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The 11 year old freshman - An advantage or disadvantage

Neo-Logic

Reality Checker
I noticed that my school has a 11 year old freshman. I mean ... I don't know how to say much, but this frosh is very much a little kid looking person. Very short in height, a little kid's face and voice. He (or his parents made him?) skipped 3 grades.

Now the question is - is it an advantage or a disadvantage to be in highschool at such a young age. The pro's are of course that he gets to finish high school earlier and finish college sooner. The con's that I can imagine are just horrible. The kid pretty much hangs out in the library most of the times with a few of his friends. Obviously he won't be driving anytime in his highschool years. He will be at a major disadvantage in Physical Education classes as well as other complications and such.

Don't know .... is skipping 3 grades worth the trade for all the things that he will miss by not being the right age group and not being mature enough and not just physically. Eh .. just thought it'd make an interesting convo topic.
 

Aqualung

Tasty
I think it's a disadvantage. People are pushing people through school much to quickly. They need to slow down and enjoy it. That's three grades he never got to experience, and probably a high school carreer he won't like because he was so young. He probably won't have any friends because he's too young. There's really no point. He won't necessarily be more successful than someone who took their time.
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
My ex-sister in law was entirely homeschooled and graduated high school at the age of 14 and started college at age 15. I think there is a lot she missed out on. She tried so hard to fit in with those much older than her, but as young as she was her mother (whole different story there) wouldn't let her wear anything but fluffy things with kittens on them and frilly kid-like pink things. She was caught between two worlds and didn't fit in either of them. Poor thing.

Skipping a grade I can see...but 3...it's going to set the poor kid between social levels and won't quite fit anywhere.
 

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
Must be a really smart kid!

Jr high and high school were socially some of the worst years of my growing up.... skipping through them would have been a blessing!

Those of you who think the kid should be intellectually held back so he won't "lose" those 3 years of growing up don't believe in home schooling either, do you... If the kid is smart enough to basically skip jr high (or middle school or whatever they call it now), it seems he should be smart enough to have some say-so in this happening.
 

Ryan2065

Well-Known Member
I see no problem with it... Teachers skip children because the children are too advanced for their class. Normally when you have a child too advanced for his class he doesn't try as hard because he doesn't need to... So basically he can get through all of grade school and high school without trying at all... so when he comes to college he normally can't put in the hours to do the work, just because he has never in his life had to work to get good grades.

The younger kids can still have friends outside of high school... I know i had a few friends who did not go to my school when I was in grade school, it would not be much different. If you advanced the kid you have a chance of hurting his social life, if you don't advance the kid you have a chance of hurting his academic life...
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
Intellectual development and emotional development are too completely different things. Socially, the kid should not be skipping grades like this. Ultimately, it places him at a disadvantage.
 

Malus 12:9

Temporarily Deactive.
But a child can become restless, bored and ruin the learning for others if he is too smart for a class. He/She would answer all the questins from the teacher, amd be an inteferrence in the learning process of others.
 

s2a

Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
Hmmm. I can lend some anecdotal testimony from a similar, but not identical course.

In short summary, I was a precocious child, and to my (contemporary) detriment, I knew it. I grew up during the "phonics" craze of the early 1960's, but my primary educator was in fact, my mother. By the time I entered elementary school, I was (as tested) reading and writing (and properly pronouncing words and articulating compound/complex sentences) at a "fourth grade level". There was some "heated" exchanges betwixt my mother and the school's administration as to whether it was necessary for me to "relearn" how to read phonetically. Debate ensued as to whether I should be "promoted" to a higher grade level, so as to avoid my boredom, or shield others from perceptual "inadequacies". My mother insisted that I be allowed my own appropriately commensurate (and independant) curriculum, yet remain within my own like-aged peer group (thanks Mom ;-)).

By Fourth grade, it was (again) independently evaluated that I was reading and writing (with similar mathematical skills) at a twelfth-grade level of comprehension and proficiency. It was again strongly suggested that I be "accelerated" by at least three grade levels. One more, my mother resisted such advice, and insisted that I be allowed (what was then called) "independent study"...but remain within my established circle of friends and peers.

It was not until the Sixth grade (when I was indulging college-level "AP", or "Advanced Placement" courses) that she finally relented, and allowed me to "skip" from sixth to eighth grade (which at that time, was merely skipping the introductory year of "Junior", or "Middle School" education.

By the time High School rolled around, I was earning a modest income from tutoring other students of similar age/academic level. It was again strongly suggested that I be "accelerated" to Senior-level classes (with summer schooling) to expeditiously accommodate all of the requisite State standards of graduation.

