The Anchor of Faith

[74x12]

Wasn't god alive when Jesus died?

Yes. The point is God made Himself a mortal body so He could experience death.

God is all strength. Not all weakness. So by being "all powerful" that means God cannot be weak. So the words "almighty" is just all + mighty. All strength. God has all strength that exists and we leave it at that.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes. The point is God made Himself a mortal body so He could experience death.

God is all strength. Not all weakness. So by being "all powerful" that means God cannot be weak. So the words "almighty" is just all + mighty. All strength. God has all strength that exists and we leave it at that.

Consider the result of the sun coming to earth. In the same way God can not and does not enter a human body.

Now consider the life giving rays of the sun tha sustain all life on earth. In this way God gives the Holy Spirit to a Chosen Messsenger. It is when we partake of those life giving rays reflected in the Messenger that we become born again.

That is how Jesus the Son returned as Baha'u'llah the Father, it is the same Sun reflected from both of them.

God remains unknowable, unseen in essence but known by the attributes when we accept the reflection of the attributes of the Messenger.

John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

Regards Tony

 

[dfnj]

Consider the result of the sun coming to earth. In the same way God can not and does not enter a human body.

Now consider the life giving rays of the sun tha sustain all life on earth. In this way God gives the Holy Spirit to a Chosen Messsenger. It is when we partake of those life giving rays reflected in the Messenger that we become born again.

That is how Jesus the Son returned as Baha'u'llah the Father, it is the same Sun reflected from both of them.

God remains unknowable, unseen in essence but known by the attributes when we accept the reflection of the attributes of the Messenger.

John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

Regards Tony

What does Bahaullah say about daughters being sacred? Because in my experience, there's is nothing more sacred, beautiful, and divine than the love in a young girl's heart.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What does Bahaullah say about daughters being sacred? Because in my experience, there's is nothing more sacred, beautiful, and divine than the love in a young girl's heart.

In the Baha'i Writings, for this age, it is said that women will reach their full potential and thus in many ways exceed men. Even though to God we are equal, women better reflect the loving virtues and will be foremost the bringers of peace to all humanity.

There is nothing more special than a husband and wife being so united as to be as one soul. This should be our aim so we can then impart that unity to family, on to community and then humanity as a whole.

It is Baha'i law that if we can not afford education for all our children, then preference is to be given to the female.

Regards Tony

 

[1213]

Could you provide the quotes? My information based on some conversations is that word "Gehanna" was translated as hell - "gahanna" is a word for garbage dump where waste used to be burnt in ancient times -

There is no actual mention of a Hell or Heaven for that matter in the Bible

There is mention of Kingdom of God certainly = but to equate that with "Heaven" is a modern variation of the theme

Even if word hell would mean in Bible Gehenna, or garbage dumb, I don’t think it would mean it doesn’t exist.

But, Bible tells this:

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:43


Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:12-15

So, Gehenna, or hell is a burning place, where soul and body can be destroyed.

And about heaven it is said for example:

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Matt. 6:9

And what does heaven mean. Bible tells God is spirit. I think spirit is not material thing, but similar to ideas. so, if spirit is in heaven, I think heaven means higher level of existence, similar to level of ideas.

God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
John 4:24

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And what does heaven mean. Bible tells God is spirit. I think spirit is not material thing, but similar to ideas. so, if spirit is in heaven, I think heaven means higher level of existence, similar to level of ideas.

Hell likewise all lower level of existance.

Heaven is nearness to God, hell is remoteness.

The burning thus becomes the remorse of rejecting God, the regret of missed opportunities.

Regards Tony

 

[sealchan]

I ask you a question, and you say I'm trying to pick a fight. Was the question that hard to answer?

Are you a god of the gaps person?

I don't think scientific gaps prove God, they are openings for further scientific progress...but those gaps make for great places to insert God, gods or god-like aliens into well crafted modern literature.

One good example is the wormhole aliens in Star Trek: Deep Space 9. They exist outside of time. As such they seem to have some capabilities of prophecy for that reason. We understand that the nature of space is also the shape of time and so in Star Trek we see some sci-fi interpretations of the future possibilities through technology of how we might be able to transcend our current limitations within space-time. Now we might also gently set aside some of the contradictions in our current scientific knowledge that are also displayed in that show such as noise in space and the invention of trilithium crystals and such. We do this not because we are bad scientists but because we are in a frame of mind to be entertained and even inspired as to what the future might hold for us, but also the possibilities of human ingenuity to solve problems that more powerful beings or forces might present to us.

My god is first and foremost a literary creation meant to tap into what I would claim are objective aspects of human psychology. I do not worry or concern myself with proving the objective physical reality of God.

This is probably such a watered down version of God that I don't think that you really want to argue with me.

My strongly atheist step-daughter and I agree on many things except the value of faith. But even there we are both in agreement on the belief that Terry Pratchett's book/movie Hogfather is awesome because of this dialog:

Hogfather Quotes by Terry Pratchett

 

[Audie]

Jesus is God manifest. So yes God did put Himself to death in that sense.

How do we know God is all powerful? Because He's the truth. He's reality. So every power is God's.

She asked me how I know it. Not how she could know it. Two different questions.

Thanks for answering. We sure do not think alike.

 

[sealchan]

Yes. The point is God made Himself a mortal body so He could experience death.

God is all strength. Not all weakness. So by being "all powerful" that means God cannot be weak. So the words "almighty" is just all + mighty. All strength. God has all strength that exists and we leave it at that.

If God cannot be weak then he is not all powerful. If God cannot die then the same.

The only death that makes sense is one where there is nothing left of a person to be able for them to bring themselves back. If God can die and be reborn then it must be from the Great Mother.

 

[Neuropteron]

Faith is a belief in something beyond proof.

