The Catholic Church should be shut down

[Flame]

How can that be?

For some reason, people still think that the Church is still the First Estate and above the law.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The innocents can start a new church where they don't abuse children, systematically protect the abusers and cover up their crimes.

So you're essentially saying that the Church is above the law? How can that be?

How is going to mass helping the church cover-up crimes (current ones?)?

Who do you think the church is based on to where and reasons Catholics go to X church that they can't get from another?

 

[SkepticThinker]

How is going to mass helping the church cover-up crimes (current ones?)?

I don't think I said that it was. But, I would say attending services is a show of support. Donating money to the Church would also be a show of support.

Who do you think the church is based on to where and reasons Catholics go to X church that they can't get from another?

I'm sorry I don't understand the question, as written.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't think I said that it was. But, I would say attending services is a show of support. Donating money to the Church would also be a show of support.


I'm sorry I don't understand the question, as written.

I can see donating money. Going to mass, no. That's like accusing christ for supporting child abusers.

 

[pearl]

Can you clarify what you mean by your first line?

The 'People of God' the community of believers with Christ its head is greater than those who govern the institution.
Sexual child abuse has been around probably from the beginning and crosses all walks of life. I have heard that in Jesus time any male Jew who was not married by the age of 25 was not to be around young children and that's why the apostles try to refrain children from approaching Jesus, who states, 'let the little ones come to me'.
The Roman Curia is a powerful group and its going take a strong pope to tackle it.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I can see donating money. Going to mass, no.

You don't think attending mass is a show of support for the organization? Why not?

That's like accusing christ for supporting child abusers.

How so?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Since the Christ is the head of the church, whatever Catholics do for the church theyvare doing for the people and brothers and sisters of Christ. Everything in the church is wrapped around ones worship to Christ.

So, when a Catholic gives money they are helping people keep their homes, have food, clothing, witness, take care of monastary residences, pay for the sacraments, and keep the church clean etc.

So, it would be odd that all Catholics don't go to mass nor pay tithes because they rather have revenge or so have you of the church higher ups rather than than making sure people have roofs over their heads and food.

But, Christ is the head of the church not the Pope nor the priests. Whatever one does for the church, in Catholicism, one does for Christ.

My question is how does church cover-ups relate to possible priest child abuse?

That and how do you all know that future priests are at risk of abuse other children?

If someone had a background or child abuse, I can see the risk but a priest who has no criminal background?

What's the connection?

 

[oldbadger]

Invasions have happened over less. The abuse being discussed is a systemic occurrence of child abuse, a culture of covering it up, a blatant refusal to cooperate with authorities, refusal to communicate knowledge of child abuse with authorities, and they further their crimes by harboring fugitives.

Well, you could campaign for the invasion of the Vatican on the basis that 1% of the priests have been bad, I suppose.

Good Luck with that.....

 

[oldbadger]

If the leaders of any of those organizations are/were found to be involved in the systematic cover-up of mass sexual abuse against children, then they should be shut down. Which seems to be what happens in most instances, except with the Church. Why is that?

Wow! Looks as if you think that a large % of the RCC priests were doing all this?

But there are about 414,000 priests in the RCC, and about 4000 bad uns, which will leave about 410,000 innocents to be judged and condemned as well.......

Good Luck with that.......

 

[oldbadger]

Yea, apathy and people defending child abusers isn’t helping.
.........................

But it is helping to provide some defence for the 410,000 priests and billion RCC followers who were innocent.

Nobody here imo is defending criminals, we're just worried for the honest and decent priests and followers of the RCC..... and we have no agenda, 'cos we ain't Catholics!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But it is helping to provide some defence for the 410,000 priests and billion RCC followers who were innocent.
Nobody here imo is defending criminals, we're just worried for the honest and decent priests and followers of the RCC..... and we have no agenda, 'cos we ain't Catholics!

But you are defending the criminals; that's precisely what you're doing.

If every victim got a typical award of damages, the Catholic Church would be bankrupted. By arguing that the Church should keep on going, you're arguing that it should have the money to keep on going... money that can't go to the victims.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

The best way to help the 410,000 innocent priests is to DEMAND that the bad ones be punished. Completely removed from the church not just moved around. Even sent to jail. And the best way to demand this is to hit them in the pocketbook. Stop going to church for one week and give no money for one week. If several million people all did this at the same time there would be such a rush to solve the problem you would not believe it. But the church scares people into thinking that it is wrong to protest and they must go to church every week and give money every week. Just get their attention by not doing it for one week and see what happens.

