psychoslice
Veteran Member
I have read both and quite frankly they both are as bad as each other, not much wisdom at all.
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The Bible and The Quran
- Thread starter dgirl1986
- Start date
:yes:
dgirl1986
Big Queer Chesticles!
Are you claiming that the old testament is not relevant at all? If yes, then why is it included in the bible and used in teachings then?
dgirl1986
Big Queer Chesticles!
Some claim it is not revelant as Jesus carried a new message or something along those lines
That doesn't exactly make sense, as what are they exactly referencing when they cite he had a new message, or something?
dgirl1986
Big Queer Chesticles!
I cant remember which book talks about it, but apparently the message from jesus overwrites the previous messages.
nash8
Da man, when I walk thru!
NT Bible isn't really that big on violence, or atleast the central character that the whole Christian tradition revolves around wasn't. OT was a little violent but then again that was a whole different time period and setting, multiple time periods and settings actually.
As far as the Quran there's definitely some violence in there, but it is definitely no better nor worse than the Bible, and is representative of the time and culture in which Muhammad lived in my opinion.
MattersOfTheHeart
Active Member
Sword is used as you know in another place in the NT, talking about how the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Now put a group of people together, and let's make it a bit more intimate and cozy and make that group family. Ahhh, now that's better. Now, let's throw in the mix topics (Jesus's sword) that are so personal and hard to discern in various situations. In no time at all, the cozy family will be at each others throat.
Why? Did Jesus want them being violent with each other? Or, is it possible the true word, cuts so deep to our souls, that it exposes our lusts, our bias, or the very things we won't let go of, even for the sake of truth? Thus, like a sword dividing, cutting, slashing, and all of that jazz.
Oh Jay, silly you are sometimes...
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nash8
Da man, when I walk thru!
What??? the Bible and the Quran are both full of Wisdom, you just have to dig a little deeper to sift through all the doctrinated doodoo that has been added on top of it over the years. I personally look at it as an excerise in wisdom to discern the truth written in both those books versus the dogmatic crap.
Actually, one of the basic tenet's that Paul taught was that Jesus brought a "new covenant" so the old Jewish covenant was not needed anymore. Honestly, I wonder why the OT was used in the Bible, other than to promote that Jesus was the Messiah as prophecized in OT scripture, but it doesn't even do a great job in that in my opinion.
But in summary, yes Christianity doesn't hold the old covenant as relevant so essentially the OT is not really important in modern Christianity.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
There is wisdom in everything, even the news paper, yes I suppose there is some wisdom in the so called bible, but it is full of ignorance also, so in the it cannot be full wisdom, if it was fully wisdom it would have never been put together with a whole bunch of root.
MattersOfTheHeart
Active Member
Take the book of Job.
That book may be overlooked by many. However, there are many religious folk, and I am sure non-religious folk that can identify whole-heatedly with that book.
Life, sometimes will take us to the edge, I mean to a place we will be pushed deep inside where we have never been before perhaps. Thoughts of murder, stealing, suicide, violence, etc... seem viable solutions.
The book of Job, can be viewed as such an account of one man's journey down this road. It allows us a glimpse deep in our own soul, at places hopefully none of us will ever have to journey. It teaches us possible ways to deal with those depths, and also exposes what those around us will likely be like in those times of our lives.
All in all, many things in the OT, offer a look inside the mind of God if you will, which ultimately offer glimpses of ourselves, as we work out our own life and path. The OT, is essential, IMO.
That's your opinion and you know I don't agree. :no: The Bible and the Qur'an are mostly a bunch of rambling nonsense and low-grade myth. Life's too short to be digging for diamonds in hills of crap.
MattersOfTheHeart
Active Member
Sighs... no offense to you at all, really I mean that. This just sounds so pretentious and arrogant.
Example, I can imagine a country folk standing in the hills talking to his buddy:
"Yeeuup, no low-grade myth for me"... "I only mess with that high octane myth, ya feel me partner"
Just messin around man, don't get mad.
Sighs... no offense to you at all, really I mean that. This just sounds so pretentious and arrogant.
Example, I can imagine a country folk standing in the hills talking to his buddy:
"Yeeuup, no low-grade myth for me"... "I only mess with that high octane myth, ya feel me partner"
I always preferred Greco-Roman mythology.
Besides, I see Christians slagging off everyone else's beliefs and calling everyone "sinners", "broken" and rambling on about how we all "need" a "savior", so I don't feel the need to show respect for that. I don't respect Jesus, I don't respect the Bible god and I don't respect the books of their followers. They've done too much damage to humanity.
