Texas wants to stop Democrats from Voting?

[Dirty Penguin]

This is just backwards.

Why do people go to war? To kill people and take their stuff.

A country doesn't just give valuable land, resources, and infrastructure to a hostile that isn't powerful enough to defend it. Seriously. That's why we don't let the neocons take a good portion of the country with oil, minerals, water, coastline, and an infrastructure that can support a large number of people.

Also, Southerners are Americans, too. Not everyone supports the lawlessness of neo-conservatism, and if the system were not so corrupt, these voices would be far more visible.

I say it with sarcasm. No I don't want them to secede. I see the progressive uprising in Texas and I'm all for it. Texans best weapon at this point against a republican controlled government in going to be at the ballot box.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

They could cut this burden by not having to pay fed income tax anymore.

I don't see it. What I do see, if that were to happen, is a "trickling up" of money. Given their recent policy changes I think it would become some sort of pseudo theocracy.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't see it. What I do see, if that were to happen, is a "trickling up" of money. Given their recent policy changes I think it would become some sort of pseudo theocracy.

OK...if Texans get back $.94 in federal allotments for each $1.00 they pay in income tax,
then if they secede, they'll no longer pay $1.00 to the fed. Since they keep this, they could
pay $.94 in extra tax to the state for the same benefit, but for a lower cost.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

OK...if Texans get back $.94 in federal allotments for each $1.00 they pay in income tax,
then if they secede, they'll no longer pay $1.00 to the fed. Since they keep this, they could
pay $.94 in extra tax to the state for the same benefit, but for a lower cost.

And while they "could"...I have my own doubts that they would. I believe Texas would become a psuedo theocratic government where big business and big oil would run pretty much unchecked at the expense and on the backs of the people whom they would be paying a low wage to...even lower than the US minimum wage. I don't think the country would last long IMHO....One would hope they never get hit with a natural disaster...because even in the US where a state has a surplus...in most cases that surplus is but a fraction as to what would needed to rebuild.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

The second Texas became its own country it would be conquered by Mexico.

 

[Revoltingest]

And while they "could"...I have my own doubts that they would. I believe Texas would become a psuedo theocratic government where big business and big oil would run pretty much unchecked at the expense and on the backs of the people whom they would be paying a low wage to...even lower than the US minimum wage. I don't think the country would last long IMHO....One would hope they never get hit with a natural disaster...because even in the US where a state has a surplus...in most cases that surplus is but a fraction as to what would needed to rebuild.

- Suppose they couldn't rebuild a coastal city wiped out by a hurricane. It could very well be saner to not build in dangerous areas. So it's not a big worry.
- If they don't raise their own taxes in order to recoup fed money, that would leave a lot more in the hands of residents. This would be an economic windfall.
- Even Pinko Paul Krugman admits that the median wage in TX is far above the fed min wage already. So lowering the min wage would have little effect, good or bad.
- Being pro-big business has its up side. Many here in less-business-friendly MI moved to TX after the crash because they found work.

It's easy to imagine the worst, & say it would happen, but you don't really know.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

- Suppose they couldn't rebuild a coastal city wiped out by a hurricane. It could very well be saner to not build in dangerous areas. So it's not a big worry.

Illogical. We know for a fact that even with the fed footing most of hurricane relief funding..states such as Texas rebuild over top of what was destroyed. It would be no different if they had to foot the bill on their own. New Orleans, which is obviously smaller than Texas, cost $40 to $65 Billion (insured), It's actual damage cost is said to have been about twice those figures. No. If hit by a disaster Texas as a separate country they would not survive financially unless they borrowed money.

- If they don't raise their own taxes in order to recoup fed money, that would leave a lot more in the hands of residents. This would be an economic windfall.

Texas can't afford to cut taxes. They have for big business and it ain't going so well.

TxDOT Plans to Convert Some Roads to Gravel | The Texas Tribune

Citing a funding shortfall and the impact of a historic oil drilling boom, Texas Department of Transportation officials on Thursday announced plans to move forward with converting some roads in West and South Texas to gravel.

“We would do these immediately, and I would suspect we would continue to convert other roadway segments as we continue to move forward,” Barton told the Texas Transportation Commission.