 

[oldbadger]

But you are defending the criminals; that's precisely what you're doing.

If every victim got a typical award of damages, the Catholic Church would be bankrupted. By arguing that the Church should keep on going, you're arguing that it should have the money to keep on going... money that can't go to the victims.

But no...... we are not......!
Innocent people deserve a defence!
It's rather like closing down a huge company and throwing thousands of employees out of work after a few directors have committed crimes......... Justice needs to be more 'scalpel' than 'sledgehammer.

But after discussing this subject tonight with Mrs Badger who has no interest for religion at all, her response was.....

If you want to shut down the Catholics because of 1% of its priests then you can shut down the World..... because I'll bet 1% of the World has been committing such crimes, its just that people haven't bothered to look for them all yet. And tell 'em to turn out the lights when they're finished.

Mrs Badger....... ain't she something else...?

 

[metis]

The innocents can start a new church where they don't abuse children, systematically protect the abusers and cover up their crimes.

Still unconstutional because it violates both the freedom of religion guaranteed by the 1st Amendment and the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th. It's also punishes the innocent.

So you're essentially saying that the Church is above the law? How can that be?

I have never said that and have numerous posts to confirm that I don't believe as such. On another similar thread, I put forth a seven-point plan of what I'd like to see happen with how I think the Church should handle this as well as the civil authorities.

 

[metis]

The best way to help the 410,000 innocent priests is to DEMAND that the bad ones be punished. Completely removed from the church not just moved around. Even sent to jail. And the best way to demand this is to hit them in the pocketbook. Stop going to church for one week and give no money for one week. If several million people all did this at the same time there would be such a rush to solve the problem you would not believe it. But the church scares people into thinking that it is wrong to protest and they must go to church every week and give money every week. Just get their attention by not doing it for one week and see what happens.

The Church has already been taking actions and the number of incidents over the last decade is much lower than in all previous decades since WWII.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well, you could campaign for the invasion of the Vatican on the basis that 1% of the priests have been bad, I suppose.

People won't even take the idea of arresting the Pope seriously, as some thought should have happened to Benedict. They can let the few guilty be guilty, or them and very many more can be guilty for crimes related to assisting criminals and criminal activity. It's time the Vatican and it's priests, bishops, cardinals, and everybody else be held equally accountable under the law.

 

[Deidre]

But it is helping to provide some defence for the 410,000 priests and billion RCC followers who were innocent.

Nobody here imo is defending criminals, we're just worried for the honest and decent priests and followers of the RCC..... and we have no agenda, 'cos we ain't Catholics!

Agree there are amazing priests, I’ve known them and it’s unfortunate they are caught in all of this. :/

 

[Unveiled Artist]

But no...... we are not......!
Innocent people deserve a defence!
It's rather like closing down a huge company and throwing thousands of employees out of work after a few directors have committed crimes......... Justice needs to be more 'scalpel' than 'sledgehammer.

But after discussing this subject tonight with Mrs Badger who has no interest for religion at all, her response was.....

If you want to shut down the Catholics because of 1% of its priests then you can shut down the World..... because I'll bet 1% of the World has been committing such crimes, its just that people haven't bothered to look for them all yet. And tell 'em to turn out the lights when they're finished.

Mrs Badger....... ain't she something else...?

Haha. Nice.

Nice.

 

[oldbadger]

People won't even take the idea of arresting the Pope seriously, as some thought should have happened to Benedict. They can let the few guilty be guilty, or them and very many more can be guilty for crimes related to assisting criminals and criminal activity. It's time the Vatican and it's priests, bishops, cardinals, and everybody else be held equally accountable under the law.

What law? Your Law?
That's like stuffing a wife and children in prisons because they ate food brought with a husband's burglary proceeds.

Some Law.

 

[oldbadger]

Agree there are amazing priests, I’ve known them and it’s unfortunate they are caught in all of this. :/

Absolutely!
How horrified and despondent the righteous priests and followers must be about all this. How swindled, deceived and cheated they must feel.
How dreadful for them.