Terrorism

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Don't let facts get in the way of a good story.

The Decline of Terrorism – Future Crunch – Medium

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think they may be a bit overly optimistic. Of course terrorism will decline over the past couple of years - such is after the time ISIS stormed through Iran and Syria. It's a very good article, and they do provide evidence beyond that, but I'd wait to see what the near future brings before proclaiming it comfortably as fact. Of course the issue has pretty much always been very overplayed and over hyped since 9/11, but I'd rather wait a few years to see if we can start to relax as the article implies or if we just had to wait for them to reorganize into another extensive network capable of amassing an armed military capable of global operations.
We also have the issue of those who left to fight for ISIS attempting to return home. That is something that can potentially reverse the trend they wrote of.

 

[Jumi]

The chart shows it's still higher than before people decided to make a mess of Syria.

 

[HonestJoe]

I think they may be a bit overly optimistic. Of course terrorism will decline over the past couple of years - such is after the time ISIS stormed through Iran and Syria. It's a very good article, and they do provide evidence beyond that, but I'd wait to see what the near future brings before proclaiming it comfortably as fact. Of course the issue has pretty much always been very overplayed and over hyped since 9/11, but I'd rather wait a few years to see if we can start to relax as the article implies or if we just had to wait for them to reorganize into another extensive network capable of amassing an armed military capable of global operations.

The article isn’t optimistic, just realistic and it’s less about the actual decline in terrorist attacks and more about how they’re reported. It also isn’t about relaxing. As normal civilians living in the West, there was never any reason for us not to be largely relaxed about terrorism, certainly in contrast to the countless other risks in our daily lives. Terrorists attacks are vanishingly rare for us (and not all are Islamic ones either) and much of the peak over the last few years have been in North Africa and the Middle East.

We also have the issue of those who left to fight for ISIS attempting to return home. That is something that can potentially reverse the trend they wrote of.

Well given the trend is largely of organised attacks in the Middle East and North Africa, individual fighters returning to the West can’t reverse that trend. They pose a new and different risk that needs honestly, effectively and fairly addressing. Exaggerated and ignorant panic would be counterproductive though.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The article isn’t optimistic, just realistic and it’s less about the actual decline in terrorist attacks and more about how they’re reported.

It brought up both. And, yes, it is very optimistic and it does place an emphasis on the decline during a time after ISIS went on a rampage and claimed most of their territory and committed genocide, and militarily defeated. The latest and largest threat was mostly put down, so yes the numbers will go down.

It also isn’t about relaxing. As normal civilians living in the West, there was never any reason for us not to be largely relaxed about terrorism, certainly in contrast to the countless other risks in our daily lives.

While that is true, global terrorism is still nevertheless a new threat we face in this new age. And those in places such as France would probably disagree with there never being any reason to not be relaxed. It's an unlikely risk for any of one of us individually. But a school shooting is also unlikely to happen at any given school. Neither one is something we can ignore because "it doesn't happen here."

Well given the trend is largely of organised attacks in the Middle East and North Africa, individual fighters returning to the West can’t reverse that trend. They pose a new and different risk that needs honestly, effectively and fairly addressing. Exaggerated and ignorant panic would be counterproductive though.

With the potential numbers they could. And, very much it is a new and very different risk that we haven't faced before. Especially on this scale. It isn't exaggerated or ignorant to point out they embraced an ideology that is dedicated to eradicating everything they came from and killing everyone who won't fall in line. That is something that must be considered first and foremost when deciding how to address this issue. They are traitors, and that can't be ignored. Easy second chances are an unaffordable risk.

 

[Stevicus]

Don't let facts get in the way of a good story.

The Decline of Terrorism – Future Crunch – Medium

It's a good article. I agreed with the part where they point out that the media have been largely manipulative and dishonest when it comes to covering terrorism.

 

[HonestJoe]

It brought up both. And, yes, it is very optimistic and it does place an emphasis on the decline during a time after ISIS went on a rampage and claimed most of their territory and committed genocide, and militarily defeated. The latest and largest threat was mostly put down, so yes the numbers will go down.

Again, the article is realistic. Maybe a little optimism is realistic in the circumstances. They’re not celebrating the end of terrorism, they’re presenting the actual facts and challenging the news media and politicians to do the same, or at least the general public to recognise the negative biases in what is presented to us.