All of the affected roads have been so heavily damaged by truck activity related to oil and natural gas exploration that they have become safety hazards, Barton said.

TxDOT also announced plans to implement stricter weight limits on 518 miles of road in the parts of the state undergoing a drilling boom. The process, called “load posting,” will restrict most energy sector trucks from those roads, prompting some companies to find alternate routes to drilling sites.


“If they choose to do that, they may increase deterioration on those routes as well and we would have to load-post them too,” Barton said. Companies will be able to pay for permits to get around the weight restrictions in some cases, he said.


The transportation commission took Barton’s announcement as a sobering example of how funding challenges have hobbled the agency’s operations.

The announcement came as state lawmakers are having trouble finding consensus on a measure that would provide TxDOT with nearly $1 billion more in annual funding.

TxDOT told lawmakers earlier this year that it needed $4 billion in additional annual funding just to maintain current congestion. On top of that, agency officials requested an additional $1.6 billion to address road damage from energy sector development. During the regular legislative session that ended in May, lawmakers found the agency $200 million a year for its overall roadwork and a one-time $500 million infusion for energy development-related issues.

So not only will they not raise taxes on these oil behemoths that are using the roads and raking in billions (see: Koch Bro.) but they can't even fund road repairs in essence of $1billion let alone the the $4+ Billion it actually takes to keep things going so I don't see how, if ever hit with a disaster totalling in the 10s of billions, they'd ever be able to recover without financial help.

Here's more info that puts things in perspective should you choose to explore Texas situation.

Fuel Fix » Oil-rich area may not get tax windfall

There's an oil boom in Texas. The state is sitting on almost a $9 Billion surplus...although almost half came from gutting public education.

- Even Pinko Paul Krugman admits that the median wage in TX is far above the fed min wage already. So lowering the min wage would have little effect, good or bad.

That's not what I gathered from him in his article back in 2011....

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/22/low-wages-in-texas/?_r=0

"So if your picture is of employers shifting from the Northeast to Texas, drawn by low labor costs, that picture is correct.


Again, the point is not that Texas is a hellhole. It is that there is no miracle — and Texas experience offers no role model for getting out of the national slump."

It's easy to imagine the worst, & say it would happen, but you don't really know.

Actually...we do. Hurricanes and other natural disasters have been tracked for some time now. I'm sure the insurance companies have an amount in dollars for claims paid vs. the state or others that track the total cost. Again...Hurricane Katrina and Sandy were in the 10s of billions....So no one's imagining anything because it has happened and the states, even Texas and insurance companies, have relied on federal dollars.

Interactive: The Cost of Hurricane Damage | The Texas Tribune

"The Cost of Three Texas Hurricanes"....

 

[Revoltingest]

Illogical. We know for a fact that even with the fed footing most of hurricane relief funding..states such as Texas rebuild over top of what was destroyed. It would be no different if they had to foot the bill on their own. New Orleans, which is obviously smaller than Texas, cost $40 to $65 Billion (insured), It's actual damage cost is said to have been about twice those figures. No. If hit by a disaster Texas as a separate country they would not survive financially unless they borrowed money.

Unlogical. By not rebuilding in disaster prone areas, they reduce the long term probabilistic cost of damage. Would Texas be that smart? We might never know. But it would be a prudent move after dumping Uncle Sam.

Texas can't afford to cut taxes. They have for big business and it ain't going so well.

I never suggested cutting taxes. In fact, I proposed that they raise them in order to make up for lost federal funding.

There's an oil boom in Texas. The state is sitting on almost a $9 Billion surplus...although almost half came from gutting public education.

That's unrelated to examining the alternatives of seceding or not.

That's not what I gathered from him in his article back in 2011....
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/22/low-wages-in-texas/?_r=0

$15/hour is above the fed min wage.

Actually...we do. Hurricanes and other natural disasters have been tracked for some time now. I'm sure the insurance companies have an amount in dollars for claims paid vs. the state or others that track the total cost. Again...Hurricane Katrina and Sandy were in the 10s of billions....So no one's imagining anything because it has happened and the states, even Texas and insurance companies, have relied on federal dollars.
Interactive: The Cost of Hurricane Damage | The Texas Tribune
"The Cost of Three Texas Hurricanes"....

