The Creationist's Argument and its Greatest Weakness

[BilliardsBall]

In this Country it was determined by SCOTUS using past religious and secular doctrine.

In your Theocracy it can be anything you want it to be.

What I want it to be is the Bible's perspective, conception, new life, new soul. Thanks.

 

[BilliardsBall]

How does having the Ten Commandments posted on public buildings help atheists? Do you think we should base or morals on the words of a genocidal god?
How does having the Ten Commandments posted on public buildings help the Country as a whole. Isn't Thou shalt have no other gods before me offensive to people of other religions?




I hope you never travel to an Islamic country and get arrested and put on trial. I'm sure you'd feel very uncomfortable standing before a judge behind whom is large "In Allah we Trust".

Who knows, with all this desire for religious liberty expressed by Christians like you, perhaps in the near future Detroit will allow Sharia courtrooms. I guess you wouldn't want to go to Detroit then either, would you.

WAIT! HOLD ON?! CHRISTIANITY IS OFFENSIVE TO ADHERENTS OF OTHER RELIGIONS AND ATHEISTS?! I GOTTA QUIT THIS FAITH!!! (Not.)

From 1 Cor: For the word of the cross is offensive to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 

[BilliardsBall]

After it is born.

"An infant (from the Latin word infans, meaning "unable to speak" or "speechless") is the more formal or specialised synonym for "baby", the very young offspring of a human. The term may also be used to refer to juveniles of other organisms."
Source: Wikipedia​

.

Then you would be okay with an abortion for a woman in the 8th or 9th month of pregnancy?!

 

[Darkstorn]

WAIT! HOLD ON?! CHRISTIANITY IS OFFENSIVE TO ADHERENTS OF OTHER RELIGIONS AND ATHEISTS?! I GOTTA QUIT THIS FAITH!!! (Not.)

From 1 Cor: For the word of the cross is offensive to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

How can you miss the point so hard? You literally proved his point there.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Then why take a chance? Why take a chance on killing a child?

I am both pro-life and anti-abortion.

You have demonstrated that you are only anti abortion. And why ban someone from doing something that you cannot prove to be harmful at great harm to others? I will not impose my will on others in this case.

 

[Subduction Zone]

LOL. Someone should have told the framers and all the ones who built so many buildings with scriptures and biblical sculptures and friezes and . . . poppycock!

They did not do so. Those came later, but I am glad that you admitted that they are poppycock. There is hope for you yet.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I didn't sugar coat, I contrasted just servitude/slavery with unjust. The Bible says the wicked will bow before and serve the righteous in the coming Kingdom. Does that help?

You sugarcoated it by calling it something else. The owning of another person as property is not indentured servitude - it is slavery.

Also, you ignore the bits about it being okay to beat them within inches of their life, as long as they don't die within a couple of days.

Do you think its moral for people to people to have sex publicly, where children can see them? You like the concept of laws about public sexual display, possibly prostitution/pornography also, but you find that when God says certain sins lead to death, you don't like that as much. That's your prerogative. I see the capital laws in the Bible as demonstrative, alluding to Hell.

I don't think it's moral for people to have sex in public where anybody can see. But I also don’t think it’s moral to have people KILLED for doing so. And that’s not what people participating in a gay pride parade are doing so I don't know why you went there.

I have no problem if people want to watch pornography - that's their choice. I also don't have much of a problem with prostitution, if all parties to it are consenting adults.

I understand your point about Lev 20:13, but the Bible forbids things like breaking and entering your neighbor's home to catch them in homosexuality or adultery. Behind closed doors is one's own business.

Is breaking and entering the only way to “catch them in homosexuality or adultery?”
I don’t think so. There are some people who may consider a public kiss between two people as some kind of “homosexual act.” The bottom line is, the Bible says its moral to kill two people engaging in homosexual acts (or whatever you want to call it). And I have someone telling me that the pronouncements within the Bible are moral ones – the most moral of all, in fact. I have yet to understand what is moral about killing people for being gay. And rather than stating that it is immoral to kill people for being caught in the act of homosexuality, you’re trying to water it down, like you did with slavery. I suspect that’s because you know deep down that slavery and killing people for being gay are immoral actions and yet you have to justify it because it appears in your holy book.

When did you come to understand that there are no conservative atheists regarding sexual morals and mores?

I haven’t come to understand that. I’m not sure where you think I said something like that.

I mean, I'd LIKE to believe all atheists are also liberals, but you are not. Did you know a great many gays were opposed to gay marriage, by the way?

How many is a “great many?”

Stop painting all Christians as persecutors, while you're at it. I voted against certain sex-related proposals at the polls. I've never persecuted anyone for being gay or atheist, quite the contrary, actually.

I didn’t say all Christians are persecutors and never intended to, because I know they are not. I was referring to the Christians that have/do persecute gay people. If you’re not one of them, that’s great. Now if we could only get you to admit that pronouncements about killing gay people are immoral.