The word "faith" is translated from the Greek pi'stis, primarily conveying the thought of confidence, trust firm persuasion or conviction.

Christendom has undermined the true definition of faith required by christ.

The true meaning of faith can be understood by what the Apostle Paul said in Heb11:1 :
"Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not yet seen"

"assured expectation" translates the Greek word hy'pos'sta'sis. This term is used in ancient papyrus business documents and conveys the idea of something that underlies visible conditions and guarantees a future possession.

In other words Faith is the title deed of things hoped for"
source: Vocabulary of the Greek Testament, 1963.

 

[sealchan]

The word "faith" is translated from the Greek pi'stis, primarily conveying the thought of confidence, trust firm persuasion or conviction.

Christendom has undermined the true definition of faith required by christ.

The true meaning of faith can be understood by what the Apostle Paul said in Heb11:1 :
"Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not yet seen"

"assured expectation" translates the Greek word hy'pos'sta'sis. This term is used in ancient papyrus business documents and conveys the idea of something that underlies visible conditions and guarantees a future possession.

In other words Faith is the title deed of things hoped for"
source: Vocabulary of the Greek Testament, 1963.

Sure, I'll buy that.

That all fits in with the sense that a person's faith often entails the promise of a payoff at some later time that is seen as practical and as real as the mundane reality they presently find themselves in. It is also typically something that is not subject to scientific proof.

 

[Timothy Spurlin]

I don't think scientific gaps prove God, they are openings for further scientific progress...but those gaps make for great places to insert God, gods or god-like aliens into well crafted modern literature.

One good example is the wormhole aliens in Star Trek: Deep Space 9. They exist outside of time. As such they seem to have some capabilities of prophecy for that reason. We understand that the nature of space is also the shape of time and so in Star Trek we see some sci-fi interpretations of the future possibilities through technology of how we might be able to transcend our current limitations within space-time. Now we might also gently set aside some of the contradictions in our current scientific knowledge that are also displayed in that show such as noise in space and the invention of trilithium crystals and such. We do this not because we are bad scientists but because we are in a frame of mind to be entertained and even inspired as to what the future might hold for us, but also the possibilities of human ingenuity to solve problems that more powerful beings or forces might present to us.

My god is first and foremost a literary creation meant to tap into what I would claim are objective aspects of human psychology. I do not worry or concern myself with proving the objective physical reality of God.

This is probably such a watered down version of God that I don't think that you really want to argue with me.

My strongly atheist step-daughter and I agree on many things except the value of faith. But even there we are both in agreement on the belief that Terry Pratchett's book/movie Hogfather is awesome because of this dialog:

Hogfather Quotes by Terry Pratchett

So you are a god of the gaps person.
So you can't prove your god is real?
All that leaves you with is subjective thoughts from your mind?

 

[Timothy Spurlin]

Yes. The point is God made Himself a mortal body so He could experience death.

God is all strength. Not all weakness. So by being "all powerful" that means God cannot be weak. So the words "almighty" is just all + mighty. All strength. God has all strength that exists and we leave it at that.

Do you have objective evidence your god is real? Surely an almighty God would leave evidence it's real.

 

[Timothy Spurlin]

She asked me how I know it. Not how she could know it. Two different questions.

So your argument was circular and subjective?

 

[sealchan]

So you are a god of the gaps person.
So you can't prove your god is real?
All that leaves you with is subjective thoughts from your mind?

Regarding your first question, I don't think you are reading me correctly, perhaps not even sincerely. I invite others to weigh in on this for a 3rd party confirmation.

I answer mostly, but not entirely, yes to the last two questions with the caveat that on the last question you seem to think that subjective thoughts are of little value. That is a highly dubious statement and one that most atheists don't realize is a huge, unjustified assumption on their part.

Are you familiar with the philosophy of Daniel Dennett per chance? If not, what philosophies, opinions, etc have you studied that have helped you to form you views on this subject?

 

[sealchan]

So your argument was circular and subjective?

In your mind (your own mind) do you believe that subjectivity = error, lie, falsehood?

 

[sealchan]

Do you have objective evidence your god is real? Surely an almighty God would leave evidence it's real.

Why do you suppose that "surely an almighty God would leave evidence it's real?" On what do you base your certainty of this? A faith, perhaps, that physical evidence and scientific knowledge (even though it is growing at leaps and bounds these days) always was, is and always will be sufficient for personal decision making and truth determination?

If so, how do you explain your lack of professional training and degrees in all of the relevant scientific subjects one would need to study to be a true expert polymath?

Let's get real here. Your questions are not evidencing much in the way of listening skills. You are beginning to sound like a bot.

 

[Timothy Spurlin]

Why do you suppose that "surely an almighty God would leave evidence it's real?" On what do you base your certainty of this? A faith, perhaps, that physical evidence and scientific knowledge (even though it is growing at leaps and bounds these days) always was, is and always will be sufficient for personal decision making and truth determination?

If so, how do you explain your lack of professional training and degrees in all of the relevant scientific subjects one would need to study to be a true expert polymath?

Let's get real here. Your questions are not evidencing much in the way of listening skills. You are beginning to sound like a bot.

If I was god, I would leave objective evidence that I created the universe.
Why would an almighty God hide from us finding it?
I don't use faith, faith is believing without evidence.
Can you prove your god is real?

 

[Timothy Spurlin]

In your mind (your own mind) do you believe that subjectivity = error, lie, falsehood?

No.
But subjective comes from the mind.
Objective evidence exist outside of the mind, and it is testable.

 

[sealchan]

If I was god, I would leave objective evidence that I created the universe.
Why would an almighty God hide from us finding it?
I don't use faith, faith is believing without evidence.
Can you prove your god is real?

Why would you leave objective, physical evidence as a god?

I cannot prove that my God is real by virtue of physical evidence.