The Alleged Troubles With Atheism

[firedragon]

According to some religious apologists I'm acquainted with, atheism is a problematical way of looking at reality and living one's life. Here is a list of some of the criticisms of atheism and atheists I've heard:

1. Atheism offers no hope.
2. Atheism cannot explain existence.
3. The amazing complexity of living things cannot be explained by atheism.
4. Atheists are responsible for close to 100 million deaths during the twentieth century alone.
5. Hitler was an atheist, and his atheism led him to commit his "final solution" resulting in the deaths of six million Jews.
6. If one is an atheist, then there is no objective basis for that person's morality.
7. Atheism is illogical because it is impossible to know that God doesn't exist.
8. Atheism is a ruse because there are no true atheists: Supposed atheists do believe in God but don't recognize God's authority because they would rather sin.
9. Atheists have created ideas like evolution and the multiverse to avoid the fact that God created the cosmos and life.
10. Atheism is a mental illness brought on by childhood trauma regarding one's father which leads a person to reject her Heavenly Father.

Is there any truth to these criticisms?

Some of the claims seems to be unreasonable. As an example, Hitler was a self proclaimed Christian but I cant say if he was a "true Christian". His propaganda was the superiority of their Arya race. Also, it is not grounded in research that "there are no true atheists". I consider that completely baseless. But I have no research to prove that it is completely baseless. And ideas like evolution was not "created" by atheists. That is a very recent propaganda. Evolution was discussed by theists long before that. And I have no clue where the 10th point came from.

 

[RestlessSoul]

That list tells us more about theists than it does atheists.

I think it tells us more about an atheist’s alleged problem with theists. After all, an atheist wrote the list.

 

[joelr]

According to some religious apologists I'm acquainted with, atheism is a problematical way of looking at reality and living one's life. Here is a list of some of the criticisms of atheism and atheists I've heard:

1. Atheism offers no hope.
2. Atheism cannot explain existence.
3. The amazing complexity of living things cannot be explained by atheism.
4. Atheists are responsible for close to 100 million deaths during the twentieth century alone.
5. Hitler was an atheist, and his atheism led him to commit his "final solution" resulting in the deaths of six million Jews.
6. If one is an atheist, then there is no objective basis for that person's morality.
7. Atheism is illogical because it is impossible to know that God doesn't exist.
8. Atheism is a ruse because there are no true atheists: Supposed atheists do believe in God but don't recognize God's authority because they would rather sin.
9. Atheists have created ideas like evolution and the multiverse to avoid the fact that God created the cosmos and life.
10. Atheism is a mental illness brought on by childhood trauma regarding one's father which leads a person to reject her Heavenly Father.

Is there any truth to these criticisms?

Atheism offers no hope.
An all-or-nothing fallacy. Hope comes in many situations. You are talking about an afterlife. Religion does not offer hope of an afterlife because the evidence shows it isn't real.

Atheism cannot explain existence.

A fictional God did it isn't really an explanation. Mysteries are all around us, we don't get answers to all of them. Science does explain life very well.

The amazing complexity of living things cannot be explained by atheism.

No but science explains it extremely accurately. Even for religious folks science explains the universe very well. Now they have to explain why a complex supreme being started reality. Where did that come from and how do you know it's a conscious entity?

Atheists are responsible for close to 100 million deaths during the twentieth century alone.

"A census in May 1939, six years into the Nazi era[1] and after the annexation of mostly Catholic Austria and mostly Catholic Czechoslovakia[2] into Germany, indicates[3] that 54% of the population considered itself Protestant, 40% considered itself Catholic, 3.5% self-identified as Gottgläubig[4] (lit. "believing in God"),[5] and 1.5% as "atheist".[4] Protestants voted for the Nazi Party and made up its membership more than Catholics did."

Hitler was an atheist, and his atheism led him to commit his "final solution" resulting in the deaths of six million Jews.

Uh, or his crazy led him to commit the final solution? Remember the apologetic? The Priests who rape children are not practicing good Christianity? That works both ways.

If one is an atheist, then there is no objective basis for that person's morality.
1) we make rules and follow them, just like the billions of Islamic and Hindu religious people who you think are in fake religions.
2)you probably don't follow the actual ethics in your scripture. You probably speak to non-believers and allow women to speak in church and so on.

