The Absolute Oneness of God

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks...

Ben Avraham; Hmm - do you not see the futility there though..??...

I tell you (all) the god of the bible is NOT the Father spirit that Christ speaks of - I tell you likewise the bible does NOT know His legitimate truth - and the response it to then direct me BACK to he BIBLE..???.....lol....WHATS the point then..???...

We ALREADY KNOW the bible is NOT His truth - so why refer back to it time and time again..??... All the stuff in the bible canon is WRITTEN BY MEN - but NOT WRITTEN BY DISCIPLE or CHRIST - or by ANYBODY that met any of them DIRECTLY....It is not LEGITIMATE - and the canon origins are highly dubious, openly stated the intent was to unify and dominate MANY seperate versions - the intent clearly stated to ENFORCE a UNIVERSAL truth over all regardless of ACTUAL LEGITIMATE TRUTH...The NEW testemant was formed for POLITICAL AGENDA and not for spiritual truth at all - that is undeniable.....The NEW testemant is not wriiten by disciple or Christ - that too is undeniable...therefore the new testamant is not an authority at all on Christ or His truth, cannot be trusted to give HIS truth, obviously not.....And look - the OLD testamant likewise - is about the specific INDIVIDUAL GOD we call Yhvh - and Christ went to great pains to explain to us all that that one is NOT OUR FATHER and has actually tricked and deceived us - great pains indeed for as we know they MURDER HIM to silence His truth !!

So really it would profit us greatly to simply put the religious confusion to one side and concentrate on the ORIGINAL gospels that WERE claimed to be written BY DISCIPLE DIRECTLY !!! You know - lets go look at all that FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE and see what the church tried to hide from us - what was so damning to them that they MURDERED CHRIST and then set about hunting down His truth for centuries to come, eradicating legitimate spiritual truth and replacing it with bogus church half truth that was FORCED upon the world - thus they secured their dominance and thus we are left with this spiritual confusion today...

The issue above for example - Christ no longer speaks to anyone..??.....No return from death..???.....The RELIGION teach you that so they can DOMINATE you and keep you fearful and subserviant to their "god" and authority...You know - do ALL THEY SAY NOW or else you are doomed after life lol.....Christ - said the COMPLETE OPPOSITE !!! Come to know Who and What you are NOW in life - then at death your Soul will be FREE from this imposed delusion... Heres a a few pertinant bits of ORIGINAL SCRIPTURE from Thomas - a DIRECT FIRST HAND TESTIMONY Christ reveals truth to disciple, Thomas records it for us to see clear :

"If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

ALL STARTS WITH THE SELF !!! Self awareness is the CRUCIAL no 1 step...Look - Hes telling you (all), your so called leaders actually MISLEAD you and dont understand this truth....

"This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away. The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive. When you are in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

So He starts to explain METAPHYSICAL TRUTH and the heirachy to creation - tells them clearly that what they currently believe is FALSE - like EVERYTHING they hold a spiritual truth - every aspect - the truth of their RELIGIOUS GOD IS FALSE HE says - because look - this heaven they expect and already know AND the one above WILL PASS AWAY to reveal a NEW EXISTANCE beyond the religious truth entirely... There are indeed MANY SUCH REALMS and elsewhere in ORIGINAL JOHN He will describe them all fully.. Their ideas of an "afterlife" are likewise also FALSE He says - the dead are NOT ALIVE - those WITHOUT this truth have no ETERNAL SOUL - but those who DO come tot his truth CAN NOT EVER DIE - become IMMORTAL and eternal Soul !!. He says they ATE WHAT IS DEAD - (LIES from Yahvh and religion ) and made it "come alive" as TRUTH of their existance - BUT He says when they are in THAT LIGHT they will be CONFUSED - what will you do He says when this TRUTH is revealed..??...What wil you do when you again encounter your ETERNAL SOUL..?? THEIR learned RELIGIOUS truth - is NOT HIS DIVINE LEGITIMATE TRUTH !!

"I will give you what no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, what no hand has touched, what has not arisen in the human heart."

This CANNOT BE YHVH - can it..??....They ALREADY have that truth of that god - but here - Christ says EXPLICITLY that His truth is NEW and NEVER BEFORE ENCOUNTERED !!! Let it sink in deep Folks.....