No, gays usually don't have sex on parade. But apart from a parade, I had to explain some sexual facts to my children years before I'd intended when two gays were demonstrative in front of my children. Prior, they'd seen only heterosexuals doing certain things.

So what’s the big deal? Now they know that gay people exist. And they do exist, so what’s the problem?

Were you that put out when you had to explain what heterosexual people were doing kissing or holding hands or whatever they were doing?

My cousin and her wife are gay and have a child that plays with my niece and nephew quite often. Should my sister be upset if she has to explain to her kids that their cousin has 2 moms and blame my cousin and her wife for being so openly gay (aka just going about their lives)? Maybe they should just stay in the house so you don’t have to be uncomfortable. Or we could just realize it’s no big deal, that our kids are inevitably going to meet gay people out in the world at some point, and just get on with our lives.

The Bible has no problem with closeted behavior for gays AND straights when children are in the balance. Severe penalties await those who harm and corrupt children.

What’s God waiting for? There are a few hundred Catholic priests in Pennsylvania that need dealing with. Does God only until we’re dead to punish us?


This quote from Tracy Harris comes to mind:

“You either have a God who sends child rapists to rape children or you have a God who simply watches it and says, ‘When you’re done, I’m going to punish you.’If I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That’s the difference between me and your God.”
WATCH: Atheist TV Host Shocked By Caller's Statement About Child Rape

I encourage you to advocate and stand up for children, not just libertine sexual behavior.

Don’t worry, I do advocate and stand up for children on a daily basis. I just don’t think they’re being harmed by being exposed to other people in the world with whom they co-exist.

I’m not the one supporting immorality here. And no where have I supported "libertine sexual behavior."

 

[Skwim]

Then you would be okay with an abortion for a woman in the 8th or 9th month of pregnancy?!

I don't think I would. In fact---although I'm not certain---I believe elective abortions are prohibited at that stage.

.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Then you would be okay with an abortion for a woman in the 8th or 9th month of pregnancy?!

The Bible seems to have no limits on it. You are aware that a priest could perform chemical abortions, aren't you?

 

[ecco]

In this Country it was determined by SCOTUS using past religious and secular doctrine.

In your Theocracy it can be anything you want it to be.

What I want it to be is the Bible's perspective, conception, new life, new soul. Thanks.

As I said...In your Theocracy it can be anything you want it to be.

I would not want to live in your theocracy or anyone else's theocracy. Perhaps you would want to live in a current theocracy.

Aside from Vatican City, there are no Christian theocracies. I wonder why that is.

 

[ecco]

ecco previously

Isn't Thou shalt have no other gods before me offensive to people of other religions?​

WAIT! HOLD ON?! CHRISTIANITY IS OFFENSIVE TO ADHERENTS OF OTHER RELIGIONS AND ATHEISTS?! I GOTTA QUIT THIS FAITH!!! (Not.)

From 1 Cor: For the word of the cross is offensive to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

You just verified, with a quote from your bible, that Christianity is offensive to non-Christians.

 

[Audie]

What I want it to be is the Bible's perspective, conception, new life, new soul. Thanks.

That is kind of sad.

 

[BilliardsBall]

How can you miss the point so hard? You literally proved his point there.

I was being ironic. I fully realize the gospel is offensive to "good people who don't need salvation".

 

[BilliardsBall]

You sugarcoated it by calling it something else. The owning of another person as property is not indentured servitude - it is slavery.

Also, you ignore the bits about it being okay to beat them within inches of their life, as long as they don't die within a couple of days.



I don't think it's moral for people to have sex in public where anybody can see. But I also don’t think it’s moral to have people KILLED for doing so. And that’s not what people participating in a gay pride parade are doing so I don't know why you went there.

I have no problem if people want to watch pornography - that's their choice. I also don't have much of a problem with prostitution, if all parties to it are consenting adults.



Is breaking and entering the only way to “catch them in homosexuality or adultery?”
I don’t think so. There are some people who may consider a public kiss between two people as some kind of “homosexual act.” The bottom line is, the Bible says its moral to kill two people engaging in homosexual acts (or whatever you want to call it). And I have someone telling me that the pronouncements within the Bible are moral ones – the most moral of all, in fact. I have yet to understand what is moral about killing people for being gay. And rather than stating that it is immoral to kill people for being caught in the act of homosexuality, you’re trying to water it down, like you did with slavery. I suspect that’s because you know deep down that slavery and killing people for being gay are immoral actions and yet you have to justify it because it appears in your holy book.



I haven’t come to understand that. I’m not sure where you think I said something like that.



How many is a “great many?”



I didn’t say all Christians are persecutors and never intended to, because I know they are not. I was referring to the Christians that have/do persecute gay people. If you’re not one of them, that’s great. Now if we could only get you to admit that pronouncements about killing gay people are immoral.