Atheism is illogical because it is impossible to know that God doesn't exist.

Except atheism doesn't say there is no God. It says the Gods in legends are myth. Like Zeus, Krishna or Yahweh.

Atheism is a ruse because there are no true atheists: Supposed atheists do believe in God but don't recognize God's authority because they would rather sin.
Speaking for a few atheists, we work, practice our hobbies, train, eat, watch movies, follow intellectual pursuits, date, see movies. What you would call "sin", not really part of my life. Although you can sin all you want? You just genuinely ask for forgiveness. Happens with Christians ALL THE TIME. What a lame apologetic!!!

Atheists have created ideas like evolution and the multiverse to avoid the fact that God created the cosmos and life.
Science did that based on actual evidence. This is an actual conspiracy theory about as factual as flatearth.

Atheism is a mental illness brought on by childhood trauma regarding one's father which leads a person to reject her Heavenly Father.
Religion is a cognitive bias where you think there is a heavenly father in outer space (or another dimension) who watches over you and listens to you. Probably brought on by childhood trauma and a need for the Universe to make sense and be all about you.

 

[Mock Turtle]

According to some religious apologists I'm acquainted with, atheism is a problematical way of looking at reality and living one's life. Here is a list of some of the criticisms of atheism and atheists I've heard:

Perhaps you need some new acquaintances - if this is the level of their thinking.

Atheism offers no hope.

Not its purpose. And hope as to what? Have all the various beliefs in God the same hopes? All the conflicts since religions were born would suggest otherwise - but of course one belief must be correct.

Atheism cannot explain existence.

Again, not its purpose. But it leaves open the way for science to attempt such rather than accepting a bunch of myths from various mostly unverified sources as to such and that are rather laughable in their believability - but suitable for children perhaps.

The amazing complexity of living things cannot be explained by atheism.

Again, not its purpose. But, as above, science has a better chance of doing so, and the theory of evolution is the better explanation as to such rather than anything coming from religions.

Atheists are responsible for close to 100 million deaths during the twentieth century alone.

Difficult to assign responsibility over deaths when one is mostly forced to kill others (by those in charge) by way of wars. And numbers of deaths is I would argue not the best hallmark as to weighing up such things, given that numbers of deaths are mostly related to the numbers of combatants involved and the weapons available at the time.

Hitler was an atheist, and his atheism led him to commit his "final solution" resulting in the deaths of six million Jews.

This is unlikely to be true, as commented by others, given that Hitler would have used religion in supporting his aims, and his war against the Jews is hardly different from many similar ones that have taken place between religions. He was just more methodical and ruthless as to such and hence did more damage.

If one is an atheist, then there is no objective basis for that person's morality.

This hardly means that atheists hence don't have an equally valid morality. And it does appear that our (human) morality has come via evolution, hence not being objective at all, given it evolved in the human species and where other species also display signs of morality, but such not being the same as ours even if they might overlap. Besides the fact that religions appear to have taken over morality as being their domain - objectively and from God - even when so much differs between religious beliefs. Would you accept the morality of the Taliban?

Atheism is illogical because it is impossible to know that God doesn't exist.

I think atheism is about as logical as proposing various qualities of God, and which so often results from believing in any such God, but I am a bit agnostic as to this, so I wouldn't argue too much on this point.

Atheism is a ruse because there are no true atheists: Supposed atheists do believe in God but don't recognize God's authority because they would rather sin.

Fatuous nonsense - hence doesn't even deserve a reply.

Atheists have created ideas like evolution and the multiverse to avoid the fact that God created the cosmos and life.

As above - just silly. The theory of evolution came from observation and thought - as to being the best explanation as to why species do vary and as to how they came to be. But this doesn't include the origins of life, which is still an unknown. I'm not a physicist so I'll leave the Multiverse and such to them.

Atheism is a mental illness brought on by childhood trauma regarding one's father which leads a person to reject her Heavenly Father.

Not even fatuous this one, but rather silly and a bit obnoxious, like calling all the religious dunderheads for being so gullible.

One might ask, why is it necessary to indoctrinate individuals into religious belief when they are most vulnerable (as children), since that is generally what happens, as opposed to atheism, where most probably come to such after a great deal of thought.

