The Bible totally perfect...right?

[Arrow]

1Pe 1:12 "To whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto you, did they minister these things, which now have been announced unto you through them that preached the gospel unto you by the Holy Spirit sent forth from heaven; which things angel desire to look into."

But does spiritually inspired mean perfection?

 

[Arrow]

Can the Bible really remain unchanged since it was first formed?

 

[Fluffy]

The Bible has not remained unchanged since it was first formed. The Roman Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant denonminations use different formats (ie different make up of books) as well as different translations.

Protestant Bibles contained certain deutrocanonical books until the 1820s.
Roman Catholics recognise seven deutrocanonical books (Tobit, Judith, 1 Maccabees, 2 Maccabees, Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus, and Baruch) to be part of the Bible
Some Orthodox Churchs include 3 Maccabees, Psalm 151, 1 Esdras, Odes, Psalms of Solomon, and occasionally 4 Maccabees.

This means that most Protestant divisions have a Bible containing 39 OT books whilst Roman Catholics have an OT of 46 books.

The NT of 27 generally remains fixed, however.

All information taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible#The_Old_Testament
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuterocanonical_books

 

[Arben]

I am grateful that the Bible has changed with the times. I'm talking about modern translations that make it easier for us to understand. The KJV never really spoke to me, but I love the NIV.

I'm just glad to enjoy it again. Back when I thought of myself as a Christian Wiccan I didn't have much use for it. I finally came to the conclusion that I was just a backslidden Christian that needed to confess my sins and get right with God. Please don't think I'm trying to judge or condemn you, Fluffy, but God does not approve of witchcraft in any form. God bless.

 

[sojourner]

1Pe 1:12 "To whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto you, did they minister these things, which now have been announced unto you through them that preached the gospel unto you by the Holy Spirit sent forth from heaven; which things angel desire to look into."

But does spiritually inspired mean perfection?

No. It's a human document. Therefore, it's as fallible as the humans that wrote it.

Can the Bible really remain unchanged since it was first formed?

No. It's a human document. Therefore, it has changed as humanity has changed.

 

[James the Persian]

Some Orthodox Churchs include 3 Maccabees, Psalm 151, 1 Esdras, Odes, Psalms of Solomon, and occasionally 4 Maccabees.

The Orthodox Church (the local churches are not separate churches at all) all have the same canon. You are correct that it is longer than the RC one because we use the entire Septuagint. 4 Maccabees, along with the Prayer of Manessah, are always in the canon, usually as an appendix. You can find a grid showing the different OT canons here:

http://www.geocities.com/trvalentine/orthodox/otbooks.html

One local church in the Oriental Orthodox communion (that is a seperate church), the Ethiopian, has a different OT canon to the rest (the others use the same one we do) and in addition they have a broad canon which includes extra NT books.

James

 

[Elvendon]

I believe that the Bible contains within it all the guidance needed for salvation. However, the answer is not always obvious or explicit. The Bible is a teacher, not a textbook.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

But does spiritually inspired mean perfection?

In Christian theology, there is only room for one perfect one: God. God can't be mediated through any media perfectly except God: Jesus Christ, the Word of God.

The Bible records - hopefully as it claims - the words of God, which are not God Godself. If the Bible were perfect, it would be God and worthy of worship.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Can the Bible really remain unchanged since it was first formed?

We have proof that it was changed. If you PM me your email address, I can send you a picture of ancient papyrus copies of the Bible that have words scratched out and replaced with other words and sentences.

 

[MM21]

I believe that the Bible contains within it all the guidance needed for salvation. However, the answer is not always obvious or explicit. The Bible is a teacher, not a textbook.

I disagree...The Bible can be looked at as both. A textbook, that teaches an individual how to attain salvation, and live a life worth living. Because after all...it is a history book.

 

[sojourner]

I disagree...The Bible can be looked at as both. A textbook, that teaches an individual how to attain salvation, and live a life worth living. Because after all...it is a history book.

It is a book that contains history, but it is not a history book per se. A history textbook teaches objective fact. The Bible reveals subjective truth.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

A history textbook teaches objective fact.

