The concept of superstition

[Polymath257]

Why?

Why is the burden of proof on the one making the positive existence claim? Because it is far too easy to make wild claims that can neither be proved nor disproved. I may claim there are invisible elves in my kitchen. That doesn't mean I should be taken seriously unless you can *prove* there are none. The burden is on *me* to show they exist, not on your to show they do not.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

paarsurrey said: ↑
"Looked from the point of view of an atheist, even atheist who swears there is no Godhas superstitions on some level."

Isn't "there is no God" also a superstition, please?


The Atheism people have no positive facts to prove that "there is no God".
Do they, please?
Regards

Atheists don't and that is the perennial battle. The arguments of disproving God is dialectical. I can say althanian microbes don't exist because 1) I just made that up and 2) There is no argument to prove or disprove althanian microbes exist/does not exist. The thing is the argument for the atheist's disapproval of God's existence is limited to philosophical debate, not the real world.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

superstition - Excessively credulous belief in and reverence for the supernatural.

That seem to cover belief in god(s) as far as I can see...

I didn't ask for the definition. I asked how a belief in God is superstitious its not that hard.

 

[ratiocinator]

Why?

Sanity.

 

[Polymath257]

Atheists don't and that is the perennial battle. The arguments of disproving God is dialectical. I can say althanian microbes don't exist because 1) I just made that up and 2) There is no argument to prove or disprove althanian microbes exist/does not exist. The thing is the argument for the atheist's disapproval of God's existence is limited to philosophical debate, not the real world.

Hmm...I see it as exactly the opposite. It isn't a matter of 'disapproval of God's existence', it is that there is no credible evidence showing such an unlikely being actually exists. It is *all* about the real world and NOT about philosophy, per se.

 

[Polymath257]

I didn't ask for the definition. I asked how a belief in God is superstitious its not that hard.

Look at the definition. Is belief in a God 'extremely credulous belief in and reverence for a supernatural'? I'd say it is. Therefore it is superstitious.

 

[ratiocinator]

I asked how a belief in God is superstitious its not that hard.

As I already said: the definition seems to cover belief in god(s). It isn't hard; belief in god(s) are, as far as I can see, excessively credulous beliefs in and reverence for the supernatural (god(s)).

 

[Epic Beard Man]

First of all, I do NOT deny your experience. I *do* deny that you have properly interpreted that experience. The depth and perceived 'meaningfulness' of an experience does NOT mean your interpretation of it is valid. Many people have quite conflicting religious experiences. They cannot all be correct if they are to relate to something outside of the minds of those who experience them. I have also had 'religious experiences', but I acknowledge that they were not reliable sources of information.

But a "religious experience" is different from a metaphysical one. True, we all cannot be right and I concede that religious believers can in fact conjure up metaphysical experiences because of some unconscious desire to want to have a spiritual experience because of the internal want for the believability of said religion. However what of the spiritual experiences of those of similar situation where manipulation of mind was not involved nor was religion a factor?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I'd say it is.

That is an opinion not a fact. I also find supporting the Philadelphia eagles as extremely credulous in the sense that one believes they are the best team of all time in the NFL.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

As I already said: the definition seems to cover belief in god(s). It isn't hard; belief in god(s) are, as far as I can see, excessively credulous beliefs in and reverence for the supernatural (god(s)).

See post #29

 

[Polymath257]

But a "religious experience" is different from a metaphysical one. True, we all cannot be right and I concede that religious believers can in fact conjure up metaphysical experiences because of some unconscious desire to want to have a spiritual experience because of the internal want for the believability of said religion. However what of the spiritual experiences of those of similar situation where manipulation of mind was not involved nor was religion a factor?

Well, I have no idea what a 'metaphysical experience' would even consist of.

Look at William James' 'Varieties of Religious Experiences' for a decent, although outdated exploration of the types and circumstances in which people have such experiences. It is a fascinating book. I'd actually like to see a sequel that includes our modern knowledge of how the brain works.