Is there any truth to these criticisms?

Truth, as in, made by idiots?

 

[Colt]

According to some religious apologists I'm acquainted with, atheism is a problematical way of looking at reality and living one's life. Here is a list of some of the criticisms of atheism and atheists I've heard:

1. Atheism offers no hope.
2. Atheism cannot explain existence.
3. The amazing complexity of living things cannot be explained by atheism.
4. Atheists are responsible for close to 100 million deaths during the twentieth century alone.
5. Hitler was an atheist, and his atheism led him to commit his "final solution" resulting in the deaths of six million Jews.
6. If one is an atheist, then there is no objective basis for that person's morality.
7. Atheism is illogical because it is impossible to know that God doesn't exist.
8. Atheism is a ruse because there are no true atheists: Supposed atheists do believe in God but don't recognize God's authority because they would rather sin.
9. Atheists have created ideas like evolution and the multiverse to avoid the fact that God created the cosmos and life.
10. Atheism is a mental illness brought on by childhood trauma regarding one's father which leads a person to reject her Heavenly Father.

Is there any truth to these criticisms?

Some of those are not accurate but generally I see Atheist as reality nonconforming.

 

[stvdv]

But now you ask:
Complexity of life is too complex to be explained by evolution alone

DNA proves that one species is related to another. We can see that some species develop a complexity that allows them to function better or function differently.

DNA indeed can be helpful to understand certain aspects about the "Complexity of Life"

So, DNA explains everything.

Personally I rather not make such a generalizing claim

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I'm bored so I'll give this a whack.

Atheism offers no hope.

Since I'm an atheist, I don't believe gods are real and offering hope. If someone is a theist because they want hope, isn't that just wishful thinking? I pretend I'm convinced of gods so I don't have to imagine what it would be like without them? Seems rather unhealthy to me.

Atheism cannot explain existence.

It doesn't need to. I'm not an atheist because I know how existence came about but because I see no reason to posit gods were part of it.

The amazing complexity of living things cannot be explained by atheism.

Same answer as last.

Atheists are responsible for close to 100 million deaths during the

The moral character of any or all atheists has no bearing on whether or not atheism is correct.

Hitler was an atheist, and his atheism led him to commit his "final solution" resulting in the deaths of six million Jews.

Same answer as last.

If one is an atheist, then there is no objective basis for that person's morality.

If there is no gods, then their assertion they have an objective source for morality is untrue. I'd argue that there being a god doesn't even mean an objective basis for morality. It's just morality subject to the pov of that god, filtered through the subjective interpretation of its prophets, the subjective interpretation of its scribes, and the subjective interpretation of its believers. Further, I don't attribute moral authority to power, age, invention, etc.

Atheism is illogical because it is impossible to know that God doesn't exist.

Atheism doesn't require certainty. See teapot analogy.

Atheism is a ruse because there are no true atheists: Supposed atheists do believe in God but don't recognize God's authority because they would rather sin.

This is a character assassination no more or less poignant than 'theism is a ruse because there are no true theists. Supposed theists do not believe in gods but pretend they do so they can assert moral authority they do not possess, and because they can't bear thinking about a universe where they are small and finite.'

Atheists have created ideas like evolution and the multiverse to avoid the fact that God created the cosmos and life.

Neverminding thay the vast majority of those who accept evolutionary biology are not atheists but theists, see previous answer about atheism not needing to explain anything about the universe.

Atheism is a mental illness brought on by childhood trauma regarding one's father which leads a person to reject her Heavenly Father.

See earlier answer about easily reversible character assassinations.

 

[exchemist]

Yes. See Faith of the Fatherless: The Psychology of Atheism by Paul Vitz. He argues that atheists reject a heavenly father due to disappointment in their earthly father.

Golly, you're right! What a crank. I had no idea such people existed.

 

[Augustus]

Religion has nothing to do with killing these billion

Obviously, because it didn't happen outside of someone's wildly prejudiced fantasy.

The idea religion (or religious war) has killed 1 billion people is the most ludicrously fabricated statistic in history, has absolutely no basis in reality and that no person who applied even a modicum of critical insight could take it seriously.

