The awful Education system of the US

[Subduction Zone]

Sometimes I do wonder how they are teaching our youth these days. About 10 yeas ago my nephew was having math problems and his mother, who was homeschooling, asked me to help him learn. I noticed right away that is work was very neat. And quite often wrong. If he made what he thought was an error he would very neatly erase his work and continue from there. What I did not like about that is I could not see his thinking process to see where he was going wrong. So my first step was to take away his pencil. I explained that mistakes were fine and that I needed to see when, where and how he was going wrong. If he made an error in pen he was just to draw a line through it. That way I could see his thinking process. Eventually got him up to high B low A which was quite a change. I know that in formal work one only presents the final product, but for teaching I wonder if they sometimes over emphasize neatness before it is necessary.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

So it’s been like this running joke for as long as I can remember to lambast the US lower levels of education as inherently flawed. Awful. Lagging.
But I mean is that really accurate?
You Americanstan RFers seem reasonably well educated. (Some questionable sex Ed posts notwithstanding.)
So help me understand what the US education system is really like. What are your experiences? Your issues with curriculum? Your praises? Are some subjects taught better than others?
Is it as jingoistic as some like to claim?

Have at it. Defend or tear to shreds the schooling system of the US.

I grew up in a small town in a fair-sized fsmily. We were not the local wealthy elite, but we were involved in things. My family believed in education. My parents had amassed a large personal library and encouraged us to read as well as regaling us children with family stories and life experiences.

The school system was small with a limited tax base in a predominantly fundamentalist community. I did have the benefit of good teachers and, by a turn of luck, a PhD zoologist teaching high school biology classes. I was fortunate in being in the top 10% of my class also. This cancelled out some of the economic inequality. For me. I think there was effort in educating all, but it did seem like there was less focus on the poorer students. Despite the small town ways and lower budgets, that school produced a dozen or more future engineers, a PhD metallurgist, an entomologist, a pharmaceutical biologist, an architect, a PhD mathematician, a lawyer, several dozens of educators and a physician between 1975 and 1995. This was a school system in a town with a population of 1000 people.

 

[Estro Felino]

A middle way is necessary. Not the easy-goingness of Americans...but neither the strict inflexible Italic system.

 

[Cooky]

I think there was effort in educating all, but it did seem like there was less focus on the poorer students.

Can you offer an example on how there was less focus on poorer students? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Father Heathen]

The reason republicans underfund schools and set low standards is because they wouldn't have a voter base otherwise.

 

[Cooky]

The reason republicans underfund schools and set low standards is because they wouldn't have a voter base otherwise.

Oh, that's funny. IOW, you're saying republicans are undereducated? Uh, no... That's not true actually. In fact, it's the opposite of true.

 

[Father Heathen]

Oh, that's funny. IOW, you're saying republicans are undereducated? Uh, no... That's not true actually.

Why else undermine education and advocate scientific illiteracy?
We're lagging behind the rest of the world and the republicans' proposed "fix" is prayer and voodoo.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Can you offer an example on how there was less focus on poorer students? I'm genuinely curious.

Through grade school classes were together, but in middle school they were grouped based on performance. Perhaps This is normal. I only went through the one system. But it seemed to me that less demand was placed on the lower performing groups and students in more affluent families could get in the higher performing groups for reasons other than merit. I know a few students that were let through on just barely enough. Some of the lower performance may have been due to poor family support or a limited value placed on education. This was a relatively conservative, white, rural community with some stratification. Culturally, it was limited and a lot of graduates never left the area. All of the top 10 students left home after graduation. Only one did not go to college and get a BS and several of us went further than that.

I am using performer as a descriptive for lack of a better term. I know that the group I was in typically had high academic achievement and expectations.

Like I said, maybe it is typical for a small Ozark town. I only have the one experience.

 

[sun rise]

Just because a Christian believes in creation does not mean that they reject true and provable science. That would be ridiculous. After all, the Creator invented what scientists study.

The comment was about YEC but perhaps I was a bit unclear.

This is true.. Perhaps it's a combination of both poverty and upbringing?

To me a big chunk is not honoring teachers and looking for the best and paying them accordingly. There are quite a few stories about how a wonderful teacher or a supremely motivated principle made a real difference. Synopsis of ‘The George McKenna Story’: He risked it all to make the grade | LA School Report discusses a movie made about one principle who really made a difference and the combination of teachers and parents that he inspired.

So let's focus on hiring and training teachers and principles who are above average and paying them decent wages.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Why else undermine education and advocate scientific illiteracy?

I think you mean the very conservative. Not all Republicans are down on education. Of course, the true conservatives don't care for those kind of Republicans much either.

 

[Cooky]

Why else undermine education and advocate scientific illiteracy?

