The Alleged Troubles With Atheism

[Nimos]

1. Atheism offers no hope.

Hope for what?

If its just hope in general, I think atheists have as much hope as everyone else.

2. Atheism cannot explain existence.

So far nothing can explain existences.

Simply throwing in God(s) might give an "excuse" of how we came to be, but it doesn't offer a satisfying explanation. I don't think any atheists have a major issue with this, except we would like to know

3. The amazing complexity of living things cannot be explained by atheism.

That is correct, it is explained by biology, chemistry etc.

And certainly theism can't explain it, because then there would be no need for scientists to try to figure it out.

4. Atheists are responsible for close to 100 million deaths during the twentieth century alone.

Some crazy individuals and people are responsible for killing a lot of people, but I highly doubt that the motivation were atheism.

5. Hitler was an atheist, and his atheism led him to commit his "final solution" resulting in the deaths of six million Jews.

Might have been, not sure.

But none the less, Hitler doesn't represent all atheists. Just as Osama Bin Laden didn't represent all Muslims etc. etc. You can find nutcases within all "religious" views or ideas.

6. If one is an atheist, then there is no objective basis for that person's morality.

Agree.

7. Atheism is illogical because it is impossible to know that God doesn't exist.

Its a negative position and is no more illogical than someone who doesn't believe in something else, such as fairies, pixies, gnomes or unicorns. Such person wouldn't be called illogical since there is no good reason to believe that set beings should exist.

8. Atheism is a ruse because there are no true atheists: Supposed atheists do believe in God but don't recognize God's authority because they would rather sin.

We don't recognize any God's period... authority or no authority doesn't matter, we don't believe they exist at all. Therefore we don't care about sin either.

9. Atheists have created ideas like evolution and the multiverse to avoid the fact that God created the cosmos and life.

Evolution have nothing to do with the creation of life and the multiverse is simply a theory in an attempt to explain how there is something rather than nothing, but it has nothing to do with atheism as such, as not all atheists believe in the multiverse idea.

10. Atheism is a mental illness brought on by childhood trauma regarding one's father which leads a person to reject her Heavenly Father.

Probably true

 

[Jagella]

I've heard most of these or have had theists try to explain them to me in roundabout or convoluted ways that these end up summarizing quite efficiently. They're all garbage, and demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of just how possible and easily a person can truly just not believe in God/gods. It's not like I sit there and think it oh so improbable that someone actually does believe in god. But so many theists just immediately act like they don't even want to believe that you don't believe. It's idiotic.

I think there's some truth to what's being said about atheists and atheism. Stalin, for example, was genocidal. But nothing on the list is compelling enough to believe in God(s), at least for me. I'm not going to believe in something that's obviously false because somebody tells me I'm a bad person if I don't believe what they're saying.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I think there's some truth to what's being said about atheists and atheism. Stalin, for example, was genocidal. But nothing on the list is compelling enough to believe in God(s), at least for me. I'm not going to believe in something that's obviously false because somebody tells me I'm a bad person if I don't believe what they're saying.

Au contraire. you are evil because you are an ath . . . ooh. Never mind.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

According to some religious apologists I'm acquainted with, atheism is a problematical way of looking at reality and living one's life. Here is a list of some of the criticisms of atheism and atheists I've heard:

1. Atheism offers no hope.
2. Atheism cannot explain existence.
3. The amazing complexity of living things cannot be explained by atheism.
4. Atheists are responsible for close to 100 million deaths during the twentieth century alone.
5. Hitler was an atheist, and his atheism led him to commit his "final solution" resulting in the deaths of six million Jews.
6. If one is an atheist, then there is no objective basis for that person's morality.
7. Atheism is illogical because it is impossible to know that God doesn't exist.
8. Atheism is a ruse because there are no true atheists: Supposed atheists do believe in God but don't recognize God's authority because they would rather sin.
9. Atheists have created ideas like evolution and the multiverse to avoid the fact that God created the cosmos and life.
10. Atheism is a mental illness brought on by childhood trauma regarding one's father which leads a person to reject her Heavenly Father.

Is there any truth to these criticisms?