It's far more people than have died in all wars ever, and most wars, including most of the deadliest had nothing to do with religion.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Where are all these numbers coming from, and why can't I consolitate my post? How do I get rid of them?

From how the software handles ordered lists and such. Often one can defeat such by deleting back but perhaps easier to just copy and paste the list out of the original structure - as I did.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I think there's some truth to what's being said about atheists and atheism. Stalin, for example, was genocidal. But nothing on the list is compelling enough to believe in God(s), at least for me. I'm not going to believe in something that's obviously false because somebody tells me I'm a bad person if I don't believe what they're saying.

Yes.. Stalin, personally, was genocidal, and happened to be an atheist. There are no tenets of atheism he was adhering to, however, that prompted him to go about that business. And this because there are no tenets of atheism. To claim that there are is idiocy and ignorance.

 

[Augustus]

And religion has killed far more than this. It's fomented persecution, intolerance and endless wars throughout it's history.

It is actually quite debatable whether religious wars or explicitly atheistic ideologies like Marxism killed more people. It's highly probable that 'pound for pound' Marxism was more deadly given we are comparing 70 years to 2000+ years.

However even going by raw numbers, 100 million killed in religious wars would be a very generous estimate and likely much too high (even without accounting for the fact most of these deaths were indirectly caused by famine, disease, etc.)

100 million is also the upper estimate for 'Marxist' deaths, but again likely too high.

I imagine Marxism would also beat any single religion in a head-to-head death toll though.

Given there is no meaningful way to differentiate religious and non-religious ideologies though, saying one is better or worse than the other is pretty meaningless anyway.

 

[YoursTrue]

According to some religious apologists I'm acquainted with, atheism is a problematical way of looking at reality and living one's life. Here is a list of some of the criticisms of atheism and atheists I've heard:

1. Atheism offers no hope.
2. Atheism cannot explain existence.
3. The amazing complexity of living things cannot be explained by atheism.
4. Atheists are responsible for close to 100 million deaths during the twentieth century alone.
5. Hitler was an atheist, and his atheism led him to commit his "final solution" resulting in the deaths of six million Jews.
6. If one is an atheist, then there is no objective basis for that person's morality.
7. Atheism is illogical because it is impossible to know that God doesn't exist.
8. Atheism is a ruse because there are no true atheists: Supposed atheists do believe in God but don't recognize God's authority because they would rather sin.
9. Atheists have created ideas like evolution and the multiverse to avoid the fact that God created the cosmos and life.
10. Atheism is a mental illness brought on by childhood trauma regarding one's father which leads a person to reject her Heavenly Father.

Is there any truth to these criticisms?

I can't speak for everybody, but it seems like people have inborn consciences. Stealing is considered wrong even by atheists. Hitler was affected by many things plus I think he was also swayed by racial theories. But it doesn't seem so far off from what's going on today.

 

[viole]

Atheism offers no hope.

Even if that was true, it is irrelevant towards God's existence. At best, it shows some advantages in believing. Including believing in Apollo, I suppose. Ergo, advantages in deluding one selves.

Atheism cannot explain existence.

This assume that existence can only be explained by, at least, one god. But that is simply circular reason, and therefore logically fallacious.

The amazing complexity of living things cannot be explained by atheism.

Correct. It has been explained by Darwin. A Christian, at that time.

Atheists are responsible for close to 100 million deaths during the twentieth century alone.

Even if true, that would bear no weight on the objective existence of God or not. Same with Christians and Torquemada, although Christians burning people alive might expose themto logical contradictions with their creed. Those dictators also had moustaches, by the way.

Hitler was an atheist, and his atheism led him to commit his "final solution" resulting in the deaths of six million Jews.

Same fallacy. He was also a vegetarian. And did not drink. But of course, it would be a fallacy to infer that boring people are potential genocidal murders. And by the way, no atheist would write "Gott mit uns" on his knives.

If one is an atheist, then there is no objective basis for that person's morality.

If one is a theist, his objective basis, if any, stops at the objectivity of the target of his belief. Therefore, he is not much better off. Unless he beliefs that Apollo is objective, too.

Atheism is illogical because it is impossible to know that God doesn't exist.

