The Apostle's creed

[michel]

(with apologies to those whose faith has a different wording)

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
Amen.

Why did Christ 'descend into hell' ? Is that literall ? How do you understand it, and the need for it ?

 

[Buttons*]

yeah, the Episcopal one says "Apistolic Chruch" but i mostly dont take it that seriously because it wasnt written during Yeshua's time. It wasn't in the Bible, so why should we follow it?

 

[James the Persian]

(with apologies to those whose faith has a different wording)

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
Amen.

Why did Christ 'descend into hell' ? Is that literall ? How do you understand it, and the need for it ?

That refers to the tradition of the harrowing of Hell, which should more properly be called the harrowing of Hades. He didn't descend into the place of torment that some conceive of as Hell, but rather the grave - the place of rest of those who have died. He preached to those who had passed on before the Incarnation and allowed them to ascend to Heaven. We do understand it literally and it is shown in icons of the Resurrection (Christ stands on the broken doors of 'Hell') but whether viewed literally or metaphorically, the import is the same - by His death and Resurection, Christ destroyed the hold of death over mankind and opened the way to heaven, not just for those who were alive then or have been born since, but for all including those already passed on.

James

 

[James the Persian]

yeah, the Episcopal one says "Apistolic Chruch" but i mostly dont take it that seriously because it wasnt written during Yeshua's time. It wasn't in the Bible, so why should we follow it?

The New Testament wasn't written in the time of Christ either, so why follow that? And, of course, the Bible was never meant to be the be all and end all of the faith and the Church long pre-dates its composition. For the record, we don't use the Apostle's Creed either, but I see nothing wrong in the theology of it.

James

 

[Buttons*]

Just voicing my opinion, I'm not really Christian anyway, so I wouldnt listen to me if I were you

 

[michel]

That refers to the tradition of the harrowing of Hell, which should more properly be called the harrowing of Hades. He didn't descend into the place of torment that some conceive of as Hell, but rather the grave - the place of rest of those who have died. He preached to those who had passed on before the Incarnation and allowed them to ascend to Heaven. We do understand it literally and it is shown in icons of the Resurrection (Christ stands on the broken doors of 'Hell') but whether viewed literally or metaphorically, the import is the same - by His death and Resurection, Christ destroyed the hold of death over mankind and opened the way to heaven, not just for those who were alive then or have been born since, but for all including those already passed on.

James

Thanks James, about the part highlighted in Red, I did wonder if, by this act, Christ gave the ability for all to go to heaven.

 

[anders]

The Swedish Lutheran version is fairly identical to the OP version. I never reacted to the hell part, but thought that it just meant that he died.

I am not, but have been, a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Sweden, but for convenience, I will write "our" etc.

Our version of course doesn't literally refer to "catholic", but would backtranslated be something like "common" or "all-encompassing" etc.

We strengthen the "only" thing to "only-begotten".

The "communion of saints" is to us the "association of the holy ones". I never understood that part, because I didn't consider my humble self "holy", and who were, then, the holy ones?

 

[James the Persian]

Our version of course doesn't literally refer to "catholic", but would backtranslated be something like "common" or "all-encompassing" etc.

Common would be reasonably close. Catholic means 'according to the whole' not universal as many RC apologists would have it. In Slavic languages (and in Romanian, where catolic refers only to RC) the word used translates as something close to 'conciliar', which is also how the Greeks (who ought to know as it comes from their language see it). Obviously, the 'catholic' in the various creeds does not refer to the Roman Catholic Church as that did not exist as such at the time. Even the latest of the three common creeds (the 'Athanasian') long pre-dates the Schism.

James

 

[michel]

Common would be reasonably close. Catholic means 'according to the whole' not universal as many RC apologists would have it. In Slavic languages (and in Romanian, where catolic refers only to RC) the word used translates as something close to 'conciliar', which is also how the Greeks (who ought to know as it comes from their language see it). Obviously, the 'catholic' in the various creeds does not refer to the Roman Catholic Church as that did not exist as such at the time. Even the latest of the three common creeds (the 'Athanasian') long pre-dates the Schism.

James

Catholic means 'according to the whole'

That's the way I have taken it, confusing for some though?