• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Amazing Quran

ameen

Member
This is the title of a small Booklet written by Gary Miller.
THE AMAZING QURAN

About the author:

Dr. Gary Miller is a Canadean professor in Math. He is a former Christian missionary and minister and very knowledgable of the bible. He converted to Islam in a very interesting Story. He decided to read the Quran to find mistakes and errors that he might take advantage of while inviting Muslims to convert to Christianity. He expected the Qur'an to be an old book written 14 centuries ago, a book that talks about the desert and so on. He was amazed from what he found.



Since he was a Prof in Math, he sees everything through with a logical mind. He started to read, and he was amazed how perfect the Quran is. He ended up converting to Islam, and having small booklets and a lot of lectures about Islam.

Booklet review:


This is a very small book, easy to read. It is about 17 pages and I finished in less than a night. It is a summary of long study of Gary Miller and conclusions he reached, with critical reasoning and strong logic that made him convert to Islam. I am a born Muslim, and I grew up with my strong faith. However, reading this book (and few other converts, that I will cover later) only strengthened my faith and showed me amazing angles of my religion that I have not seen before.

The book start with the following few words that explains its title:

Calling the Qur'an amazing is not something done only by Muslims, who have an appreciation for the book and who are pleased with it; it has been labeled amazing by non-Muslims as well. In fact, even people who hate Islam very much have still called it amazing.
While you read the book, you feel that you go to Gary Miller mind, or like he is thinking loudly. And he expresses his amazement situation after the other on the Quran and why it cannot be from human. If it is from human, Mohammad must be lying. So, Gary puts himself in the shoes of Mohammad, and read the Quran in a logical critical way or as he called it in the book: a "Scientific Approach to Quran".

Gary amazed by what he calls the "Falsification Test" by the Quran. How the book challenge others to prove it is wrong. And 1400 years passed, and no one could prove that. It states
(Surah An-Nisa, 4:82): "Do they not consider the Qur'an? Had it been from any other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy". It invites Muslims to find a mistake. One does not write a book then challenge others to find its mistakes.
<<If, indeed, one finds a mistake, then he has the right to disqualify it. This is exactly what the Qur'an encourages.>>.
<<for it creates a difficulty for one who says, "I do not believe it." At the onset of refusal one immediately has an obligation to find an explanation himself if he feels others' answers are inadequate.>>
Gary continue with amazement how Quran asked people to ask those who have knowledge (on what it was mentioned in Quran) if they doubt it:

This too is a surprising attitude. It is not usual to have a book that comes from someone without training in geography, botany, biology, etc., who discusses these subjects and then advises the reader to ask men of knowledge if he doubts anything. Yet in every age there have been Muslims who have followed the advice of the Qur'an and made surprising discoveries.
Then, he start giving stories and examples of scientific signs in Quran, that was only discovered in modern history.

I had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Keith Moore for a television presentation, and we talked a great deal about this. He mentioned that some of the things that the Qur'an states about the growth of the human being were not known until thirty years ago. In fact, he said that one item in particular - the Qur'an's description of the human being as a "leech-like clot" ('alaqah) at one stage (Surahs al-Hajj 22:5; al-Mu'minun 23:14; and Ghafir 40:67) - was new to him; but when he checked on it, he found that it was true, and so he added it to his book (University Text Book). He said, "I never thought of that before," and he went to the zoology department and asked for a picture of a leech. When he found that it looked just like the human embryo, he decided to include both pictures in one of his textbooks.
The only way this could be from human that is:

Dr. Moore taunted, "Maybe fourteen centuries ago someone secretly had a microscope and did this research, making no mistakes anywhere. Then he somehow taught Muhammad (s) and convinced him to put this information in his book. Then he destroyed his equipment and kept it a secret forever. Do you believe that?
Gary provides a lot of such reasoning's, and examples he encountered with scientists or ministers of discussions on Quran. It is like going in a journey with him, and he could not find a way to prove that this Quran was nothing less than perfect. This journey is free of emotions or biased. Pure strong logical mind.

