Teen 'sport killings' of homeless on the rise

[Bishka]

MILWAUKEE, Wisconsin (CNN) -- All Nathan Moore says he wanted to do was smoke pot and get drunk with his friends.


Killing Rex Baum was never part of the plan that day in 2004.
"It all started off as a game," Moore said.


The 15-year-old and his friends were taunting the homeless man -- throwing sticks and leaves -- after having a couple of beers with him.


No big deal, Moore says, but he's sorry for what came next.
It was a mistake, he said, a sudden primal surge that made him and his friends Luis Oyola, 16, and 17-year-old Andrew Ihrcke begin punching and kicking Baum.


"Luis says 'I'm gonna go hit him,' We're all laughing, thought he was joking around,'" but he wasn't, Moore concedes. "We just all started hitting him."


They hurled anything they could find -- rocks, bricks, even Baum's barbecue grill -- and pounded the 49-year-old with a pipe and with the baseball bat he kept at his campsite for protection.


Ihrcke smeared his own feces on Baum's face before cutting him with a knife "to see if he was alive," Moore said.


After destroying Baum's camp, the boys left the homeless man -- head wedged in his own grill -- under a piece of plastic where they hoped the "animals would eat" him.
Then, Moore says, they took off to grab a bite at McDonald's.
Baum's murder was indicative of a disturbing trend.

What should we do about this? What can be done? What sort of feelings for the guilty does this make you feel?

Link here

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

Reaction: :149: :fight:

That is so WRONG. Unbelievable. We need to start by giving everyone of those boys AT LEAST life in prison. But what can we do about things like this that could, and will, happen in the future? I don't know. I am really upset that anyone would do that for no reason whatsoever! NO REASON! I mean, usually there is some motive for murder, but there was no motive here! Just some harmless middle-aged man who wasn't bothering them. *grrr...* What losers. They must be losers, or else they would have better things to do than torture and kill homeless people.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

I think it's a symptom of a bigger problem that these kids have no respect for themselves or the lives of other people. One of the CSIs Miami? had a similar story line, and I think the kids who do this should have to live AS a homeless person for at least a month as part of their punishment.

 

[Gentoo]

That's shocks and saddens me... a lot. I don't know what else I can say except what goes around comes around.

 

[evearael]

I don't even know where to begin. There is no excuse for their actions. I cannot believe he thought it was "no big deal" to throw leaves and sticks at the man... it reminds me of one the stages of genocide... dehumanization. It infuriates me that a fifteen year old was incapable of realizing that it is wrong to throw things at people when my two year old has no problem understanding the concept. Then it escalated to an onslaught of makeshift missiles and beating with blunt objects before desecrating the corspe and cutting him. This is absolutely barbaric and cannot be tolerated. My first question is where were the parents? Their fifteen year old son was out drinking, doing drugs and MURDERING a man who had done him no harm.

 

[standing_alone]

My first question is where were the parents? Their fifteen year old son was out drinking, doing drugs and MURDERING a man who had done him no harm.

It's Milwaukee. It's a craphole. Enough said.

What should we do about this? What can be done? What sort of feelings for the guilty does this make you feel?

I remember when this first happened. I totally forgot about it until seeing this story just now. It is a terrible disgusting crime and fifteen years seems a rather lenient punishment for what was done.

I don't know what can be done, other than punishment (and something more than a mere fifteen years). I don't know what could be done to stop crimes against the homeless in general, except maybe community-type patrol programs, but it depends on the city and how the homeless population is concentrated, I suppose. I doubt that such a program would be effective or easy to organize and operate, however. I can't think of a real practical solution. Seems the only thing that can be done is punishing the criminals.

What sort of feeling for the guilty does this make me feel? Disgust. Anger.

 

[kiwimac]

These kids LEARNED this behaviour from somewhere. The question is WHERE? once that one is answered we can begin to talk about fixing the problem.

 

[porkchop]

I am totally disgusted with these men for what they did, it is appaling.
What irritates me is the way whoever wrote the article put it was a "primal surge", like in some way thats gonna justify it, cause deep down we all have that primal instinct in us, right??
What can we do to stop things like this happening? Well, over here (england) we need a zero tolerance like in the states,that would help, but ultimately, things like this are gonna continue to happen, and most likely become far worse. Sin enters the world and this is what you get, simple as. Read the Bible, these are the end times, it ain't gonna get any better, all we (us christians) can do is tell people the gospel and pray they will be saved.
Boy, i can't wait to go home.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think its sad and pathetic.
I'm also wondering if they were using amphetamines, since it does give you an "I'm unstopable" feeling, and can turn you violent.

 

[michel]

I don't even know where to begin. There is no excuse for their actions. I cannot believe he thought it was "no big deal" to throw leaves and sticks at the man... it reminds me of one the stages of genocide... dehumanization. It infuriates me that a fifteen year old was incapable of realizing that it is wrong to throw things at people when my two year old has no problem understanding the concept. Then it escalated to an onslaught of makeshift missiles and beating with blunt objects before desecrating the corspe and cutting him. This is absolutely barbaric and cannot be tolerated. My first question is where were the parents? Their fifteen year old son was out drinking, doing drugs and MURDERING a man who had done him no harm.