So what’s the big deal? Now they know that gay people exist. And they do exist, so what’s the problem?

Were you that put out when you had to explain what heterosexual people were doing kissing or holding hands or whatever they were doing?

My cousin and her wife are gay and have a child that plays with my niece and nephew quite often. Should my sister be upset if she has to explain to her kids that their cousin has 2 moms and blame my cousin and her wife for being so openly gay (aka just going about their lives)? Maybe they should just stay in the house so you don’t have to be uncomfortable. Or we could just realize it’s no big deal, that our kids are inevitably going to meet gay people out in the world at some point, and just get on with our lives.



What’s God waiting for? There are a few hundred Catholic priests in Pennsylvania that need dealing with. Does God only until we’re dead to punish us?


This quote from Tracy Harris comes to mind:

“You either have a God who sends child rapists to rape children or you have a God who simply watches it and says, ‘When you’re done, I’m going to punish you.’If I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That’s the difference between me and your God.”
WATCH: Atheist TV Host Shocked By Caller's Statement About Child Rape


Don’t worry, I do advocate and stand up for children on a daily basis. I just don’t think they’re being harmed by being exposed to other people in the world with whom they co-exist.

I’m not the one supporting immorality here. And no where have I supported "libertine sexual behavior."

Indentured servitude is not semantic or sugar coating it, but factual, I can direct you to more resources if you want to see for yourself.

I don't ignore the "beat your slave" portion. I see simple logic--you are focusing on the property bit, which is there, not the crime. If I hit you and you get a black eye, I don't get the death penalty! The servant could strike the master and also not get the death penalty, but is left off the verse because the one people group in the Bible with the most possible capital punishments was slave owners! Serious laws at work here.

Paul tells brother to greet one another with holy kisses. The Bible says "lie with a man as one does with a woman" so we're talking sodomy of some kind, in public, for a people who had just walked through the sea and seen the Egyptians destroyed. The spirit of stupid could get one killed back then, just like now!

My concern isn't "gay people are immoral", since everyone except Jesus is immoral. My concern is "gay people are hurting people, who hurt themselves and others, however praying the gay away is not what is needed, but salvation is needed."

I see your righteous anger at the priests in Pennsylvania. God is waiting, yes, patiently, have you read the verses where Jesus threatened those who harm children in strongest terms He ever used? God "keeps a garden of anger watered, ready" but is patient, hoping all shall repent and trust Jesus for salvation.

Again, you see children as innocent but adults who prey on children as only semi-guilty? The paedophile priests should skip Hell for Heaven?

 

[BilliardsBall]

I don't think I would. In fact---although I'm not certain---I believe elective abortions are prohibited at that stage.

.

Where you draw the line, like me, is where you think a baby, not a foetus, is being killed. I believe your line is subjective, unsure, mine is objective, conception unless life of the mother is in jeopardy. All of us use our subjective moral code somewhere to sin, and need redemption IMHO.

 

[BilliardsBall]

As I said...In your Theocracy it can be anything you want it to be.

I would not want to live in your theocracy or anyone else's theocracy. Perhaps you would want to live in a current theocracy.

Aside from Vatican City, there are no Christian theocracies. I wonder why that is.

A biblical theocracy like ancient Israel's would be amazing! Even Clinton voters would face penalties.

 

[BilliardsBall]

ecco previously

Isn't Thou shalt have no other gods before me offensive to people of other religions?​

You just verified, with a quote from your bible, that Christianity is offensive to non-Christians.

. . . . Yes, and did so ironically. I know the gospel is offensive to those who hate the gospel. Makes sense, doesn't it?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Indentured servitude is not semantic or sugar coating it, but factual, I can direct you to more resources if you want to see for yourself.

That was only some of the slavery in the Bible. It applied to fellow Hebrew males only and even that could be subverted into lifetime slavery with one's children being slaves as well. This is well known. Have you not even read the Bible?

I don't ignore the "beat your slave" portion. I see simple logic--you are focusing on the property bit, which is there, not the crime. If I hit you and you get a black eye, I don't get the death penalty! The servant could strike the master and also not get the death penalty, but is left off the verse because the one people group in the Bible with the most possible capital punishments was slave owners! Serious laws at work here.

Slaves could be beaten to the point where they eventually died. They merely had to linger for a few days. It was still horrific.

 

[Audie]

A biblical theocracy like ancient Israel's would be amazing! Even Clinton voters would face penalties.

Not so amazing. You could visit Syrian and Afghanistan
for lessons on a theocracy with the same toots.

 

[Audie]

. . . . Yes, and did so ironically. I know the gospel is offensive to those who hate the gospel. Makes sense, doesn't it?

We know that you, like so many"theists" show no
sign of scruples about making things up about other
people.