Teen pregnancy in Europe vs the US

[Kathryn]

I often hear the allegation that Europe's teen pregnancy rates are so much lower than the US teen pregnancy rate - and this is supposedly because their culture is so much more liberal and secular than the US and therefore more "advanced" and superior to that of the US.

(By the way, the lowest teen pregnancy rate in the world is in South Korea, at 2.9 per 1000. South Korea is also one of the most conservative countries in the world socially. Their society condemns sex outside of marriage, and their country has one of the lowest rates of HIV in the world. Sex education in school is very limited and scant on details.

I find it interesting that South Korea is among the least diverse populations in the world. Also - there basically is no such thing as single motherhood in South Korea. If you get pregnant outside of marriage, you give the baby up for adoption - PERIOD. There is basically a zero tolerance level in that society for unwed parenthood. It is considered an absolute disgrace and the child of such a union is generally ostracized.)

http://articles.sfgate.com/2003-03-...uth-koreans-united-nations-hiv-prostitution/3

The highest teen pregnancy rates are in Sub Saharan Africa.

I'd like to share a few facts regarding European and US teen pregnancy rates and then hear some discussion on the topic.

I believe that we cannot get a complete picture of the issue without also taking into consideration ethnicity, abortion rates, and the way in which the statistics are gathered and reported.

European countries are individually much smaller than the US, and are much more homogenous - with less diversity in regard to ethnicity, education levels, and income. This also needs to be taken into consideration when comparing data and forming an opinion on many different matters, including teen pregnancy.

In 2006 rates of teen pregnancy in the US were as follows:

71.5 pregnancies per 1000 young women ages 15-19
41.9 births per 1000 young women ages 15-19
32.6 abortions per 1000 young women ages 15-19

By race:
African American young women 15-19: 126.3 pregnancies per 1000
Non Hispanic white young women 15-19: 44 pregnancies per 1000
Hispanic young women 15-19: 126 pregnancies per 1000

In general, states with the highest number of teens had the highest number of teen pregnancies. New Mexico had the highest teen pregnancy RATE and and New Hampshire had the lowest.

Teen abortion rates were highest in New York and lowest in South Dakota.

Teen birthrates were highest in Texas and lowest in New Hampshire.

If you include DC - which is not a state - DC has the highest teen pregnancy rate in the United States.

New York has the highest pregnancy rate for African American teens.
Alabama has the highest pregnancy rate for Hispanic teens.
Arkansas has the highest pregnancy rate for white teens.

Abortions are much more common in the Northeast and Nevada, and the lowest in the Western Plains states, while births are much more common in the Southwest (Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Arkansas) and Mississippi.

Hispanic population is much higher in the Southwest and South. Figures do not take into account whether or not a teen is married.

Hispanic cultural norms include younger ages for marriage, more tolerance for single parenthood, and less tolerance for abortion.

Another note - abortions are not as easily tracked because all states do not use the same method of reporting abortions.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/USTPtrends.pdf

Now - onto Europe:

It's much more difficult to sort through European birthrates because all countries do not report these rates in the same fashion. For instance, Holland reports a very low birthrate for women under age 20 (7 per 1000) but they include ALL females under age 20, including girls under age 10 and even infants.

As for abortions, Europe in general has tighter abortion laws - generally abortions strictly limited after 17 weeks. Counseling and waiting periods are more common than in the US. There is more of a stigma associated with abortion in many European countries, who still are heavily influenced by the Roman Catholic Church. Methods of reporting abortions are at least as inconsistent as the methods throughout the US. In fact, early abortions are generally not even classified as abortions throughout Europe - they are termed "menstrual extraction" instead. Often a pregnancy test is not even used - when a young woman misses her period, she is simply given a "menstrual extraction." So - the data is harder to compile.