 

[viole]

In Islam all superstitions are strictly forbitten.

Logically impossible. That would be self defeating.

Ciao

- viole

 

[gnostic]

Why a ritual? A superstition doesn't need to show in a ritual.

It doesn’t have to, but often it is, especially when it associates with the supernatural, eg gods, spirits, believing in good and lucks.

For instance, I see Muslims praying 5 times as rituals. This ritual also based on getting the good side of the invisible god, eg rewards for piety or the promise of reward like afterlife in Paradise, hence superstition.

Another example. I see baptism as ritual of conversion as well as ritual cleansing of soul, to be superstition, which is common practices among Christians.

Seriously, can baptism really cancel all past sins?

 

[Polymath257]

That is an opinion not a fact. I also find supporting the Philadelphia eagles as extremely credulous in the sense that one believes they are the best team of all time in the NFL.

Irrelevant. Such is not a belief about the supernatural. Can you give *any* belief in the supernatural that isn't 'extremely credulous'?

 

[Remté]

Why is the burden of proof on the one making the positive existence claim? Because it is far too easy to make wild claims that can neither be proved nor disproved. I may claim there are invisible elves in my kitchen. That doesn't mean I should be taken seriously unless you can *prove* there are none. The burden is on *me* to show they exist, not on your to show they do not.

I don't lay any burden on you. So what, you think one deserves to be punished for having an opinion different from yours by getting an extra burden "of proof"?

 

[viole]

I love the arrogance of atheists.....

It is almost you denying my experiences as if what I experience even if I'm alert and oriented is somehow still a delusion. So what I want to know that since I'm neither on drugs, with a college background strong sense of the mind I want you to prove that my experience of God is deluded. I want to know what I experienced as a small child metaphysically was delusional and synonymous with Santa Claus?

My Hindu friend had similar spiritual experiences with 3 different gods. He swears on that.

Do you beleive him?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Well, I have no idea what a 'metaphysical experience' would even consist of.

Look at William James' 'Varieties of Religious Experiences' for a decent, although outdated exploration of the types and circumstances in which people have such experiences. It is a fascinating book. I'd actually like to see a sequel that includes our modern knowledge of how the brain works.

I'd be interested in reading that book!

when I refer to metaphysical experience I'm merely referring to the transcendence of the self, the experiences of the soul or what not. Some call this a spiritual experience such as one who dies and floats out of their bodies most commonly referred as Near Death Experiences. Some have overwhelming ineffable feelings that are beyond this world. Things of that nature.

 

[Polymath257]

I don't lay any burden on you. So what, you think one deserves to be punished for having an opinion different from yours by getting an extra burden "of proof"?

It's not a punishment. It is taking responsibility for your own belief system. If you want other people to take it seriously, you have to provide evidence for it. If you don't care if others take it seriously, then there is nothing else to say.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

My Hindu friend had similar spiritual experiences with 3 different gods. He swears on that.

Do you beleive him?

Ciao

- viole

Sure. In my own personal belief God can appear to any human or creature in this universe as anything for the comfort of their mind. I suppose it would be cruel in the sense for God to appear like a Xenomorph considering Xenomorphs are not common in Hindu beliefs. BTW this is a xenomorph:

 

[Polymath257]

I'd be interested in reading that book!

when I refer to metaphysical experience I'm merely referring to the transcendence of the self, the experiences of the soul or what not. Some call this a spiritual experience such as one who dies and floats out of their bodies most commonly referred as Near Death Experiences. Some have overwhelming ineffable feelings that are beyond this world. Things of that nature.

Did you know that we can artificially induce such OOBE in the lab? They tend to happen when the signals between different parts of the brain get out of sync.

But yes, it is a wonderful boot hough about a century old.

 

[viole]

I don't lay any burden on you. So what, you think one deserves to be punished for having an opinion different from yours by getting an extra burden "of proof"?

Cool, i thought I needed to somehow justify my belief that the world has been created by Bob, the invisible giant turtle engaged with Mickey Mouse.

Ciao

- viole