With that, he provides a lot of examples where many things are mentioned in the Quran are aligned with what we know today in 20th century. People who doubt Quran, say: it is a matter of chance (50% chance that this text was aligned). He explains that this assumption is impossible if you look into all of these situations in the Quran:

(i.e., one time out of eight or ½ x ½ x ½ ). Again, the odds of choosing the correct choice in all three situations have decreased his chances of being completely correct to only one time in eight. It must be understood that as the number of situations increase, the chances of being right decrease, for the two phenomena are inversely proportional.

Now applying this example to the situations in the Qur'an, if one draws up a list of all of the subjects about which the Qur'an has made correct statements, it becomes very clear that it is highly unlikely that they were all just correct blind guesses. Indeed, the subjects discussed in the Qur'an are numerous and thus the odds of someone just making lucky guesses about all of them become practically nil. If there are a million ways for the Qur'an to be wrong, yet each time it is right, then it is unlikely that someone was guessing.
After that, Gary continue with giving different examples of these situations where Quran was very precise in what we know today. One was about the bee, one about the sun and one about the different time zones.

Finally Gary reached a mathametical conclusion:
But what no one can deny is the following: the odds that Muhammad (s), an illiterate, guessed correctly about thousands and thousands of subjects, never once making a mistake, are so high that any theory of his authorship of the Qur'an must be completely dismissed - even by the most hostile enemies of Islam!

Finding the booklet:

The booklet is easier to find on the net rather on bookstores. It is not a typical commercial book. There is only used copy in amazon. I am posting a link where you can download the booklet in pdf and other links about Gary or writings of by:
Download
The True Call
The basis of Muslims Beliefs
Islam and Christianity: presentation by Gary Miller
 

neves

Active Member
thanks you for this.. I never heard of this Gary Miller, I will read this when i have some free time...
 

kai

ragamuffin
Finally Gary reached a mathametical conclusion:
But what no one can deny is the following: the odds that Muhammad (s), an illiterate, guessed correctly about thousands and thousands of subjects, never once making a mistake, are so high that any theory of his authorship of the Qur'an must be completely dismissed - even by the most hostile enemies of Islam!

I wonder could Gary prove to me that Muhammad actually did author the Quran?
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
The Quran is not a science text book. It is not perfect, it is just another book requiring submission to some magical dude in the sky.

What is not logical is assuming that this man is some kind of special case because he is a professor in mathematics.

If the Quran was so amazing there would be 5 billion muslims, not 1.5 billion.
 

neves

Active Member
The Quran is not a science text book. It is not perfect, it is just another book requiring submission to some magical dude in the sky.

What is not logical is assuming that this man is some kind of special case because he is a professor in mathematics.

If the Quran was so amazing there would be 5 billion muslims, not 1.5 billion.

The message could have a perfect signal, but if there is a problem at the receiving end, there nothing that can be done unless the receiver is fixed... (I know a corny analogy) ...
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
The message could have a perfect signal, but if there is a problem at the receiving end, there nothing that can be done unless the receiver is fixed... (I know a corny analogy) ...

I guess, one has to be willing to submit to the Quran, Allah and Islamic teachings. Some of us are just not programmed to understand any of it.

My main point is that the Quran would have no bearing on this mans ability to be a professor in mathematics. The Quran doesn't contradict mathematics at all.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
I wonder could Gary prove to me that Muhammad actually did author the Quran?
*Starts humming... Here we go round the Mulberry bush...*

Actually Kai, it is unlikely that Miller would be inclined to prove the Qur'an was authored by Muhammad. It would tend to put a crimp in things.
 
Last edited:

neves

Active Member
I guess, one has to be willing to submit to the Quran, Allah and Islamic teachings. Some of us are just not programmed to understand any of it.

My main point is that the Quran would have no bearing on this mans ability to be a professor in mathematics. The Quran doesn't contradict mathematics at all.

Point taken and noted...
 

kai

ragamuffin
*Starts humming... Here we go round the Mulberry bush...*

Actually Kai, it is unlikely that Miller would be inclined to prove the Qur'an was authored by Muhammad. It would tend to put a crimp in things.

indeed !
 