In Holland -

The number of pregnancies in young women:
55.2% were in non-Dutch young women, and 13% were Dutch
Muslim teens had the highest pregancy rates, followed by ethnic Africans

Teenage pregnancy and ethnicity in the Netherlands: frequency and obstetric outcome; The European Journal of Contraception and Reproductive Health Care - 5(1)ages 77-84 - Informa Healthcare

In Great Britain, black and Caribbean girls had much higher pregnancy and abortion rates than white British girls:
Black girls to be the targets of plan to cut teen pregnancy - Times Online

I couldn't find much info on teen pregnancy by race in Germany - in fact, none at all. If anyone knows a source, I'd like to see it. I did find this:
Social issues in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article points out that the higher the poverty rate, the higher the teen pregnancy rate for Germans. I do know that ethnic minorities and immigrant groups in Germany have much higher poverty rates than ethnic Germans, so I think it's a safe assumption that their teen pregnancy rates are higher. That's the implication, anyway.

I was very frustrated trying to find any information that broke down teen pregnancy rates in Europe by ethnicity. Many European countries have significant groups of minorities within their borders - and I was curious about their pregnancy rates vs. ethnic French, German, etc.

It was interesting to me that this information is readily available in regard to the US, but not in regard to other developed countries. Wonder why that is?

 

[dust1n]

I think the US would be more like South Korea and take babies away from unwed mothers...

 

[Alceste]

It was interesting to me that this information is readily available in regard to the US, but not in regard to other developed countries. Wonder why that is?

Mainstream Europeans frown on racial profiling.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

I often hear the allegation that Europe's teen pregnancy rates are so much lower than the US teen pregnancy rate - and this is supposedly because their culture is so much more liberal and secular than the US and therefore more "advanced" and superior to that of the US.

(By the way, the lowest teen pregnancy rate in the world is in South Korea, at 2.9 per 1000. South Korea is also one of the most conservative countries in the world socially.

Korea is a country with one-sixth the population of the United States and has more abortions per year─South Korea Aborts 1.5 Million Unborns Yearly.
And yet, abortions are illegal in South Korea.

Vote Life, Canada!: South Korea Aborts 1.5 Million Unborns Yearly

I don't think that South Korea is a country we should play follow the leader in this area.

More comments to follow.

 

[monta]

http://www.crisispregnancy.ie/factsandfigstwo.pdf
http://www.crisispregnancy.ie/pub/FactsandFigures.pdf
Some interesting reading , I assume the other countries have similar reports.

Ireland birthrate is below replacement level, the average age of 1st pregnancy 28 years, in the last few years the number of births to woman under 20 and the number of abortions have decreased, despite the fact that the age at which people are having sex has dropped, (The Catholic Church here tried to block sex education btw, and recieved much derision and were ultimately told to butt out by the government, teachers and parents) Stranger adoptions are also down to 62 children.

I think we are in a census year again, so that will be interesting to read.

 

[Kathryn]

Mainstream Europeans frown on racial profiling.

How is it racial profiling to report FACTS?

Societal norms and expectations play a part in teen pregnancy - as well as any other issue.

If you don't think that there's such a thing as Hispanic culture or African American culture - or Cajun culture, Italian American culture - whatever - I suggest you take a little road trip through San Antonio, Memphis, New Orleans, and New York.

Like it or not, there ARE differences between groups of people - generally speaking. Just as there are many similarities - there are differences as well. Some good, some bad.

In Central Europe - there are HUGE differences between the ethnic neighborhoods (ethnic Germans, French, etc) and, say, predominately Muslim neighborhoods, or predominately African neighborhoods (speaking of neighborhoods that are predominately immigrant and first generation populations).

No use in denying it.

If you want to understand, truly understand, an issue rather than simply slapping an ideology or theology on it - you can't be afraid to look at all the facts.

 

[MSizer]

Teens have sex, they always have had sex, and they always will have sex. The only responsible position IMO is to equip them with all of the information so that they can do it responsibly. Race has no impact on whether education benefits a person or not. Education always benefits a person.

 

[Mr Cheese]

I was very frustrated trying to find any information that broke down teen pregnancy rates in Europe by ethnicity. Many European countries have significant groups of minorities within their borders - and I was curious about their pregnancy rates vs. ethnic French, German, etc.

Maybe because we arent as obcessed by rascist and bigoted sub divisions of homosapiens....unlike Americans...:sarcastic

 

[Mr Cheese]

How is it racial profiling to report FACTS?

Societal norms and expectations play a part in teen pregnancy - as well as any other issue.