And that's just how I feel about it.
MattersOfTheHeart
Active Member
Curious, overall are you content with the "grade" (if you don't mind me throwing that word out again for fun) or quality of human relations as you look out into the world? I am wondering about your background, and what lens it gives you as you look at the people and the success and failures of interaction amongst them, and what you feel is lacking, or perhaps nothing is lacking?I always preferred Greco-Roman mythology.
Besides, I see Christians slagging off everyone else's beliefs and calling everyone "sinners", "broken" and rambling on about how we all "need" a "savior", so I don't feel the need to show respect for that. I don't respect Jesus, I don't respect the Bible god and I don't respect the books of their followers. They've done too much damage to humanity.
And that's just how I feel about it.
I think the worst thing is apathy. It just seems that people tend to be oblivious to each other. However, I'm very much a recluse (shut-in, actually) so I don't like being bothered by people, anyway.
MattersOfTheHeart
Active Member
If you don't mind more questions...
So you being a recluse, is that different than the apathy you think is the worst?
Trying to be clear. Apathy is a general lack of interest, but in your case a lack of interest in people or just particular people that bother you?
As you look out into the world, you feel apathy is the worst thing. Can you describe what it might be like if there wasn't this abundance of apathy, and how it would effect the world?
What causes apathy in your opinion?
Has it gotten worse over time, or has it been a plague as far as you can tell pretty much throughout time?
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nash8
Da man, when I walk thru!
Nothing is fully wisdom in my opinion except direct experience which is not found in any book, but only within the mind. Wisdom is the ability to discern truth from falsehood, so I agree that the Bible is not fully Wisdom, but it is one of the greatest tests for determing how wise you actually are in my opinion. Anyone can find wisdom in something that is full of wisdom, but someone truly wise can find widsom within something that is not "fully wisdom" in my opinion.
Not saying that the OT does not contain things that are pertinent to to NT teachings, just saying that the OT was based on one covenant. And Jesus offered a new covenant that made the old covenant irrelevant in "direct bond with God" type of way, according to many Christians.
LOL, I know, but wheres the fun in me just letting you state your opinion.
If I knew there were diamonds in hills of crap that took me as long to sift through as it took me to read the Bible, I'd be knee deep in some crap right about now.
Like I said earlier, anyone can find wisdom where wisdom is everywhere, but someone truly wise can discern truth where it is not blatantly obvious in my opinion.I love Greco_Roman mythology. By far my favorite.
I wouldn't judge Jesus by what you view of Christians, the atonement theory of salvation/crucifixion most likely did not come into play until wwwwaaayyyy after Jesus death. AKA, Jesus most likely did not teach that him dying on the cross would "save you". I would argue that his doctrine would be more closely related to self impowerment than anything else, you should be able to respect that coming from the LHP.
I don't think Christian's can be considered apathetic lol. If anything I would say they are the opposite. Indifference is a great thing in my opinion, as long as it's directed in the right way. Being indifferent to other's negativity towards you is great, being indifferent to your own greatness is not such a good thing in my opinion.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
nash8 ; Nothing is fully wisdom in my opinion except direct experience which is not found in any book, but only within the mind. Wisdom is the ability to discern truth from falsehood, so I agree that the Bible is not fully Wisdom, but it is one of the greatest tests for determing how wise you actually are in my opinion. Anyone can find wisdom in something that is full of wisdom, but someone truly wise can find widsom within something that is not "fully wisdom" in my opinion.
Na, we are conditioned by the bible, but really its just another book.
Na, we are conditioned by the bible, but really its just another book.
But you originally were saying there are Christians that reject the NT. I questioned that. If they are using Jesus' words they are probably using the NT (or some of the extrabiblical early Christian texts, such as Thomas). It would be a self-defeating loop to uses Jesus' words to negate Jesus' words. Like the paradox, "I am lying now". Am I speaking the truth and that is a lie, or am I lying about lying, which is a lie, and so on.
I largely agree with this. They will cite various portraits of God from the OT that fit their image of God in the NT, but that's about it. Personally, I feel it would benefit them to also cite references to the Vedas and Upanishads, but I think that would be a bit of a challenge for most Christians to deal with, since they've been programmed to think only their tradition has any insights into God, and the rest of the world's religions' teachings are just primitive blunderings about in the dark.
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