While that is true, global terrorism is still nevertheless a new threat we face in this new age. And those in places such as France would probably disagree with there never being any reason to not be relaxed. It's an unlikely risk for any of one of us individually. But a school shooting is also unlikely to happen at any given school. Neither one is something we can ignore because "it doesn't happen here."

”Global terrorism” is relatively new (though not as new as many might think) but I’m not convinced the global aspect is especially relevant. In many cases it’s about the inspiration but the actual attackers are domestic (by residence at least). It seems perfectly likely those people would have been inspired to different violent acts by different inspirations (the various gang crime issue is actually fed by very similar factors).

The be relaxed point is about individual day-to-day behaviour. I don’t walk around constantly on the lookout for terrorists just as I don’t for the muggers, dangerous drivers or any of the countless other things that are much more like to cause me harm. I behaved the same when I lived in central London and I would if I lived anywhere in France. I’d behave the same in relation to school shooters if I was in a school (even in the USA! ). That isn’t the same as ignoring the problem or saying it never happens, it’s just about responding in the right way and at the right time. For the average citizen like me (and presumably) you, there isn’t actually all that much we need to do, at least directly. It’s largely about systematic policy and policing.

With the potential numbers they could. And, very much it is a new and very different risk that we haven't faced before.

You missed my point. The can’t reverse the trend because they’re different. They could pose a new threat but the point is that a new threat should be treated separately. Part of the issue here is looking at “terrorism” as a singular issue. I would see them being addressed much like a criminal convicted abroad and deported back after serving their sentence. The “terrorism” aspect in and of itself isn’t really the key, it’s just about taking an individual view of any risks they pose (and, frankly, any support they require to minimise them).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They’re not celebrating the end of terrorism, they’re presenting the actual facts and challenging the news media and politicians to do the same, or at least the general public to recognise the negative biases in what is presented to us.

It's the issue they are declaring a trend in a decline that overlaps into a time when we should expect to see one regardless. And I'm not auguring the facts they present, but rather that it seems premature to have a dismissal attitude towards terrorism.

”Global terrorism” is relatively new (though not as new as many might think) but I’m not convinced the global aspect is especially relevant. In many cases it’s about the inspiration but the actual attackers are domestic (by residence at least). It seems perfectly likely those people would have been inspired to different violent acts by different inspirations (the various gang crime issue is actually fed by very similar factors).

It's indeed very much new. Not only is global transportation at staggering new heights, instant global voice and video communication is also new, and groups like ISIS do utilize social media. And while it's possible those who left to fight for ISIS would have other wise committed violence, that is questionable as joining ISIS was religiously motivated, as was those who weren't official members but acted on their behalf.

I don’t walk around constantly on the lookout for terrorists just as I don’t for the muggers, dangerous drivers or any of the countless other things that are much more like to cause me harm.

But you probably don't walk down poorly lit alleys with cash hanging out of your pocket, ignore other cars while driving or walking, and you probably have some band aids, antiseptic ointment, and maybe even a stash of canned goods, bottled water, batteries, flashlight, and radio. We aren't constantly on the look out, but yet at times we still nevertheless prepare and remain vigilant (especially when driving).

You missed my point. The can’t reverse the trend because they’re different. They could pose a new threat but the point is that a new threat should be treated separately.

It's a new threat in that so many have left and are expected to return, and it's a lot of them who are dedicated to destroying us to the point they will destroy themselves (this separates them from and makes them distinct from your "standard" terrorist group). Otherwise they should be treated as any other suspected terrorist. They shoot up a club, suicide bomb a subway train, they are no different and they are reversing the trend. And it this point it won't take much to reverse that trend. The reality is, because of those returning fighters, were are entering into what may be a very precarious situation that can easily become overwhelmed and plagued with controversial political strife. And it's not like we are referring the general Muslim population at large where we find the rabid and dangerous extremists who are very typically geographically constrained. This is specifically an international base of people who picked up a fight that wants to see you and me dead, stoned, decapitated, crucified. Why should they be treated differently?

I would see them being addressed much like a criminal convicted abroad and deported back after serving their sentence.

Many countries would execute them if convicted.

The “terrorism” aspect in and of itself isn’t really the key, it’s just about taking an individual view of any risks they pose (and, frankly, any support they require to minimise them).