If you don't think that there's such a thing as Hispanic culture or African American culture - or Cajun culture, Italian American culture - whatever - I suggest you take a little road trip through San Antonio, Memphis, New Orleans, and New York.

Like it or not, there ARE differences between groups of people - generally speaking. Just as there are many similarities - there are differences as well. Some good, some bad.

In Central Europe - there are HUGE differences between the ethnic neighborhoods (ethnic Germans, French, etc) and, say, predominately Muslim neighborhoods, or predominately African neighborhoods (speaking of neighborhoods that are predominately immigrant and first generation populations).

No use in denying it.

If you want to understand, truly understand, an issue rather than simply slapping an ideology or theology on it - you can't be afraid to look at all the facts.

I suggest you stop clining to outmoded 19th century science

culture is culture.... we are discussing biology here
homosapiens are homosapiens

frankly as Alceste has alluded, american sub divisions on such things..are regarded as outdated bigotry by many europeans.....

 

[Mr Cheese]

Teens have sex, they always have had sex, and they always will have sex. The only responsible position IMO is to equip them with all of the information so that they can do it responsibly. Race has no impact on whether education benefits a person or not. Education always benefits a person.

very well said

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Maybe because we arent as obcessed by rascist and bigoted sub divisions of homosapiens....unlike Americans...:sarcastic

I believe that this is an area Americans do better then the Europeans. Immigrants feel much more a part of are culture then most European societies.
We have less problems with home grown Islamic extremism the you guys do... Why? They feel more comfortable excepted in our country. I am not saying that racism is not a part of American life. It is a big part especally in the middle part of our country. But we put much more energy to fighting it then you do.

The riots in france were much worse then anything we have seen in many years.

 

[Mr Cheese]

I believe that this is an area Americans do better then the Europeans. Immigrants feel much more a part of are culture then most European societies.
We have less problems with home grown Islamic extremism the you guys do... Why? They feel more comfortable excepted in our country. I am not saying that racism is not a part of American life. It is a big part especally in the middle part of our country. But we put much more energy to fighting it then you do.

The riots in france were much worse then anything we have seen in many years.

maybe so...different debate

an englishman is an englisman.

There is no afro carribean englishman
no chinese englishman
no swedish englishman

they are just englishmen....

so the problem of finding different "racial" groups to find birth rate statistics arose
we simply don't do that in Europe. Why? its anti science and rascist

Americans however seem obcessed with saying african americans, chinese americans, dutch americans etc...... instead of AMERICANS!

But then many americans are stupid and actually believe in different races as a biological reality still.... or justify it as a cultural difference, that allows us to take unrealistic inherantly rascist looks at different groups. It all boils down to different demographics and catogories... that in my opnion is still a part of the institutionalised rascism of america

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

But then many americans are stupid and actually believe in different races as a biological reality still....:

Americans do have an educational system that sucks. (Except at the college level ) So Americans are stupid about lots of subjects.

It's also important to remember that there are two Americas. The middle part that tends to be very patriotic and religious who dont want to pay any tax for stuff like education. The coasts that are much more like Europe. The interesting thing about the differences. The Red States ( middle part of the country that don't want to pay tax's ) tend to be welfare states that can't support themselves. In California for every 1$ we pay in taxs only .70 comes back in to the state. Most red states take much more Tax money then they pay. So the liberals are subsidizing the conservatives life style. They never say thank you. In fact they say that they are the real Americans. I don't know what we are fake Americans.

 

[Kathryn]

Look here, stupid white people:

I am not saying that there are BIOLOGICAL differences between the races. I am saying that there are CULTURAL differences between different cultural groups within countries. In the US, we have a very wide variety of different CULTURAL groups - more variety than most European countries. These groups have DIFFERENT teen pregancy rates - in spite of the fact that the schools are integrated and ALL the kids are attending the same sex ed classes at the SAME SCHOOLS.

I do know that there are different ethnic groups in European countries and that they often live quite separately from the ethnic Europeans - often much more separately than the different ethnic groups live in the US.

So I think it's a legitimate question to ask - what are the immigrant/first generation/racial groupings teen pregnancy rates in European countries? I wonder why I can't find much info on this topic?

Why is it such a shocking or shameful question?