:no:

As long as histories are written by human beings, they will be subjective. The recording of history is an art, not a science.

 

[MM21]

It is a book that contains history, but it is not a history book per se. A history textbook teaches objective fact. The Bible reveals subjective truth.

Yea, I agree, but most would sum it up to say it is a history book, although it is much more than a mere book.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

:no:

As long as histories are written by human beings, they will be subjective. The recording of history is an art, not a science.

Well stated and I concur! I am reminded of the age old expression "History is written by the victors."

btw...I have not heard anyone claim the Bible to be 'perfect'. I know many people who believe the books' authors to have been inspired by God.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

btw...I have not heard anyone claim the Bible to be 'perfect'.[/quote]

That claim is the hallmark of American fundamentalist Protestantism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_inerrancy#The_Conservative_Protestant_position

 

[Elvendon]

I disagree...The Bible can be looked at as both. A textbook, that teaches an individual how to attain salvation, and live a life worth living. Because after all...it is a history book.

I can't agree with you... the Bible is a history book, but it is like the heroic narratives of Greek or Roman literature, or the oral histories of many peoples around the world or the later hagiographies of the saints. The Bible isn't meant to give us a detailed history or legal guidance - it is meant to illustrate profound spiritual, ethical or theological truths using the example of past events and people.

I think we should never lift quotes and laws from the Bible as though it was some dry and dusty book on East Anglian bylaws from 2004 to 2005 - it is to me the living and vibrant word of our Lord and so it should be considered as though Jesus were speaking to us. Therefore, we should use a measurement of common sense and meditation to discern the true, hidden meaning of scripture and the motivations behind the old laws.

 

[sojourner]

:no:

As long as histories are written by human beings, they will be subjective. The recording of history is an art, not a science.

Refer to Niebuhr's idea of "internal" and "external" history. History textbooks attempt (notice, I said "attempt." No textbook is perfect.) to relate "external" history -- fact only. The Bible attempts to relate the "internal" history of God's search for God's people -- the geschichte, if you will.

 

[MM21]

Therefore, we should use a measurement of common sense and meditation to discern the true, hidden meaning of scripture and the motivations behind the old laws.

Exactly that is where I say it should/could be looked at as a textbook. In a sesne of textbook, it ought to be studied. Right? Into what it actually is saying, so that we don't take things out of context, misinterpret..etc. Ex. This girl was smoking a cigar when we went to Applebee's outside of the resteraunt last week. My friend said "see, if she knew the Bible, she would know that 'her body is a temple' so she wouldn't smoke." I looked at him crazy, and said. 1) Don't judge 2) That's out of context. It's imperative to study that book, therefore I use the term textbook.

 

[Scuba Pete]

The Bible never claims to be inerrant or perfect. That contention is merely a product of man's pride.

1Pe 1:12 "To whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto you, did they minister these things, which now have been announced unto you through them that preached the gospel unto you by the Holy Spirit sent forth from heaven; which things angel desire to look into."

But does spiritually inspired mean perfection?

 

[MM21]

1Pe 1:12 "To whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto you, did they minister these things, which now have been announced unto you through them that preached the gospel unto you by the Holy Spirit sent forth from heaven; which things angel desire to look into."

But does spiritually inspired mean perfection?

I might be the only one to agree that inspired does mean perfection. Reasons- 1) We all agree "All scripture is God-breathed" (2 Tim 3:16) 2) The Greek word in this passage "theopneustos" does not mean "inspired of God" Rather God-breathed, as a product of the creative breath of God. Ex. God breathed life into Adam (Gen 1:7) the breath of life. In correlation, He be breathed into the body of Scripture the breath of His life. 3) We are having a problem by assuming illumination and inspiration mean the same thing. Where in inspiration the Holy Spirit directed and influenced the writers so that, by "inspiration" it kept from erros of fact and doctrine. Illumination refers to the influence of the Holy Spirit, common to all Christians, which helps them grasp the things of God. 1 Cor. 2:14- talks about spritiaully discerning. In which that can be described as illumination.

Then again, not all people agree on what inspiration truly means...

Info above from..Pentacotal Theology book, by Guy. P. Duffield and N.M. Van Cleave