Snowber

Active Member
Interesting read.

Since this is in the debate section I just wanted to add one thing:

We have no evidence that Muhammad was truly illiterate. Here is some of the Koranic evidence:

Prophet Muhammad - Illiterate?

I personally believe that illiteracy was made up by those with enough doubts in their hearts so that they could claim that the Koran was amazing. In fact, the Koran is amazing for many reasons, we don't need to make up reasons, I support finding truth in the Koran, but when we have so many websites making fake claims it only repels people from the true message.

Peace and thanks for the read.
 

sonofskeptish

It is what it is
At least there is something "amazing" about this one...

mini-quran.jpg
 

Smoke

Done here.
Gary amazed by what he calls the "Falsification Test" by the Quran. How the book challenge others to prove it is wrong. And 1400 years passed, and no one could prove that. It states
(Surah An-Nisa, 4:82): "Do they not consider the Qur'an? Had it been from any other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy". It invites Muslims to find a mistake. One does not write a book then challenge others to find its mistakes.
<<If, indeed, one finds a mistake, then he has the right to disqualify it. This is exactly what the Qur'an encourages.>>.
<<for it creates a difficulty for one who says, "I do not believe it." At the onset of refusal one immediately has an obligation to find an explanation himself if he feels others' answers are inadequate.>>
The falsification test is nonsense. Suppose I give you a novel by Louis L'amour and challenge you to find an error in it. If you can't find an error, will you admit that the novel is from Allah and Louis L'amour is the messenger of Allah?

Nevertheless: Contradictions / Difficulties in the Qur'an

Then, he start giving stories and examples of scientific signs in Quran, that was only discovered in modern history.
I had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Keith Moore for a television presentation, and we talked a great deal about this. He mentioned that some of the things that the Qur'an states about the growth of the human being were not known until thirty years ago. In fact, he said that one item in particular - the Qur'an's description of the human being as a "leech-like clot" ('alaqah) at one stage (Surahs al-Hajj 22:5; al-Mu'minun 23:14; and Ghafir 40:67) - was new to him; but when he checked on it, he found that it was true, and so he added it to his book (University Text Book). He said, "I never thought of that before," and he went to the zoology department and asked for a picture of a leech. When he found that it looked just like the human embryo, he decided to include both pictures in one of his textbooks.

leech.png
 
Interesting read.

Since this is in the debate section I just wanted to add one thing:

We have no evidence that Muhammad was truly illiterate. Here is some of the Koranic evidence:

Prophet Muhammad - Illiterate?

I personally believe that illiteracy was made up by those with enough doubts in their hearts so that they could claim that the Koran was amazing. In fact, the Koran is amazing for many reasons, we don't need to make up reasons, I support finding truth in the Koran, but when we have so many websites making fake claims it only repels people from the true message.

Peace and thanks for the read.
:eek: :eek: :eek:
Wow ... scholarship and objectivity ... how refreshing. Frubals to you, sir!
 

Snowber

Active Member
The falsification test is nonsense. Suppose I give you a novel by Louis L'amour and challenge you to find an error in it. If you can't find an error, will you admit that the novel is from Allah and Louis L'amour is the messenger of Allah?

Smoke,

I am not particularly defending the author since I don't know much about him but I want to point out that the argument has no bearing, let me tell you why:

The Koran was revealed 1400 years ago in a time of ignorance (you can argue the ignorance I suppose but, nevertheless, it was 1400 years ago), do you know the chances of a book being directly revealed to not have an error in it typographically? Today if we get to see how many errors editors find in novels it's amazing how much they can find, not to mention the errors that still linger in there anyway.
 
A number of people on this forum have started threads like this one. Verses from the Qur'an are cited. Scientific-sounding interpretations are given. Articles written by two or three scientists out of thousands are cited.

