and millions of others.

In my career I have encountered a man who believed he was satan, another who castrated himself with a razor blade, because he thought any sexual thought would condemn him to hell and a woman who believed she was a witch and could turn herself into any animal. I disrespected none of them, and as far as I was concerned , they were free to believe whatever they thought themselves to be,I knew the truth.

So get off the groupthink shtick and worry about how people treat one another, and quit demanding that they think like you

 

[Shad]

Well if you work in a field where everyone is forced to pay you for your services whether they want to or not, you had better accommodate the customer in way they wish!!

The parents are being forced to pay you, so teach the kid and call the kid whatever they want. You are being paid to do this, and your paycheck is forcibly extracted from those people. On what moral ground can you force them to pay you for something you then refuse to do??

The school isn't a private one but one created by government mandate. The teacher does not force anyone to pay him nor does the teacher have any contract with the parents. Also merely paying for a service in general does not mean the customer can make requests of any nature and the other party is forced to comply.

If you don't like that, then go work in some honest profession where you don't have people forced to pay you. Then you can feel free to treat your customers in whatever manner best fits your beliefs, and they are free to refuse to pay you money in turn.

Again a government mandate not a contract with parents.

But if you're forcing people to give you a paycheck, give them the services you are claiming to offer in exchange, and either accommodate them in their beliefs or give them a full refund so they can go off and find someone willing to do so.

You clearly have no idea what systems are involved. Your points are moot.

 

[Shad]

If I was a teacher at a school and you were enrolled as "brother" and you preferred to be called "brother," i would have no issue calling you that and would think anyone that refused to call you that because doing so would be a "lie" was silly.

That is your personal choice. Why is the same choice not given to this teacher?

 

[shmogie]

Well if you work in a field where everyone is forced to pay you for your services whether they want to or not, you had better accommodate the customer in way they wish!!

The parents are being forced to pay you, so teach the kid and call the kid whatever they want. You are being paid to do this, and your paycheck is forcibly extracted from those people. On what moral ground can you force them to pay you for something you then refuse to do??

If you don't like that, then go work in some honest profession where you don't have people forced to pay you. Then you can feel free to treat your customers in whatever manner best fits your beliefs, and they are free to refuse to pay you money in turn.

But if you're forcing people to give you a paycheck, give them the services you are claiming to offer in exchange, and either accommodate them in their beliefs or give them a full refund so they can go off and find someone willing to do so.

How far does "accomodate them in their beliefs" go ?

Should one call a car a stagecoach because someone believes it is ? Or call a black student "Zulu Chief" because he believes he is one ?

So, the demand was to call a girl, a girl when you taught her before, a boy, a he, even though you know she is a she ?

Their beef was about words HE DID NOT USE, not about words he used.,

So, if you communicate with a girl who thinks she is a boy, and use no pronouns like he or she, THAT IS WRONG ?

One can be fired for what they didn't say ?

No, the words weren't the issue at all, once again it was a demand to embrace the idea that a female at birth can become a male. It is a demand to conform to a concept and acknowledge it as true, when it is scientifically impossible.

Groupthink cannot change the physical laws of the universe, no matter how hard it tries, and believes it has.

 

[Shad]

Nonsense. Calling people what they ask to be called is simple, basic respect.

Except the teacher did by using the student's name which was changed. Pronouns are not used in direct speech anyways.

You know, like teachers are required to demonstrate.

There was no reference to any policy being broken ergo no requirement.

 

[shmogie]

If you read the article there was an mistake which he used a pronoun rather than a name. A mistake he admits to. If you read further the admins ordered him to use pronouns, rejected his name compromise and fired him for insubordination. The Admin, as I said above, is a low pay grade tyrant. Ie The type of person that gets the tiniest of power and lets it go to their head.

I agree, PC tyranny.

 

[Curious George]

That is your personal choice. Why is the same choice not given to this teacher?

How was the teacher not? The teacher here chose to behave with silliness and is no longer employed. Seems fitting.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Religious liberty and free speech are human rights, and you are using the strawman fallacy. He did not say not to respect people, he just reserves the right to religious liberty and free speech. If I were him, I would sue on First Amendment grounds.

Right. Because "free speech" includes the right to force your ugly religious bigotry onto any and every person you meet-- never mind THEIR rights. Sure, sure.

Except, the "teacher" is an Employee of the State-- because it's Public Education. This means, he must comply with State Guidelines with respect to Free Speech-- because there really is no such thing as Unlimited Free Speech.

You cannot, for example, falsely yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater, no matter you want to video a "Performance Art Piece On Frightened Mobs Trampling Each Other To Death".

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Religious liberty and free speech are human rights.

But. Religious Liberty is limited to you and you alone. You do not get to force your hateful religious practices onto anyone else.