You are quite right. The thing I find hard is that I feel sorry for the kids too - for the way they should chose to find pleasure in such a disgraceful and inhuman act.

I was the object of a very tiny example of that. I was sitting on a park bench, listening to my music on a mini disk; I was an easy target - I had my crutches with me.

Two young teenagers came and sat down - one on each side of me; my hairs on the back of my neck stood straight up. One of them asked me what I was listening to; I replied something like "Country and Western, I doubt that you would like that" with a smile. "Let me hear some" the same guy asked. I passed him the heaphones, and of course, he grabbed them and tried to yank the mini disk off me (he was unlicky there, he only got the phones).

As they were running away, taunting me, I just stood there and shouted back "I hope for your sakes that if you are ever like me one day, that others don't try to treat you the way you have treated me".

Somehow, that seemed to ruin their fun, and they threw the headphones on the grass and went off - presumably for their next victim.

I don't know if it is because of boredom that they do such things, lack of any form of respect for others, whether it is their parents, or their school that have let them down (or a combination of all of those). All I know is that I felt sorry for those kids - after I had got over the shock.

 

[Pardus]

We have a society of disrespect, one major cause is that money is more important than people.

It has always been this way.

 

[jacquie4000]

It is a terriable situation here. It seems so many teens are getting worse in their actions...What can we do? That is a very good question. I believe it does start at home. I am not saying parents are to blame. You can raise your child right and still have a bad outcome. However I feel to many parents let their kids grow up largely on their own. They do not spend enought time with them.

 

[standing_alone]

It is a terriable situation here. It seems so many teens are getting worse in their actions...What can we do? That is a very good question. I believe it does start at home. I am not saying parents are to blame. You can raise your child right and still have a bad outcome. However I feel to many parents let their kids grow up largely on their own. They do not spend enought time with them.

One should also keep in mind the attitudes of our wider culture. Our society does have contempt for the homeless and ultimately sees them as worthless. If we're going to address crimes against the homeless, changing attitudes about the homeless would be absolutely necessary, but in our culture of individualism, "personal responsibility," and making loads of money, I don't see that attitude changing drastically, at least not for a long time.

 

[Pardus]

Traditional discipline is flawed, and it's finally showing.

It never tought right from wrong, just what individual actions you don't take.

Child does something "wrong", child gets slapped, child doesn't repeat that action.

Child does something "wrong", child gets the reason explained and disciplined in a way that drums the reasoning into their head, child avoids doing anything with a same or similiar "wrongness".

 

[jacquie4000]

One should also keep in mind the attitudes of our wider culture. Our society does have contempt for the homeless and ultimately sees them as worthless (I mean, a fifteen year sentence for murdering one seems to reinforce that idea). If we're going to address crimes against the homeless, changing attitudes about the homeless would be absolutely necessary, but in our culture of individualism, "personal responsibility," and making loads of money, I don't see that attitude changing drastically, at least not for a long time.

While the homeless and the way they are precieved by many people is an issue, Teenages these days are different then when I grew up and that is just not because of how we view the homeless or the concept of making big money. Teens and children in general are guided far less then they used to be it is the truth. To a large degree we have failed our children. Not everyone mind you but it is not the same.

 

[jacquie4000]

Traditional discipline is flawed, and it's finally showing.

It never tought right from wrong, just what individual actions you don't take.

Child does something "wrong", child gets slapped, child doesn't repeat that action.

Child does something "wrong", child gets the reason explained and disciplined in a way that drums the reasoning into their head, child avoids doing anything with a same or similiar "wrongness".

I see alot of kids who are not taught much of anything. Let alone disiplined other then don't do it again o.k.? Then they are grounded yet the parent does not even follow through with that.

Slapping a child rarely ever works with a child and I really don't see it as traditional.
However when I grew up if you recieved a discipline the parent did not change their mind because they could not be bothered with following through with it because they were to busy in their lives. This I see happening quite often. So what is that teaching?

If I am told not to do it again...My parent disciplines me but I know it won't stick then hey I can do it again. We must talk to our children and relate to them in a way they understand and disipline them in a way that works for that individual child which in alot of ways is learning from our mistakes as parents. Not one path works for all kids.

 

[Pardus]

While the homeless and the way they are precieved by many people is an issue, Teenages these days are different then when I grew up and that is just not because of how we view the homeless or the concept of making big money. Teens and children in general are guided far less then they used to be it is the truth. To a large degree we have failed our children. Not everyone mind you but it is not the same.

BULLS**T!!!

Our failure is that we still rely on inept concepts of how to raise children.

These days we are required to think for ourselves, and this is a good thing, we are just yet to learn to use our brains.

 

[jacquie4000]

Did you read the next post Pardus and how would you raise a child? What are your thoughts?

 

[Pardus]

However when I grew up if you recieved a discipline the parent did not change their mind because they could not be bothered with following through with it because they were to busy in their lives.

That is because of the pursuit of money!!!

 

[jacquie4000]

Pardus...The pursuit of money is only one issue. And yes it is one of them. But I see many parents that are not in the pursuit of money that still have major issues with their children and in raising them so it is not the only issue.

Some of the parents I am referring to fall into the money thing some do not fall into it not even close.