"The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

Your so called leaders - religious authority - have TAKEN the keys to this truth and HIDDEN it on purpose - kept you IGNORANT ON PURPOSE He says clearly...Again let it sink in deep - they HAVE deceived you all along....

"If they say to you, 'Where have you come from?' say to them, 'We have come from the light, from the place where the light came into being by itself, established [itself], and appeared in their image.' If they say to you, 'Is it you?' say, 'We are its children, and we are the chosen of the living Father.' If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' say to them, 'It is motion and rest.'"

Note especially here there is a definate DISTINCTION being made by Christ - THEY the religious authority, hold a totally different truth to this He has just told the disciples... He speaks again of this Divine Light - of COMING FROM the Light and of RETURNING AGAIN to that state - the light that ESTABLISHED ITS OWN SELF -VIRGIN SPIRIT SOURCE of All Creation... Apparantly and obviously the religious authority will know NOTHING of this new truth and new Father spirit - and so Christ advises the disciples here HOW TO EXPLAIN IT TO THE PHARISEE as it is NOT THEIR god but an entirely new and PRIMAL SOVEREIGN DEITY...... As said - in JOHN alongside He will explain the ORIGIN and CREATION of the one named yhvh and so we see this Father here can NOT be yhvh at all and He makes that very very clear....

oh - the evidence is motion and rest..?....All about MIND Folks as said - the mind HERE surface mind is forever CHANGING, swapping - in turmoil constant motion...It must be tamed - taken down to rest - right back into that sacred deep silent void within where it all starts - encounter the Divine first there He said and allow Its new Presence to guide us always...A little clue for those with ears to hear...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The Absolute Oneness of God

Isaiah says that, absolutely, God cannot be compared with anyone or anything, as we read Isaiah 46:5. "To whom will ye liken Me, and make Me equal to , or compare Me with, that we may be alike?"

Therefore, more than one God would have been unable to produce the world; one would have impeded the work of the other, unless this could be avoided by a suitable division of labor.

... or one agreed with what the other was doing

... or one did not care about what the other was doing

There is no 'there' in your 'therefore' and even less reason to take some pronouncement in Deutero-Isaiah as 'truth.'

 

[wizanda]

I'm not sure why the question deserves a smile.

The reason for the smile, is because in the real world; if we'd ask someone to do something for us, it is nicer to smile, when we do.

 

[psychoslice]

It's actually the largest religion. Perhaps you should rethink your arguments. Your 'skepticism', is not affecting the conversion to Christianity, something is wrong with your arguments.

For personally there is no argument, for what can I argue ?.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Hi Folks...

Ben Avraham; Hmm - do you not see the futility there though..??...

I tell you (all) the god of the bible is NOT the Father spirit that Christ speaks of - I tell you likewise the bible does NOT know His legitimate truth - and the response it to then direct me BACK to he BIBLE..???.....lol....WHATS the point then..???...

We ALREADY KNOW the bible is NOT His truth - so why refer back to it time and time again..??... All the stuff in the bible canon is WRITTEN BY MEN - but NOT WRITTEN BY DISCIPLE or CHRIST - or by ANYBODY that met any of them DIRECTLY....It is not LEGITIMATE - and the canon origins are highly dubious, openly stated the intent was to unify and dominate MANY seperate versions - the intent clearly stated to ENFORCE a UNIVERSAL truth over all regardless of ACTUAL LEGITIMATE TRUTH...The NEW testemant was formed for POLITICAL AGENDA and not for spiritual truth at all - that is undeniable.....The NEW testemant is not wriiten by disciple or Christ - that too is undeniable...therefore the new testamant is not an authority at all on Christ or His truth, cannot be trusted to give HIS truth, obviously not.....And look - the OLD testamant likewise - is about the specific INDIVIDUAL GOD we call Yhvh - and Christ went to great pains to explain to us all that that one is NOT OUR FATHER and has actually tricked and deceived us - great pains indeed for as we know they MURDER HIM to silence His truth !!

So really it would profit us greatly to simply put the religious confusion to one side and concentrate on the ORIGINAL gospels that WERE claimed to be written BY DISCIPLE DIRECTLY !!! You know - lets go look at all that FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE and see what the church tried to hide from us - what was so damning to them that they MURDERED CHRIST and then set about hunting down His truth for centuries to come, eradicating legitimate spiritual truth and replacing it with bogus church half truth that was FORCED upon the world - thus they secured their dominance and thus we are left with this spiritual confusion today...