Well, atheism is strictly the disbelief in God. Ergo, the theist must be illogical too if he disbelieves the above mentioned Apollo, fairies, Superman, Bigfoot, etc. Unless he does not disbelieve them, of course.

Atheism is a ruse because there are no true atheists: Supposed atheists do believe in God but don't recognize God's authority because they would rather sin.

Non sequitur. If I believed in a God, where that God is not equal to that Jesus stuff, I would still be a theist that might sin, from your point of view. For sin is applicable only to one very restricted bubble of belief.

Atheists have created ideas like evolution and the multiverse to avoid the fact that God created the cosmos and life.

Again, circular. If you have evidence that God created the cosmos and life show it to us. I could use similar reasonings, with the same exact warrant, to defeat religion: religious people have made up a God to avoid the fact that their own existence is merely naturalistic.

Atheism is a mental illness brought on by childhood trauma regarding one's father which leads a person to reject her Heavenly Father.

Again, non sequitur. I could use the same argument to postulate: Christianity, and co. is a mental illness brought on by childhood trauma regarding one's father which leads a person to substitute him with a Heavenly Father. Who cares for him, loves him, has a plan for him, does not come home drunk and beat him, and all those goodies that heavenly fathers do.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

False. Atheism has nothing to do with Hitler's genocide


God believers are being taught "Do unto others what you want them to do unto you"

You call them true God believers who worked those camps?

Of course -- they said they were, why would we not believe them? No different than the God believers of the Inquisition, nor the Puritans of Salem Mass. killing "witches," nor the Crusaders, spurred on directly by the church. All were very much "God believers."

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yes. See Faith of the Fatherless: The Psychology of Atheism by Paul Vitz. He argues that atheists reject a heavenly father due to disappointment in their earthly father.

Frankly, I think that's a pretty dumb thesis. It ignores something hugely important: that a felllow who deeply loves and admires his father -- who happens to be an atheist -- is immensely more likely to be atheist himself than otherwise.

 

[Debater Slayer]

But atheism is neither a "way of looking at reality" or a lifestyle. It's a simple lack of belief in a specific claim.
I'll address each of these:

1. Neither does a lack of belief in leprechauns or unicorns.
2. I wasn't aware atheism was a psychotherapeutic modality.
   
3. 
   
4. Atheism doesn't claim to explain anything. It makes no claims that need to be explained.
   
5. 
   
6. True -- that's the task of biology. Again, atheism is not a claim, doctrine, science or explanation.
7. Atheism has no beliefs.
   
8. 
   
9. And religion has killed far more than this. It's fomented persecution, intolerance and endless wars throughout it's history.
10. I'm assuming you're referring to the depredations of the officially 'atheistic' Soviets. Their murders were for various political expediencies, and not the result of any policy of atheism.
11. Hitler may have been a rabid anti-semite, but was not an atheist. Adolf Hitler Quotes About Atheism | A-Z Quotes
    
12. 
    
13. A list of rules said to be mandated by God hardly constitutes morality. It strikes me more as coercion.
14. Religion-based morality is often a crutch that obviates the need to develop strong, internalized moral principles, or even consider the function or consequences of mandated behaviors.
15. Morality evolved to facilitate coöperation and solidarity in an obligate social species. All cultures have norms of propriety and of right and wrong, no matter what its theology or lack thereof.
16. 
    
17. Atheism doesn't claim God does not exist -- that would be a logically unsupportable. The only unique -- and therefore definitive -- feature of all flavors of atheism is lack of belief.
    
18. 
    
19. Atheism is the logical, epistemic default. Noöne is born believing in God, we're all born atheists.
    Belief in God doesn't appear particularly good at preventing sin. Without the strong, internalized morality of atheists, people seem to do whatever they think they can get away with, anyway.
20. 
    
21. 
    
22. So science is an atheistic plot to facilitate denial of the unevidenced? To what end?
    
23. 
    
24. I don't see how this follows....
25. We're all born without a belief in God. How does one reject something one doesn't have to begin with -- unless it was taught to us at some later point?
26. 
    
27. Not a jot or a tittle.

Where are all these numbers coming from, and why can't I consolitate my post? How do I get rid of them?

The post is formatted to use bullet points, hence the numbers. I can edit it for you to remove them if you'd like.