Basically -- no truth at all, pure rubbish.

1. Atheism offers no hope. Hope isn't offered by belief. Hope is something we can all do. Believing in God may seem to offer hope until you realize that, as is demonstrated so often in the Bible, God Himself says, "No! **** off and die!"
2. Atheism cannot explain existence. Claiming "God did it," doesn't explain anything, either. It's just an unfounded assertion.
3. The amazing complexity of living things cannot be explained by atheism. Actually, the Theory of Evolution is a much, much better explanation of the amazing complexity of living things than God is. There is simply no rational way to get to the creation of pathogenic organisms that torture and kill us by assuming that a "loving creator" did it. Evolution explains it perfectly.
4. Atheists are responsible for close to 100 million deaths during the twentieth century alone. Religion has been killing people fior all of human history. You are mistaking political ideologies that adopt atheism as part of their mantra for atheism itself. Ideologues like Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot and so forth like killing people. Atheists have little interest.
5. Hitler was an atheist, and his atheism led him to commit his "final solution" resulting in the deaths of six million Jews. You might claim that Hitler was an atheist -- he certainy didn't. Hitler himself declared that he was "not a Catholic, but a German Christian," and the Nazi party promulgated "non-denominational positive Christianity.
6. If one is an atheist, then there is no objective basis for that person's morality. Pure rubbish. If you claim that "without God, I would be free to murder anybody," then you admit that you wouldn't mind doing so, and only don't because you are forbidden. I don't murder anybody because I think it's as wrong to do that to others as I think it would be wrong for them to do it to me. So -- would you really like to murder somebody, or rape somebody, but can't do it because you're terrified of punishment? Then it's you who has the morality problem, not me.
7. Atheism is illogical because it is impossible to know that God doesn't exist. Theism is illogical because it is impossble to know that God does exist. But atheism is more reasonable, because it is always best to proceed from what you can observe and test, rather than from what you imagine might be true.
8. Atheism is a ruse because there are no true atheists: Supposed atheists do believe in God but don't recognize God's authority because they would rather sin. Do you guys NEVER, EVER get tired of repeating that ridiculous trope? Atheists aren't spending their lives terrified of the horrible punishment God will wreak on us if we touch our own willies with pleasure -- that's over to you.
9. Atheists have created ideas like evolution and the multiverse to avoid the fact that God created the cosmos and life. Theists for some reason often seem incapable of learning science, and thus have to pretend that it doesn't exist. I would suggest you give up your computer -- science did that, not God.
10. Atheism is a mental illness brought on by childhood trauma regarding one's father which leads a person to reject her Heavenly Father. Well, what can anybody say to that -- that would pass the RF censor board?

 

[blü 2]

1. Atheism offers no hope.

It doesn't make any promises, so it doesn't break any. But there is no reason why an unbelieving life should be more lacking in effective living hope than a believing life.

2. Atheism cannot explain existence.

It's not atheism's job to explain existence. Science investigates such questions, and explains existence via the Big Bang and the theory of evolution. How does religion credibly explain existence?

The amazing complexity of living things cannot be explained by atheism.

True. But it can be explained by the theory of evolution.

Atheists are responsible for close to 100 million deaths during the twentieth century alone.

Unbelief never killed anyone. Politics does that. If in doubt, ask Patriarch Kirill.

Hitler was an atheist, and his atheism led him to commit his "final solution" resulting in the deaths of six million Jews.

Hitler's religious beliefs are a matter of some confusion, but he was a megalomaniacal dictator first and foremost, and was personally on good terms with the Vatican (which is why the Vatican was not occupied by Nazis on the fall of Italian Fascism during WW2.

If one is an atheist, then there is no objective basis for that person's morality.

That's simply the voice of ignorance. Humans are born with moral instincts and tendencies appropriate to gregarious primates ie social and cooperative critters.

Atheism is illogical because it is impossible to know that God doesn't exist.

If God has objective existence, just show us a recent photo or video.

Atheism is a ruse because there are no true atheists: Supposed atheists do believe in God but don't recognize God's authority because they would rather sin.