At last, I was allowed a say in such decisions. I ultimately resisted. In the long run, I had satisfied all (but one) of my graduation requirements by the middle of my Junior year. If I had chosen to take "Senior English" (despite the fact that I was already managing editor of both the school newspaper and Literary magazine) during that impending Summer school, I would have easily graduated then and there. But, I was also a "jock" (as it were), and a team captain of both the soccer team and the "It's Academic" team ( a locally televised academic knowledge challenge). I chose to stay in school (despite having earned National Merit Scholarship results in my SAT's and overall GPA - aside: my mom was devastated that I was not the valedictorian or salutatorian of my class...really), taking but one requisite course for graduation (yet remaining "on staff" for my other "english studies" commitments), so that I might enjoy such absurdities as my Senior Prom (which was, actually, a comedy of disasters), challenging for a State Championship in soccer (we lost), and winning our "division" in "It's Academic"...as well as our first successful publishing and monetary profit gained from distribution of our Literary Magazine.

So what's the moral of the story?

In retrospect, I have none to offer. I went to college, earned two degrees (in four years) in utterly disparate fields of study/interest...neither of which I ultimately pursued or enhanced "professionally" (for some time at least). Would I have been "better off" (or better served) in being "fast-tracked"? I honestly don't know. Without question, I would have missed some of my most favored lifetime experiences to date (and some difficult, "character building" ones as well). Almost certainly, "things" would have turned out differently for me, had that path been followed.

It is often (enough) remarked that wisdom is birthed and bred of experience and failure (of which I could lend personalized testimony to both), and it's questionable (even debatable) as to whether another (alternate) course might have lent an ultimately differing wisdom/perspective from which I might claim to as my own today. But I am not of the mind to second-guess the past...for I am pleased with who I am today, and with the chosen company I keep.

Life is not about what "might have been", but most intriguingly..."what's next".

Within this mortal existence, at the end of my days, I am most likely to regret not the things I have done, but the things I have left undone. And tomorrow is another day of opportunity and wonder yet to unfold and be realized...
 

Unedited

Active Member
StewpidLoser said:
Must be a really smart kid!
Actually, American middle schools admittingly don't teach children much at all academically, because they fear it will interupt the child's social development (And then people wonder why Americans are so stupid ;)) An eleven year-old doesn't need to be smart to skip those three years, he just needs to have a really pushy parent.

I was 12 when I entered high school, but I really can't speak about whether it was a social disadvantage or not. I got sick my first year and spent much of my time in doctor's offices or hospitals, and I slept a lot too from the medication I was on. Over all it was an advantage to me to enter so early. Being sick, I was able to take less classes, and even a whole semester off when I was really bad, and I still graduated at 18.

I guess it really just comes down to the individual.
 

CaptainXeroid

Following Christ
Perhaps if parents and schools focused more on the academic requirements and less on the 'social' aspects of school, students' learning and ultimately achievement would be enahnced.

Way back when I started school, the recommendation was that kids turn 7 years old during first grade. Since my birthday is in August, the school recommended I start the next year. By the end of second grade, I was correcting teacher mistakes.:p I was way ahead of the other kids, but my parents & teachers decided it would be better for my social development if I did not skip any grades.:rolleyes: School was incredibly easy and very boring for me. I never learned to study because I didn't need to, and after failing a few courses in college, I had to learn in a hurry.


If this 11 year old is smart enough to be in the 9th grade, then it would be ruinous to his academic development to hold him back. Now if his parents are pushing him beyond his natural aptitude, then that could have disasterous results as well. Considering the pressure of mediocrity that plagues many of our public schools, I think such a precocious child may have more trouble socializing with kids his own age who are so far beneath his intellectual level. In that light, I submit it is much more damaging to a child's academic and social development not to skip a grade(s) if he clearly demonstrates the aptitude.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
s2a said:
Hmmm. I can lend some anecdotal testimony from a similar, but not identical course.

In short summary, I was a precocious child, and to my (contemporary) detriment, I knew it. I grew up during the "phonics" craze of the early 1960's, but my primary educator was in fact, my mother. By the time I entered elementary school, I was (as tested) reading and writing (and properly pronouncing words and articulating compound/complex sentences) at a "fourth grade level". There was some "heated" exchanges betwixt my mother and the school's administration as to whether it was necessary for me to "relearn" how to read phonetically. Debate ensued as to whether I should be "promoted" to a higher grade level, so as to avoid my boredom, or shield others from perceptual "inadequacies". My mother insisted that I be allowed my own appropriately commensurate (and independant) curriculum, yet remain within my own like-aged peer group (thanks Mom ;-)).

By Fourth grade, it was (again) independently evaluated that I was reading and writing (with similar mathematical skills) at a twelfth-grade level of comprehension and proficiency. It was again strongly suggested that I be "accelerated" by at least three grade levels. One more, my mother resisted such advice, and insisted that I be allowed (what was then called) "independent study"...but remain within my established circle of friends and peers.