The issue above for example - Christ no longer speaks to anyone..??.....No return from death..???.....The RELIGION teach you that so they can DOMINATE you and keep you fearful and subserviant to their "god" and authority...You know - do ALL THEY SAY NOW or else you are doomed after life lol.....Christ - said the COMPLETE OPPOSITE !!! Come to know Who and What you are NOW in life - then at death your Soul will be FREE from this imposed delusion... Heres a a few pertinant bits of ORIGINAL SCRIPTURE from Thomas - a DIRECT FIRST HAND TESTIMONY Christ reveals truth to disciple, Thomas records it for us to see clear :

ALL STARTS WITH THE SELF !!! Self awareness is the CRUCIAL no 1 step...Look - Hes telling you (all), your so called leaders actually MISLEAD you and dont understand this truth....





So He starts to explain METAPHYSICAL TRUTH and the heirachy to creation - tells them clearly that what they currently believe is FALSE - like EVERYTHING they hold a spiritual truth - every aspect - the truth of their RELIGIOUS GOD IS FALSE HE says - because look - this heaven they expect and already know AND the one above WILL PASS AWAY to reveal a NEW EXISTANCE beyond the religious truth entirely... There are indeed MANY SUCH REALMS and elsewhere in ORIGINAL JOHN He will describe them all fully.. Their ideas of an "afterlife" are likewise also FALSE He says - the dead are NOT ALIVE - those WITHOUT this truth have no ETERNAL SOUL - but those who DO come tot his truth CAN NOT EVER DIE - become IMMORTAL and eternal Soul !!. He says they ATE WHAT IS DEAD - (LIES from Yahvh and religion ) and made it "come alive" as TRUTH of their existance - BUT He says when they are in THAT LIGHT they will be CONFUSED - what will you do He says when this TRUTH is revealed..??...What wil you do when you again encounter your ETERNAL SOUL..?? THEIR learned RELIGIOUS truth - is NOT HIS DIVINE LEGITIMATE TRUTH !!



This CANNOT BE YHVH - can it..??....They ALREADY have that truth of that god - but here - Christ says EXPLICITLY that His truth is NEW and NEVER BEFORE ENCOUNTERED !!! Let it sink in deep Folks.....

Your so called leaders - religious authority - have TAKEN the keys to this truth and HIDDEN it on purpose - kept you IGNORANT ON PURPOSE He says clearly...Again let it sink in deep - they HAVE deceived you all along....

Note especially here there is a definate DISTINCTION being made by Christ - THEY the religious authority, hold a totally different truth to this He has just told the disciples... He speaks again of this Divine Light - of COMING FROM the Light and of RETURNING AGAIN to that state - the light that ESTABLISHED ITS OWN SELF -VIRGIN SPIRIT SOURCE of All Creation... Apparantly and obviously the religious authority will know NOTHING of this new truth and new Father spirit - and so Christ advises the disciples here HOW TO EXPLAIN IT TO THE PHARISEE as it is NOT THEIR god but an entirely new and PRIMAL SOVEREIGN DEITY...... As said - in JOHN alongside He will explain the ORIGIN and CREATION of the one named yhvh and so we see this Father here can NOT be yhvh at all and He makes that very very clear....

oh - the evidence is motion and rest..?....All about MIND Folks as said - the mind HERE surface mind is forever CHANGING, swapping - in turmoil constant motion...It must be tamed - taken down to rest - right back into that sacred deep silent void within where it all starts - encounter the Divine first there He said and allow Its new Presence to guide us always...A little clue for those with ears to hear...

Tell me Pete, what do you believe after all this post about "Christ?" How can a Christian be agnostic? Are you an atheist in
the process to become a Christian or what?

 

[Coder]

Tell me Pete, what do you believe after all this post about "Christ?" How can a Christian be agnostic? Are you an atheist in the process to become a Christian or what?

Hi Ben, it's not "agnostic", it's "Gnostic". Gnostics are Christians who believe that the material world is evil and the creator of this world is a false "god" (or something like that). They believe that Jesus teaches knowledge so we can see past this "world" to the true "world" (or something like that).

 

[Ben Avraham]

Hi Ben, it's not "agnostic", it's "Gnostic". Gnostics are Christians who believe that the material world is evil and the creator of this world is a false "god" (or something like that). They believe that Jesus teaches knowledge so we can see past this "world" to the true "world" (or something like that).