There are pro rata more believers in jail than unbelievers, so that won't work.

Atheists have created ideas like evolution and the multiverse to avoid the fact that God created the cosmos and life.

The statement is meaningless.

Atheism is a mental illness brought on by childhood trauma regarding one's father which leads a person to reject her Heavenly Father.

Very funny! The world has just finished a rolling series of government commissions enquiring into sexual abuse of children by churches, for example.

 

[stvdv]

Atheism offers no hope

Or no self delusion

Nor Self Realization

 

[stvdv]

Atheism cannot explain existence

True

No can religion but it seems a guess is good enough for religion

Religion can't

Religion offers only tools

You need to do the hard work yourself

 

[stvdv]

The amazing complexity of living things cannot be explained by atheism

True

Yes it can, evolution

False, and you explained to me ca. 3 years ago why

 

[Subduction Zone]

True


False, and you explained to me ca. 3 years ago why

Why do you think that evolution cannot explain the complexity of life? You may be projecting. The superstitious beliefs of creationists cannot make that explanation.

 

[stvdv]

Atheists are responsible for close to 100 million deaths during the twentieth century alone

Atheism has nothing to do with killing these 100 million

And religion is responsible for close on a billion deaths

Religion has nothing to do with killing these billion

 

[icehorse]

Is there any truth to these criticisms?

Many, if not all, of these claims commit logical fallacies of one sort or another. IMO, when you encounter a logical fallacy, you just have to skip over that claim as if it didn't exist.

It would be good exercise to try to list the fallacies. I'll do the first one:

Atheism offers no hope.

Wow, so many fallacies bundled into just those four words! I could argue false dilemma, overly broad generalization, vagueness and arbitrariness, and so on.

 

[stvdv]

Hitler was an atheist, and his atheism led him to commit his "final solution" resulting in the deaths of six million Jews

False. Atheism has nothing to do with Hitler's genocide

country. It took a lot of god believers to work those death camps

God believers are being taught "Do unto others what you want them to do unto you"

You call them true God believers who worked those camps?

 

[stvdv]

Why do you think that evolution cannot explain the complexity of life? You may be projecting. The superstitious beliefs of creationists cannot make that explanation.

I did not say evolution can"t

I replied with "False" to

Yes it can, evolution

Hint: I use the definition correctly here as taught to me by you and @ChristineM years ago

 

[Subduction Zone]

I did not say evolution can"t

I replied with "False" to


Hint: I use the definition correctly here as taught to me by you and @ChristineM years ago

What? Are you complaining because Christine did not use a complete sentence?

 

[stvdv]

Why do you think that evolution cannot explain the complexity of life?

I did not say nor imply this when answering

But now you ask:
Complexity of life is too complex to be explained by evolution alone

You may be projecting

No

 

[stvdv]

What? Are you complaining because Christine did not use a complete sentence?

No

@ChristineM and you taught me the definition of Atheism when I came to RF, and it was simple:
Atheism means "lack of God|gods belief" no more no less

 

[Clara Tea]

According to some religious apologists I'm acquainted with, atheism is a problematical way of looking at reality and living one's life. Here is a list of some of the criticisms of atheism and atheists I've heard:

1. Atheism offers no hope.
2. Atheism cannot explain existence.
3. The amazing complexity of living things cannot be explained by atheism.
4. Atheists are responsible for close to 100 million deaths during the twentieth century alone.
5. Hitler was an atheist, and his atheism led him to commit his "final solution" resulting in the deaths of six million Jews.
6. If one is an atheist, then there is no objective basis for that person's morality.
7. Atheism is illogical because it is impossible to know that God doesn't exist.
8. Atheism is a ruse because there are no true atheists: Supposed atheists do believe in God but don't recognize God's authority because they would rather sin.
9. Atheists have created ideas like evolution and the multiverse to avoid the fact that God created the cosmos and life.
10. Atheism is a mental illness brought on by childhood trauma regarding one's father which leads a person to reject her Heavenly Father.

Is there any truth to these criticisms?

If we stand in the middle of a freeway, a theist would have hope, and an atheist would move.

Theism can't explain existence either.