This doesn't really matter much when looking at the benefits of Texans not paying fed taxes.
If you look only at what Texas gets from the feds, without considering the benefits of keeping that money, you're only getting half of the picture.

 

[Magic Man]

This isn't anything new. The republicans have been doing this for years. Funny how you don't see democrats doing it.

If you're just talking about gerrymandering, both parties do it. Last election, I had to vote no to it being done here in favor of democrats, not that it matters much in such a heavily Democratic state as Maryland. But Democrats play that game too.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Unlogical. By not rebuilding in disaster prone areas, they reduce the long term probabilistic cost of damage. Would Texas be that smart? We might never know.

What..? Most of Texas over the decades have been hit by a natural disaster of some kind and not just once.

I never suggested cutting taxes. In fact, I proposed that they raise them in order to make up for lost federal funding.

Which is why I posted what I posted. There was a recent move to raise taxes on these oil businesses that are causing a lot of the road damage due to the oil boom but that idea went nowhere. They "could" raise taxes but probably won't.

That's unrelated to examining the alternatives of seceding or not.

I was showing their propensity for not wanting to raise taxes.

$15/hour is above the fed min wage.

Like you said. It's the "median" not the actual. Much of the data I have shows Texas not to be that much better than most other states in this area. My state, Virginia, seems to be doing slightly better than Texas in that area. As Krugman said..."Texas experience offers no role model for getting out of the national slump."

This doesn't really matter much when looking at the benefits of Texans not paying fed taxes.
If you look only at what Texas gets from the feds, without considering the benefits of keeping that money, you're only getting half of the picture.

Actually I'm taking into account what it would cost Texas to survive as an independent nation without fed help or borrowing from other countries and I don't see how they can survive given their size in square miles, geographic location, population, low tax policy position and conservative controlled structure/agenda. Even with a supposed surplus of $9 Billion Dollars they still can't govern themselves on a local level and decide how to spend some on infrastructure.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

If you're just talking about gerrymandering, both parties do it. Last election, I had to vote no to it being done here in favor of democrats, not that it matters much in such a heavily Democratic state as Maryland. But Democrats play that game too.

I agree. I'm glad you voted (NO). If I still lived in MD I'd vote no. As you say..it's a heavily blue state and it doesn't look like that's going to change. Love MD (Go Ravens :yes....but had to move out here to somewhat quiet Manassas. But they (Virginians) have some crooks in local government too (Bob McDonald and Ken Cucinelli...)

 

[Revoltingest]

What..? Most of Texas over the decades have been hit by a natural disaster of some kind and not just once.

Meh....they can cope with them without our help.

Which is why I posted what I posted. There was a recent move to raise taxes on these oil businesses that are causing a lot of the road damage due to the oil boom but that idea went nowhere. They "could" raise taxes but probably won't.

That was a pre-secession decision. Certainly, once they no longer get their share of federal
largess, they'll make up for it with what they save in eliminated fed income taxes.

Like you said. It's the "median" not the actual. Much of the data I have shows Texas not to be that much better than most other states in this area. My state, Virginia, seems to be doing slightly better than Texas in that area. As Krugman said..."Texas experience offers no role model for getting out of the national slump."

Median means what it means, & is based upon actual wages.
Krugman's opinion of the figure he cites doesn't contradict it.

Actually I'm taking into account what it would cost Texas to survive as an independent nation without fed help or borrowing from other countries and I don't see how they can survive given their size in square miles, geographic location, population, low tax policy position and conservative controlled structure/agenda. Even with a supposed surplus of $9 Billion Dollars they still can't govern themselves on a local level and decide how to spend some on infrastructure.

If they only get $.94 from the fed for every $1.00 they pay, then they'd have more money by seceding. If they increased their state taxes by the amount they paid the fed, they'd have more. On top of that, they'd control the spending instead of the fed, likely creating greater efficiency.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Median means what it means, & is based upon actual wages.
Krugman's opinion of the figure he cites doesn't contradict it.

Exactly.....which means they're running neck in neck with some other states. Then again Krugman's article said something different to me than it did to you...