 

[Link]

In the Quran, a prime characteristic of hypocrites is they don't come to the Messenger to ask forgiveness for their sins.

The excuses they come up with now, is that he is dead.

Why am I saying this? Because a diseased hardened heart can convince themselves that they don't know better when they do.

Muslims know Ali (a) is the Successor of Mohammad (s). There is almost no Sunni who does not. They don't submit. They even realize it every time they say "God bless Mohammad and the family of Mohammad" in their Salah, that the family of Mohammad (s) is chosen by God.

It's impossible to recite Quran and not realize the family of Mohammad (s) are chosen, as all the talk of the structure of Ahlulbayt in the past is obvious to lead to the current one.

They know better, but most Muslims outwardly deny Mohammad's (s) Successors and holy family.

Humans are not honest to themselves unfortunately.

Most humans have heard about the miracle of the Quran. Deep inside, they know God would prove his religion and that a book from him would stand above all writing as a sign from him to his religion.

Humans don't want to submit.

The only difference with atheists, they just want to do away with the God idea all together and not deal with religion in the first place.

Deep inside, they know they are a soul and that God exists, of course. What they deceived to themselves and how they tricked themselves not to submit and have faith in God and his signs, this secret will be revealed fully and shown on the day of judgment.

God is an obvious reality. He is the light of all light. No one doesn't know he exists. Sunnis know Ali (a) is Successor. And Christians and Jews over all know Mohammad (s) is a true Messenger.

How they trick themselves out of it, is something else.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Religion does not offer hope of an afterlife because the evidence shows it isn't real.

Oh really? I would challenge anyone to provide "evidence" to support that claim as in fact the best evidence available is highly supportive of the opposite to be true.

For example:
Bart Erhman, whilst not a believer anymore (he's at agnostic) is an expert in new testament and writings claims(quite rightly I might add) that the single most influential person who ever lived was Jesus Christ!
There are now loads of archeological evidence proving the historicity of the Bible timeline and narrative.
The geological science now coming out of Christian science is uncovering overwhelming evidence in support of the biblical flood narrative as well as research in y chomosome linking modern cultures back to a single source in nth Africa where it's believed is near the region the garden of Eden likely was located.

The evidence in support of the Bible is very strong when people bother to study it...most don't, instead listening to badly informed naysayers who actually don't give a damn.

At the end of the day, if I were to be a betting man, wouldn't I need to purchase a ticket before I can win the lottery no matter how big or small the odds? For humanity, this means if you don't become a Christian, there is no hope of winning. The Bible clearly explains this point, WE MUST CHOOSE TO FOLLOW CHRIST TO BE SAVED...it's that simple!

Finally, don't you find it odd that secular human written history is about the same age as the biblical record?

 

[Altfish]

Atheism offers no hope.
Religion offers false hope
Atheism cannot explain existence.
Neither can religion
The amazing complexity of living things cannot be explained by atheism.
No, neither does religion explain it
Atheists are responsible for close to 100 million deaths during the twentieth century alone.
If you say so. Nearly as many as God has killed
Hitler was an atheist, and his atheism led him to commit his "final solution" resulting in the deaths of six million Jews.
Hitler had "God is Good" on the Nazi uniform
If one is an atheist, then there is no objective basis for that person's morality.
So, you have such a deformed morality that if it wasn't for the threat of eternal hell you'd be going round robbing people.
Most atheists have better morals than that; I've never killed anyone, never raped anyone, etc.
Atheism is illogical because it is impossible to know that God doesn't exist.
Atheists will change their minds is evidence of god's existence is given.
Atheism is a ruse because there are no true atheists: Supposed atheists do believe in God but don't recognize God's authority because they would rather sin.
I refer you to my previous answer about morality. Atheists have a better moral compass because they do not need the threat of hell to be good.
Atheists have created ideas like evolution and the multiverse to avoid the fact that God created the cosmos and life.
Darwin was a believer when he discovered evolution.
Atheism is a mental illness brought on by childhood trauma regarding one's father which leads a person to reject her Heavenly Father.
Oh, so I am ill - how do you know about my childhood?

You do realise that atheism is just a rejection of a belief in god(s) - there is no code that goes with it; morals are added when you start living life and learn about empathy.