Amazing complexity of life can be explained by evolution, and DNA proves that everything is related.

Please explain how atheists are responsible for 100 million deaths in the twentieth century (I don't see it). Nazis, Putin, and W. Bush all "claimed to be" Christians (though God said "thou shalt not kill" so none of them were Christian).

Hitler started out a Christian, and Nazi Germany was a Christian nation. Germans celebrated Christmas while Jews were being exterminated and tortured.

Atheists are moral (usually). Theists are often immoral, and even pastors are sometimes immoral. I've heard more examples of immoral pastors than immoral atheists.

Atheists don't believe in God. You have no basis to state that atheists do believe in God but prefer to sin.

Atheists haven't created ideas like evolution to avoid belief in God. Rather, science proves evolution.

Atheism isn't a mental illness (this is a very nasty thing to say, and I think that it is a violation of forum rules). However, many turn to religion when a trauma happens. For example, if a woman has a stillborn child, they often turn to religion. If someone nearly dies from a drug overdose, they sometimes turn to religion (and they might have visions of God as a result of their drugs).

 

[Clara Tea]

According to some religious apologists I'm acquainted with, atheism is a problematical way of looking at reality and living one's life. Here is a list of some of the criticisms of atheism and atheists I've heard:

1. Atheism offers no hope.
2. Atheism cannot explain existence.
3. The amazing complexity of living things cannot be explained by atheism.
4. Atheists are responsible for close to 100 million deaths during the twentieth century alone.
5. Hitler was an atheist, and his atheism led him to commit his "final solution" resulting in the deaths of six million Jews.
6. If one is an atheist, then there is no objective basis for that person's morality.
7. Atheism is illogical because it is impossible to know that God doesn't exist.
8. Atheism is a ruse because there are no true atheists: Supposed atheists do believe in God but don't recognize God's authority because they would rather sin.
9. Atheists have created ideas like evolution and the multiverse to avoid the fact that God created the cosmos and life.
10. Atheism is a mental illness brought on by childhood trauma regarding one's father which leads a person to reject her Heavenly Father.

Is there any truth to these criticisms?

Everyone is free to choose their own religion, and you have no right to call someone insane for choosing atheism. I think that it violates forum rules.

 

[Clara Tea]

Hope for what?

If its just hope in general, I think atheists have as much hope as everyone else.


So far nothing can explain existences.

Simply throwing in God(s) might give an "excuse" of how we came to be, but it doesn't offer a satisfying explanation. I don't think any atheists have a major issue with this, except we would like to know


That is correct, it is explained by biology, chemistry etc.

And certainly theism can't explain it, because then there would be no need for scientists to try to figure it out.


Some crazy individuals and people are responsible for killing a lot of people, but I highly doubt that the motivation were atheism.


Might have been, not sure.

But none the less, Hitler doesn't represent all atheists. Just as Osama Bin Laden didn't represent all Muslims etc. etc. You can find nutcases within all "religious" views or ideas.


Agree.


Its a negative position and is no more illogical than someone who doesn't believe in something else, such as fairies, pixies, gnomes or unicorns. Such person wouldn't be called illogical since there is no good reason to believe that set beings should exist.


We don't recognize any God's period... authority or no authority doesn't matter, we don't believe they exist at all. Therefore we don't care about sin either.


Evolution have nothing to do with the creation of life and the multiverse is simply a theory in an attempt to explain how there is something rather than nothing, but it has nothing to do with atheism as such, as not all atheists believe in the multiverse idea.


Probably true

Sinning theists believe that they will go to hell (so they have no hope). They believe in original sin (but believe that Jesus saved them by letting God decide to let Jesus die a horrible death). Notice that Jesus asked God "why hath thou foresaken me?" That meant that Jesus didn't decide to die for our sins. Rather, God made the decision to allow Jesus to die a horrible death.

 

[Clara Tea]

I did not say nor imply this when answering

But now you ask:
Complexity of life is too complex to be explained by evolution alone

No

DNA proves that one species is related to another. We can see that some species develop a complexity that allows them to function better or function differently. So, DNA explains everything.