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/22/low-wages-in-texas/?_r=0

So the median hourly wage is more than the US minimum wage of $7.25 but less than some other states. I'm fine with that but it means little in comparison and if that's a good talking point to go with then surely we can up the US minimum hourly rate......

If they only get $.94 from the fed for every $1.00 they pay, then they'd have more money by seceding. If they increased their state taxes by the amount they paid the fed, they'd have more. On top of that, they'd control the spending instead of the fed, likely creating greater efficiency.

I don't see it. For every .06 cents lost on the dollar to the feds they’ve managed to run a budget surplus of $9 Billion Dollars and are having difficulties spending any of it on much needed infrastructure as a result of the oil boom and trucks causing havoc to their roads. In essence it's not like the .06 cent per dollar loss is crippling them rather it's something deeper IMO. Maybe it's an ideological battle. If they became their own government and got rid of the two party system I wonder what it would look like..All conservative maybe.....

 

[Revoltingest]

Exactly.....which means they're running neck in neck with some other states. Then again Krugman's article said something different to me than it did to you...

Let's get back on track.
I refuted your claim that if TX seceded, wages would fall below the fed min wage (post #44).
A free market already has most wages were far above the min wage already.
Seceding wouldn't change this.
I used only a figure in Krugman's article. His opinion about TX matters not.

 

[esmith]

Exactly.....which means they're running neck in neck with some other states. Then again Krugman's article said something different to me than it did to you...

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/22/low-wages-in-texas/?_r=0

The only problem with the chart you show is that you are not figuring in other factors.
From Best and Worst States To Make A Living
Mass is ranked 13th, NJ 45, NY 47, CA 29, and TX 4.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The only problem with the chart you show is that you are not figuring in other factors.
From Best and Worst States To Make A Living
Mass is ranked 13th, NJ 45, NY 47, CA 29, and TX 4.

Actually I'm not...which is why I compared TX to VA at one point in this thread...which as you notice from your very own link...we're #2..beating out TX......Shucks, if you're trying to compare Red vs. Blue then look at your list. Washington St. is #1.....:sad:

Here's the thing...all of them have their life blood. Take away big oil from TX and see what happens. Take away the defense industry from VA and see what happens. TX, as Krugman said...."Again, the point is not that Texas is a hellhole. It is that there is no miracle — and Texas experience offers no role model for getting out of the national slump."

 

[Father Heathen]

But, but, but... Screwattack...

Meh, there are fifty thousand other kids doing video game related videos on youtube.

 

[Father Heathen]

The second Texas became its own country it would be conquered by Mexico.

It was originally theirs, anyway.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Let's get back on track.
I refuted your claim that if TX seceded, wages would fall below the fed min wage (post #44).

Since they haven't seceded then post #43 is speculation.

A free market already has most wages were far above the min wage already.

Which exist in a structure where the fed sets the tone for minimum wage. I posit that if TX was it's own country (republican controlled)...they'd abolish the minimum wage structure in a "free market" society. There's be no collective bargaining either.

Lamar Alexander Says Minimum Wage Should Be Abolished

Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), the ranking Republican on the Senate's labor committee, said in a hearing Tuesday that he would prefer to see the minimum wage abolished.

Texas a winner in minimum wage raise - San Antonio Express-News

Texas has the dubious honor of being No. 3 among the states — behind Georgia and Mississippi — in percentage of hourly workers 16 and older who work at or below minimum wage, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, using 2011 data. Data for 2012 will be available later this year.

Seceding wouldn't change this.

We'll just agree to disagree...

 

[Revoltingest]

Since they haven't seceded then post #43 is speculation.

Well, spluh! You responded to my post speculating about Texistan seceding.
The premise is all about "speculation".
It sounds like you're arguing with me about something I'm not even addressing.

Which exist in a structure where the fed sets the tone for minimum wage. I posit that if TX was it's own country (republican controlled)...they'd abolish the minimum wage structure in a "free market" society. There's be no collective bargaining either.
Lamar Alexander Says Minimum Wage Should Be Abolished

Sounds like a great idea to me.
Any Texistanian who doesn't like it can move to the US.
Problem solved!