Yes, yes! I apologize. I should have focused more carefully. A "false" god would imply a legitimate God. Two gods therefore. So I am better off with the Jewish view of an absolute Oneness of God. And, as Jesus was concerned, I could not see him teaching about another world. This is the true world; the world of the living. The world to come is the world of the dead aka Sheol, wherefrom no one will ever return. (II Samuel 12:23; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9; Psalms 49:12:20)

 

[Desert Snake]

Yes, yes! I apologize. I should have focused more carefully. A "false" god would imply a legitimate God. Two gods therefore. So I am better off with the Jewish view of an absolute Oneness of God

Jesus stated the He and the father are one. That contradicts your theory of Jesus teaching about 'another' singular 'god'. Unless your version of word definitions is completely different from what they actually mean.

 

[Desert Snake]

Tell me Pete, what do you believe after all this post about "Christ?" How can a Christian be agnostic? Are you an atheist in
the process to become a Christian or what?

'agnostic' is silly word when used to imply a position of ''not knowing''. counter to ''gnostic''. 'knowing' is a subjective thing, there is no objective definition for it, so used with either theism, or atheism, what have you, is also meaningless.

 

[Ben Avraham]

'agnostic' is silly word when used to imply a position of ''not knowing''. counter to ''gnostic''. 'knowing' is a subjective thing, there is no objective definition for it, so used with either theism, or atheism, what have you, is also meaningless.

Really! Let's see if you are right. I know with the help of Logic & Physics that the existence of the Primal Cause is a fact. Parting from the principle of the concept of Causality, let's check yourself as an evidence for the existence of the Primal Cause. Either you caused yourself to exist or you were caused to exist by someone else. Obviously, you could not have
caused yourself to exist because you had to exist to do so. If you already existed, you would have no need to still cause yourself to exist. It means, you did not cause yourself to exist. Who did then? Your parents, right? Yes. And your parents? Their parents. And their parents? Their parents. You must know by now where I am heading on. To the first parents. Who caused them to exist if they could not do the causing? Obviously, the Primal Cause. Now, please, prove that
am wrong.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Jesus stated the He and the father are one. That contradicts your theory of Jesus teaching about 'another' singular 'god'. Unless your version of word definitions is completely different from what they actually mean.

Very simply! Jesus was a Jew and as a Jew, he would not claim himself to be the same with God. Since the gospels were written by Hellenists former disciples of Paul, it is only obvious that the author of that gospel was interpolating an anti-Jewish forgery to enhance the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. Therefore, the Jewish view of the absolute Oneness of God remains true.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Hi Folks...

Ben Avraham; Hmm - do you not see the futility there though..??...

I tell you (all) the god of the bible is NOT the Father spirit that Christ speaks of - I tell you likewise the bible does NOT know His legitimate truth - and the response it to then direct me BACK to he BIBLE..???.....lol....WHATS the point then..???...

We ALREADY KNOW the bible is NOT His truth - so why refer back to it time and time again..??... All the stuff in the bible canon is WRITTEN BY MEN - but NOT WRITTEN BY DISCIPLE or CHRIST - or by ANYBODY that met any of them DIRECTLY....It is not LEGITIMATE - and the canon origins are highly dubious, openly stated the intent was to unify and dominate MANY seperate versions - the intent clearly stated to ENFORCE a UNIVERSAL truth over all regardless of ACTUAL LEGITIMATE TRUTH...The NEW testemant was formed for POLITICAL AGENDA and not for spiritual truth at all - that is undeniable.....The NEW testemant is not wriiten by disciple or Christ - that too is undeniable...therefore the new testamant is not an authority at all on Christ or His truth, cannot be trusted to give HIS truth, obviously not.....And look - the OLD testamant likewise - is about the specific INDIVIDUAL GOD we call Yhvh - and Christ went to great pains to explain to us all that that one is NOT OUR FATHER and has actually tricked and deceived us - great pains indeed for as we know they MURDER HIM to silence His truth !!

No Pete, there is no futility in my services to evidence the existence of the Primal Cause and the Biblical truth about Him as the Creator of the universe. If you don't believe in the existence of HaShem, what or who, in your mind caused the universe to exist? Do you, as a Christian gnostic, have what it takes to use Logic and Physics to prove the existence of the Primal Cause? No religious faith here, please! I am inviting you to sit down with me to bring that truth
out of our sleeves.