It's a very huge aspect of it because they embraced an ideology that seeks to destroy us by spilling our blood and spreading fear through us like a virus. It's not just that they joined the enemy, they joined an enemy that sought global domination and the death of everyone who didn't follow their interpretation of Islam. They joined a group that committed heinous acts of violence, was a tidal wave of genocide, and ruled by inspiring fear and clinching an iron fist. Slavers, abusers, serial killers with god on their side. These things cannot be overlooked or ignored, and we simply cannot allow them a chance to spread that ideology among a general prison population. Those returning, this is a population who went there to either fight with ISIS or become pregnant with future Jihadists.
Life in prison, placed with other captured terrorists, may be the only suitable punishment. It gives incentive to not come back, and does basically say don't come back, but their crimes are great, their beliefs fundamentally dangerous, and whether a life of prison or exile they are just going to have to accept the consequences of their actions.

 

[Jumi]

Europe has been reacting, at least, to the previous terrorism explosion. In some instances you can notice the higher preparedness and harsher responses. Laws are being shifted in that direction. For example Sweden is reacting to the return of unrepentent ISIS terrorists by making it illegal to be a member of a terrorist organisation.

 

[esmith]

The chart shows it's still higher than before people decided to make a mess of Syria.

Excuse me, who made the mess in Syria?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Excuse me, who made the mess in Syria?

You don't think it was people?

 

[esmith]

You don't think it was people?

I was asking what people

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I was asking what people

If I thought you were interested in discussing the whole complex, multi lateral timeline that led to the current situation in Syria, I'd happily go into it.

I rather suspect what you actually want is a simplistic, falsely dichotomous "it's all one isolated individuals person's fault", which would be so misleading as to essentially be a fantasy.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Don't let facts get in the way of a good story.

The Decline of Terrorism – Future Crunch – Medium

How come the hordes of terrorists crossing our southern border that is not protected by a wall is not mentioned Worse yet, it shows that Iraqi terrorism was not a problem until after the U.S. invasion

Without terrorism for an excuse what reason are we going to have not to trust brown people?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

How come the hordes of terrorists crossing our southern border that is not protected by a wall is not mentioned Worse yet, it shows that Iraqi terrorism was not a problem until after the U.S. invasion

Without terrorism for an excuse what reason are we going to have not to trust brown people?

Usually I appreciate well delivered sarcasm, but I have to admit, after 15 years of trying to explain the realities of the matter to various misinformed but utterly convinced Americans that Islamic terrorism is NOT, in fact, an existential threat to America, your comment made me roll my eyes so hard I think I just detached a retina.

 

[Jumi]

Excuse me, who made the mess in Syria?

It's quite complex, there are many pieces that could only fall into place after the US invasion of Iraq, creating the perfect long window of opportunity for the terrorists. Supporting a mix of rebels, many of them hostile to us seems quite counter-intuitive and proved to have just the expected consequences.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Usually I appreciate well delivered sarcasm, but I have to admit, after 15 years of trying to explain the realities of the matter to various misinformed but utterly convinced Americans that Islamic terrorism is NOT, in fact, an existential threat to America, your comment made me roll my eyes so hard I think I just detached a retina.

Normally I prefer to leave the smileys off of an obvious but of sarcasm, but due to the tendency of some Americans I thought I better use them. You will here people make a serious claim about terrorists coming over the southern border when it is so much easier and less risky to enter legally.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Normally I prefer to leave the smileys off of an obvious but of sarcasm, but due to the tendency of some Americans I thought I better use them. You will here people make a serious claim about terrorists coming over the southern border when it is so much easier and less risky to enter legally.

I am aware. And I cringe every time at the fractal wrongness.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am aware. And I cringe every time at the fractal wrongness.

I could laugh or I could cry. Laughter makes it less painful. I would move to Australia but they drive on the wrong side of the road and have trouble spelling. How is the beer there?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I could laugh or I could cry. Laughter makes it less painful. I would move to Australia but they drive on the wrong side of the road and have trouble spelling. How is the beer there?

The beer's great, but our politicians and lowest common denominator MGP are falling over themselves to follow the Trump example. Come for a visit, sure, but I wouldn't suggest coming to stay just now.