It was not until the Sixth grade (when I was indulging college-level "AP", or "Advanced Placement" courses) that she finally relented, and allowed me to "skip" from sixth to eighth grade (which at that time, was merely skipping the introductory year of "Junior", or "Middle School" education.

By the time High School rolled around, I was earning a modest income from tutoring other students of similar age/academic level. It was again strongly suggested that I be "accelerated" to Senior-level classes (with summer schooling) to expeditiously accommodate all of the requisite State standards of graduation.

At last, I was allowed a say in such decisions. I ultimately resisted. In the long run, I had satisfied all (but one) of my graduation requirements by the middle of my Junior year. If I had chosen to take "Senior English" (despite the fact that I was already managing editor of both the school newspaper and Literary magazine) during that impending Summer school, I would have easily graduated then and there. But, I was also a "jock" (as it were), and a team captain of both the soccer team and the "It's Academic" team ( a locally televised academic knowledge challenge). I chose to stay in school (despite having earned National Merit Scholarship results in my SAT's and overall GPA - aside: my mom was devastated that I was not the valedictorian or salutatorian of my class...really), taking but one requisite course for graduation (yet remaining "on staff" for my other "english studies" commitments), so that I might enjoy such absurdities as my Senior Prom (which was, actually, a comedy of disasters), challenging for a State Championship in soccer (we lost), and winning our "division" in "It's Academic"...as well as our first successful publishing and monetary profit gained from distribution of our Literary Magazine.

So what's the moral of the story?

In retrospect, I have none to offer. I went to college, earned two degrees (in four years) in utterly disparate fields of study/interest...neither of which I ultimately pursued or enhanced "professionally" (for some time at least). Would I have been "better off" (or better served) in being "fast-tracked"? I honestly don't know. Without question, I would have missed some of my most favored lifetime experiences to date (and some difficult, "character building" ones as well). Almost certainly, "things" would have turned out differently for me, had that path been followed.

It is often (enough) remarked that wisdom is birthed and bred of experience and failure (of which I could lend personalized testimony to both), and it's questionable (even debatable) as to whether another (alternate) course might have lent an ultimately differing wisdom/perspective from which I might claim to as my own today. But I am not of the mind to second-guess the past...for I am pleased with who I am today, and with the chosen company I keep.

Life is not about what "might have been", but most intriguingly..."what's next".

Within this mortal existence, at the end of my days, I am most likely to regret not the things I have done, but the things I have left undone. And tomorrow is another day of opportunity and wonder yet to unfold and be realized...
Now why did I guess that you might have been a precocious child ? :D

There is a similarity between our upbringings, but with very different endings.

My Mother home-schooled me in Africa, and while we spent a year touring Europe, before finally settling in England.

I therefore went to what is called a preparatory school, and immediately made enemies with my peers by being far a head of them in languages (including Latin) and in maths - which was my favouriote subject.

This is where the similarities end; my poor parents, in trying to do their best for me sent me to a public school (what you call a private scool in America - just to be awkward) - but unfortunately sent me to a dreadful environment of drug taking, vandalizing brutes whose parents had also paid through the nose to have their children well educated (so they thought). The prime motivator of the Headmaster in life was to con as many parents out of heavy fees, to be able to afford his alcoholic and generally bacchanalian lifestyle.Even when he struggled into the Chapel, to conduct athe usual morning service each day, whiskey fumes could be detected from any corner of the Chapel.

I ended up being mercilessly beaten and assaulted for being a) intelligent. b)advanced at Maths and languages c)having a strong French accent d)being overweight.

The bullying was so bad that I lost any interest in accademia; my sole motivator was 'to stay alive'. From there, I became very anti exams (because I would be beaten up for doing better than the others). I left school with few cerificates to my name, and was lucky to be taken into a Banking career. No degrees, I am afraid. But plenty of experience of life.;)
 
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Draka

Wonder Woman
I actually would love to home-school my children. I would also make sure they were enrolled in outside things that puts them in contact with those their own age to socialize with. BOTH education and social skills are important. Why is it that everyone seems to lean one direction or the other? You need BOTH to be well balanced in todays world.

As for learning to study...ummm...I'm afraid I would need "study" defined for me.:p I was always beyond my class and I never skipped grades, I believe it was offered but my parents turned it down. I rarely ever "tried", things just came naturally to me. Even beyond high school...I was in what was considered the hardest school in the Navy (50% drop out and failure rate) and I graduated 2nd in my class. Also, when I went to college, I sailed through without much effort on my part at all...in fact, the only thing which kept my from a 4.0 was my stupid typing speed:149: ! So, I'm not the fastest typer...I still ran academic circles around my classmates. I never skipped grades...am well adjusted, and still have no problem learning anything I want to.

If they really are that bright, keeping them with their age isn't going to hurt them...their own resolve determines that.
 

s2a

Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
Jeez.

What a bunch of nerds of good company in which do we find ourselves?

"Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae".

;-)
 
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