 

[Coder]

Very simply! Jesus was a Jew and as a Jew, he would not claim himself to be the same with God.

Once again, I recommend lending an ear to Ben: Philippians 2:6

At the same time though Jesus says "I am". John 8:58

I do believe that God can come to us in human form but at the same time He remains infinite.

 

[interminable]

The Absolute Oneness of God

Isaiah says that, absolutely, God cannot be compared with anyone or anything, as we read Isaiah 46:5. "To whom will ye liken Me, and make Me equal to , or compare Me with, that we may be alike?"

Therefore, more than one God would have been unable to produce the world; one would have impeded the work of the other, unless this could be avoided by a suitable division of labor.

More than one Divine Being would have one element in common, and would differ in another; each would thus consist of two elements, and would not be God.

More than one God are moved to action by will; the will, without a substratum, could not act simultaneously in more than one being.

Therefore, the existence of one God is proved; the existence of more than one God cannot be proved. One could suggest that it would be possible; but since as possibility is inapplicable to God, there does not exist more than one God. So, the possibility of ascertaining the existence of God is here confounded with potentiality of existence.

Again, if one God suffices, a second or third God would be superfluous; if one God is not sufficient, he is not perfect, and cannot be a deity.

Now, besides being God absolutely One, He is incorporeal. If God were corporeal, He would consist of atoms, and would not be one; or he would be comparable to other beings; but a comparison implies the existence of similar and of dissimilar elements, and God would thus not be One. A corporeal God would be finite, and an external power would be required to define those limits.

This is exactly what Muslims believe

He is unlimited If not , something(X) should limit him so (X)should exist befor him and we know that there is nothing befor God
He is the creator of everything

what religion do u believe in I wonder ??

 

[Ben Avraham]

This is exactly what Muslims believe

He is unlimited If not , something(X) should limit him so (X)should exist befor him and we know that there is nothing befor God
He is the creator of everything

what religion do u believe in I wonder ??

I am Jewish but one does not have to believe when he knows.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Once again, I recommend lending an ear to Ben: Philippians 2:6

At the same time though Jesus says "I am". John 8:58

I do believe that God can come to us in human form but at the same time He remains infinite.

God can every thing. He can come in all forms but one, the form we wish He came in or should have come. That's not how the Lord works.

Jesus does not say any thing for he has been dead for about 2000 years. Now, the claim that he said "I Am" was not written by a Jew but a Hellenist former disciple of Paul. A loyal Jew would never speak as God but for God.

 

[interminable]

I am Jewish but one does not have to believe when he knows.

Do all the jews believe in that or u have some diversions like Christianity and Islam?

 

[Ben Avraham]

Do all the jews believe in that or u have some diversions like Christianity and Islam?

No, I think I have a diversion for instance, to believe in the collective concept of the Messiah as a People and not as an individual. I take itfrom Prophet Habakkuk for instance that, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." (Habakkuk 3:13) That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka Israel the Son of God, according to Exodus 4:22,23. There are many Jews who still believe in an individual Messiah to come. IMHO, the Messiah cannot be an individual; the individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not! The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

 

[Coder]

...the claim that he said "I Am" was not written by a Jew but a Hellenist former disciple of Paul. A loyal Jew would never speak as God but for God.

Interesting Ben, because the Gospel of John is a later Gospel and I have been thinking that it may be heavily influenced by Greek philosophy and Greek/Roman pagan beliefs in "father-son gods" and "god-man" (from "gods" impregnating human women).

 

[Ben Avraham]

Interesting Ben, because the Gospel of John is a later Gospel and I have been thinking that it may be heavily influenced by Greek philosophy and Greek/Roman pagan beliefs in "father-son gods" and "god-man" (from "gods" impregnating human women).

And so is the gospel attributed to Matthew, the apostle of Jesus. The Greek doctrine of the demigod is clearly taught in Mat. 1:18 when they speak of Jesus as the son of God with an earthly woman named Mary without Joseph as Jesus' biological father. Absolutely not a Jewish gospel.It is only obvious that the Hellenist who wrote that gospel took it from Paul in Acts 9:20
when he would teach about Jesus as the son of God.