If one wants to address and correct a problem, one must seek first to understand. In order to understand an issue, we have to collect facts and data.

Anyone who claims that there are not cultural differences between, say, an ethnic French family living in a small town in France and an immgrant Muslim family living in the inner city slums of Paris is putting their head in the sand. It's a truth that must be dealt with on many levels.

One of those levels is the pregnancy rate of these groups. Pregnancy rates greatly shape the future of a country.

 

[Kathryn]

Americans however seem obcessed with saying african americans, chinese americans, dutch americans etc...... instead of AMERICANS!

But then many americans are stupid and actually believe in different races as a biological reality still.... or justify it as a cultural difference, that allows us to take unrealistic inherantly rascist looks at different groups. It all boils down to different demographics and catogories... that in my opnion is still a part of the institutionalised rascism of america

Just so you know - it's generally not the "white" Americans who are clamoring for a hyphenated designation - it's the minority groups themselves. For whatever reasons, many people like to cling to the cultural identities that they believe make them unique.

Americans don't deny the truth that cultural differences exist. Generally speaking, we LIKE these differences and believe that they have enriched our society. Like I said in an earlier post - take a trip through Memphis, New Orleans, New York City, or San Antonio and you will see that we REVEL in our delicious mix of cultural heritages.

This isn't racism - it's the byproduct of a heritage rich in diversity, which is a difference between the US and many European countries.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Look here, stupid white people:

In the words of the Great western philosopher Curly ( of the three stooges)

I represent that remark.

 

[Kathryn]

LOL, I hope you know I was saying it facetiously!

 

[Smoke]

I am not saying that there are BIOLOGICAL differences between the races. I am saying that there are CULTURAL differences between different cultural groups within countries. In the US, we have a very wide variety of different CULTURAL groups - more variety than most European countries. These groups have DIFFERENT teen pregancy rates - in spite of the fact that the schools are integrated and ALL the kids are attending the same sex ed classes at the SAME SCHOOLS.

I'm not convinced, though, that "African-Americans" and "Non-Hispanic White Americans" constitute distinct cultural groups in the U.S. I suspect that if you studied a poor white family from Tampa, a poor black family from Tampa, a rich white family from Baltimore and a rich black family from Baltimore, you would probably find that each family had more in common culturally with its regional and socioeconomic counterpart than with its "ethnic" counterpart.

That is, to the extent that American culture is heterogeneous, race is probably not the defining characteristic of that heterogeny. Regional, socio-economic and religious factors are probably more significant than race.

If black American teenagers are more likely than white American teenagers to give birth, should we assume that reflects a cultural difference between black and white Americans? Or are there other factors at work?

I don't have hard data to back up my guess, and I don't have time to look for it right now, but I'll make two predictions:

1) When you do more research, you'll find that the rate of teenaged mothers is higher among poor girls, among girls whose parents are less educated, and among girls from religious families, and

2) you'll find that this correlation holds regardless of race.

If my hunch is correct, you'll also find that African-American girls are more likely to be poor, more likely to be religious, and less likely to have well-educated parents than white girls.

 

[Erebus]

maybe so...different debate

an englishman is an englisman.

There is no afro carribean englishman
no chinese englishman
no swedish englishman

they are just englishmen....

so the problem of finding different "racial" groups to find birth rate statistics arose
we simply don't do that in Europe. Why? its anti science and rascist

Americans however seem obcessed with saying african americans, chinese americans, dutch americans etc...... instead of AMERICANS!

But then many americans are stupid and actually believe in different races as a biological reality still.... or justify it as a cultural difference, that allows us to take unrealistic inherantly rascist looks at different groups. It all boils down to different demographics and catogories... that in my opnion is still a part of the institutionalised rascism of america

After growing up during the race riots of Oldham, I can assure you that ethnicities DO become divided in England. The thing is, the racial division in England varies as much as the dialects do, so different areas often have pretty different forms and degrees of racism.
In Oldham, it was a division between Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and "whites", whereas a couple of hours drive away in Nottingham it's mostly a black vs white thing (or so I've been told).

 

[Buttons*]

Maybe because we arent as obcessed by rascist and bigoted sub divisions of homosapiens....unlike Americans...:sarcastic

Oi That's not nice or true