Okay, it's true that anyone who undermines scientific teachings is foolish, but the part I take issue with, is that teachers bear the responsibility in students' learning... I don't think they do that much.

...I strongly believe that the students bear more responsibility than what people claim, although the parents do share in some of that responsibility too in how they raise their children.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Just because a Christian believes in creation does not mean that they reject true and provable science. That would be ridiculous. After all, the Creator invented what scientists study. What can be rejected is theory masquerading as science. No one should accept science fiction as fact.

The other side of that coin is misinterpretation of scripture, insisting on a YEC scenario, when the Bible itself does not teach this. The Bible allows for an ancient Earth, and a slow and deliberate process of creation over an extended period of time. These were not 24 hour "days" and creation did not take place in just 6,000 years.

If science can't prove what they believe happened, then how are they any different to those of us who accept that an Almighty Creator produced it all? Neither has "proof" or substantiated evidence for their position.....that means that we have a choice of "beliefs". An Intelligent Designer makes way more sense to me than an infinite series of accidental coincidences that produced all the lifeforms we see on this planet.

Is life in all its complex forms then just a fluke? Is the position of the earth in the Universe also a fluke? Is the right mixture of gases in our atmosphere a fluke? The rate of the earth's spin and the angle of its axis....? How many beneficial flukes do we need to do the math and see that none of it is accidental or coincidental? It was planned and executed beautifully....we humans just messed it up by thinking that we are way more intelligent than we actually are....

So you redefine science in order to get belief in. That is a problem in education everywhere, but certainly in the US.

Just because you are not uncomfortable with some science doesn't make that true science. Nor does it make what you are uncomfortable with, false science.

I know you have an ongoing campaign to redefine what science is, but I must once again remind you that science is not proven. None of it.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I have had it explained to me many, many times.....explaining it however, doesn't prove any of it.
Without proof, you at best have a 'belief' system, just like I do. Theories are not facts.....but you knew that, right?

The theory of evolution is very good science supported by evidence. That is a fact.

Funny, you don't act as if you understand what belief means.

 

[epronovost]

Oh, that's funny. IOW, you're saying republicans are undereducated? Uh, no... That's not true actually. In fact, it's the opposite of true.

From what I could find, it seems that it used to be that the richer and more educated voted for the Republicans, but since the early 2000's the paradigme have shifted and now, the most highly educated voters vote with a solid majority for the Democrats. In fact the support for academics and intellectual elites to the Democrats has never been higher than in the last election. Some attribute this shift to the Bush presidency and the influence of social conservatism driven by Evangelical fundamentalists in the GOP.

 

[Quagmire]

Exactly what I was thinking. You can actually tell the difference in the way the older RFers' process information as opposed the the younger mindsets.

Idk, IMO we've definitely had some amazingly intelligent and well educated young people here over the years.

Granted, most of those who come immediately to mind were from places other than the U.S.

 

[Heyo]

I have had it explained to me many, many times.....explaining it however, doesn't prove any of it.
Without proof, you at best have a 'belief' system, just like I do. Theories are not facts.....but you knew that, right?

The goal of the education system was that you understand science. You don't, ergo the system failed (you).

 

[Cooky]

The goal of the education system was that you understand science. You don't, ergo the system failed (you).

Exactly. Nobody has to accept anything the education system teaches, which is the crux of the whole thread as far as I'm concerned.

...Americans need to stop looking for the government to be their source for learning, and focus on building a culture of just wanting to learn in the first place.

 

[Heyo]

Oh, that's funny. IOW, you're saying republicans are undereducated? Uh, no... That's not true actually. In fact, it's the opposite of true.

Education was once a conservative value. Teachers of old were usually conservative and taught conservative values.
Times have changed.

 

[Cooky]

Education was once a conservative value. Teachers of old were usually conservative and taught conservative values.
Times have changed.

No values should be taught in public schools. That's the problem conservatives have with modern liberals.

Liberals want government inspired moral indoctrination. Conservatives want students to form their own values by themselves.

...To some, the above conservative stance might reflect a lack of interest. I don't believe that's the case. I think it's just a different perspective on what the duty of the government should be.

 

[Deeje]

The goal of the education system was that you understand science. You don't, ergo the system failed (you).

No, the system failed to indoctrinate me with its assumptions masquerading as factual science. I have been debating evolution for decades. The science is extremely flimsy when you actually study the evidence that they offer to support it. Offering examples of adaptation and then inflating it beyond all testable limits to suggest that amoebas could morph into dinosaurs over millions of years.....is more of a fairy story that what you believe the Bible tells. At least there is some active intelligence behind creation, instead of a series of millions of coincidentally fortunate accidents.....

So please don't get me started....