The "teacher" was in a position of Superiority, and a State Employee too: He was subject to state guidelines with respect to his students.

He broke those rules-- he was legally fired for cause. He can sue all he wants-- but his behavior was illegal, and he will lose. Bigly.

 

[Vinayaka]

It's gotta be tough, being a trans student. Then to have bigotry and hatred thrown at you ... little wonder the suicide rate is so high amongst certain groups.
There was a teacher in my school district who finished his transition over a summer. So in June he was a Mr., and in September he was a Miss. He resigned three weeks into the year. I didn't know her, but I can only guess what she went through.
I changed my name legally in the middle of a school year, (not nearly as drastic, but still) over December break. Put an announcement on the staff room wall, and announced it to my class first thing in the morning. Kids (Grade 4) thought it was cool. I got one chicken-____ cat call from a high school smart alec and a few off looks, or comments from staff. But 99% of it was just respect for the individual.
Respect, not a chance with this guy. He deserved to be fired and will be lucky if some sort of lawsuit doesn't show up. I'm sure a good lawyer could come up with some harassment arguments. I'm glad people are standing up. Good on the school board.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Geez, give the kid a break, why not? No one gets to dictate the life style of another person if no one else is being harmed.

Doctors don't know the whole story because I don't have thousands of Dollars to pay for all the tests, and Genetics is very complicated. I know they say I am XXY Non-Kleinfelter's, and possibly some sort of Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, meaning Testosterone is ineffective to one extent or another. The prejudice and condemnation I've faced has been quite painful. Shrinks just dump me in the Transgender bucket, but I'm Intersex. Grrrrr

So here this kid is just trying to do the best he can, and some jerk decides its his place to run his life, and to hell with teaching French. I'd say he could call the kid what he wants but no pay for French teaching?

Well said.

 

[SomeRandom]

Is no one going to bring up that by doing so the guy is being completely unprofessional? The kid wants you to call him him. It's not that difficult. Just do your job and I dunno pray for his soul later or something. I don't care.
Also the Christian Faith prohibits treating trans people with dignity and respect? What an insult to Jesus' teachings. Whatever happened to the Golden rule? He disrespected the student. He should expect the same treatment according to Jesus.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It's a tragic thing, really, that religion cannot deal with the totality of what it is to be human. In this particular case, for example, how a person's brain (which, in my view, is really the "who" of a person) functions cannot be nearly as important as the configuration of little bits of flesh between their legs.

There seems to be an assumption that there really are only 2 kinds of humans, and all of their parts must fit neatly together as either one, or the other, with no other configuration possible. Such people suppose that if you were born with a vagina rather than a penis, then your fingernails, your hair, your skin, your heart and your brain are also likewise female. And your attractions must, of necessity, be aimed at the opposite gender.

But the reality has been demonstrated through so much solid research that this is simply not the case. But for the religions, research is and must be wrong if it disagrees with what the religion dictated thousands of years ago -- without the tiresome need to do any research at all.

Sad...

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

It is a bit of an object lesson for anyone hell bent on standing up for their principles. Those days are over, unless of course, your principles are in alignment with political correct doctrine, then you can do whatever you like.

You're still free to exercise your principles as long as they're legal, but you may have to pay a price for it. We went out to pick up a pizza last night because the only alternative was to order delivery pizza from a man whose politics we abhor. He is free to speak his mind, but at a price that I hope he understands he is paying and is willing to pay.

For a society and or Institution to force a person to say one thing or another under some kind of idiotic threat of not being PC enough , that Society can **** off with hopefully a stern reminder that such a society or business still has a lot of growing up still to do.

Nobody is forced to say anything. Feel free to express yourself, and others will express how they feel about that in return. If it's you boss, you might be fired.

Incidentally, I have a few opinions that I don't feel like sharing knowing what the blowback would be. I don't feel particularly oppressed by that. It's just the rules of the game.

I do not think a lot are respectful. I think many are cowed and mouthing platitudes, afraid they might lose their "Progressive" creds if they don't toe the line.

For what it's worth, I call people what they prefer, and don't see that as particularly liberal of me. It's just good manners.

Religious liberty and free speech are human rights.

Some people might agree with you, but human rights generally refers to rights that everybody is seen as having by virtue of being human, such as the right not to be tortured, enslaved, or starved.

find it hypocritical when the far left ONLY goes after Christians.

What's hypocritical about that? Are they saying one thing and doing another?

The government has no right to dictate religious liberty and free speech.

The government has the right to define the limits of religious freedoms and free speech.

to deny your own physiology is certainly being dishonest with yourself.

No more so than denying your psychology.

no one should pander to your delusion

Even if it's a religious belief? several posters have indicated that it is inappropriate to conflate religious belief with delusion.

PC tyranny

I think you misspelled tranny.

Now I've stepped in it. Oh well - I'll pay the price.