On several occasions I took the time to actually read what my Muslim friends on RF posted. I read carefully and responded thoughtfully. Here are thread pages with my responses to these Qur'anic "scientific miracles" ... I can say that virtually every single colleague and friend I have who specializes in the physical sciences would agree with me ... take it for whatever it is worth:

Of Dr. Keith Moore, I unearthed the following interesting information:
Mr Spinkles said:
Yes and I am sure Dr. Moore also appreciated it when the Saudis paid him to allow [FONT=arial, helvetica]Shaykh Abdul-Majeed A. Azzindani to[/FONT] add "Islamic additions" to his book for Muslim students at Islamic Universities. His book sells for U.S. $36 each, and there are 1 billion Muslims in the world, many of them very interested in having a white, Western scientist affirm the Qur'an....virtually none of the other hundreds and hundreds of experts in embryology take his views seriously is another clue. (Here is a video of Dr. Champbell who disagrees with Dr. Moore....start at 3:40.)
(Check out the links)

This article confirms and explains what I have found about the "scientific miracles in the Qur'an" myth which has become popular among my Muslim friends:
...

"Almost everything, from relativity, quantum mechanics, Big Bang theory, black holes and pulsars, genetics, embryology, modern geology, thermodynamics, even the laser and hydrogen fuel cells, have been 'found' in the Quran," says Nidhal Guessoum, professor of astrophysics at the American University of Sharjah. Whereas centuries ago, Muslim mathematicians discovered algebra (and led the world in countless fields of knowledge), some of today's believers look to the Quran for equations to yield the value of the speed of light or the age of the universe, and other bewildering feats.


The tendency to read science in the Quran has a long history. In the 1950s, for example, when the US and the Soviet Union were competing to put a man in space, pamphlets appeared in India and Pakistan in which Quranic verses on the all-powerful nature of God were quoted to "prove" that manned space flight would never happen. However, for the current manifestation of ijaz, we need to thank not writers from the madrasas of the Middle East, but two western professors - neither man a Muslim.
...
Read more here: New Statesman - Weird science
 
In each of these cases, by the way, I expected to be amazed by the Amazing Quran. I didn't expect to be convinced necessarily, but I expected to at least see something sort of impressive. Sort of like if you go watch Penn and Teller do their magic show, you don't expect to be persuaded that they are real magicians, but you expect to at least be amazed.

In each case of "scientific miracles" in the Qur'an, I have ended up amazed only by the eagerness of people to believe in such miracles based on such mundane and flimsy evidence.
 
What's really amazing about the Qur'an, IF it was dictated by an all-knowing being, is that it describes things like mountains, fetal development, the Sun, etc. without mentioning the most BASIC facts necessary to understand these things, such as tectonic plates, DNA and cells, and gravity and nuclear reactions. These are always the starting points even when teaching children about these topics for the first time. These are glaring omissions, not to mention (as far as I know) a complete and utter lack of mathematical or quantitative knowledge. How about the mass of the electron? The distance to the Sun? Or some advanced mathematical proof? All missing. And yet even ancient humans thousands of years before the Qur'an gave accurate measures of astronomical distances, mathematical proofs, diagrams of anatomy, etc. Instead we have "amazing" descriptions whose interpretation depends crucially on subjective opinion and on knowing the desired scientific explanation beforehand .... they are amazing descriptions which aren't amazing to anyone except Muslims, and occasionally a kooky Western scientist looking to sell more text books. Go figure.

These omissions are exactly what we expect from the Qur'an and all ancient human writings .... ancient philosophers and scientists don't talk about atoms or cells or DNA or advanced theorems in calculus because they had no knowledge of these things.
 
Last edited:

Smoke

Done here.
Smoke this is the first weak post I've seen of yours. That's a christian anti-islamic website and half the stuff on there is complete nonsense.
Yeah, I was being lazy. Certainly the parts about "proving" the Qur'an is wrong because it contradicts the Bible are nonsensical, but there's more to the list than that; you just have to sort the good arguments out from the bad ones. I didn't bother to present any problems with the Qur'an myself because I know the futility of discussing errors or contradictions in either the Bible or the Qur'an with believers. My point is that the Qur'an is not unassailable.
 
Top