The Creed of The Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica (EGC)

[Octavia156]

The Gnostic Catholic Church (EGC) is the religious arm of the formal Thelemic orgainsiations. Its political and social counterpart is the OTO. The OTO has been discussed on other threads, but none have discussed the EGC in much detail.

I'm not going to go into history of EGC right now, I just want to share with you our Creed.
It is a Gnostic Mass, and like the Christian Mass it begins by the recitation of the Creed.

I was brought up CoE and attending church regularly... as a kid knew the Christian Nicean creed off by heart, but now I can't remember how it goes for it has been replaced with this one:

I believe in one secret and ineffable LORD; and in one Star in the Company of Stars of whose fire we are created, and to which we shall return; and in one Father of Life, Mystery of Mystery, in His name CHAOS, the sole viceregent of the Sun upon the Earth; and in one Air the nourisher of all that breathes.

And I believe in one Earth, the Mother of us all, and in one Womb wherein all men are begotten, and wherein they shall rest, Mystery of Mystery, in Her name BABALON.

And I believe in the Serpent and the Lion, Mystery of Mystery, in His name BAPHOMET.

And I believe in one Gnostic and Catholic Church of Light, Life, Love and Liberty, the Word of whose Law is THELÊMA.

And I believe in the communion of Saints.

And, forasmuch as meat and drink are transmuted in us daily into spiritual substance, I believe in the Miracle of the Mass.

And I confess one Baptism of Wisdom whereby we accomplish the Miracle of Incarnation.

And I confess my life one, individual, and eternal that was, and is, and is to come.

AUMGN. AUMGN. AUMGN.

I love the fact that as a scientist, there is not one thing in this creed that contridicts or conflicts with the facts of nature.

This is how I explain the creed in "child speak"

I believe in the SUN;
I believe in Choas and Air;
I believe in The Earth;
I believe in Duality (Sex);
I believe in Free Will
I believe in DNA. (or the passing of wisdom down through generations)
I believe E=mc^2
I believe in Consciousness
I believe I am.

What do you think of this as a religious creed?

 

[Vinayaka]

What's the debate?

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

I love the fact that as a scientist, there is not one thing in this creed that contridicts or conflicts with the facts of nature.

This is how I explain the creed in "child speak"

I believe in the SUN;
I believe in Choas and Air;
I believe in The Earth;
I believe in Duality (Sex);
I believe in Free Will
I believe in DNA.
I believe E=mc^2
I believe in Consciousness
I believe I am.

What do you think?

I think that there is nothing which cannot be interpreted as consistent with science, and that there is nothing which can be interpreted such that it does not contradict the facts of nature. For example, interpreting "the communion of saints" as a metaphorical reference to DNA, despite the fact
1) There is an actual list of saints identified by name
and
2) Crowley wrote the gnostic mass in 1913, three decades before DNA was even connected to genetics in some sense (i.e., via the discovery of DNA in chromosomes), and wasn't really understood as "genetic code" (a phrase that didn't exist until the 50s, I believe) until a number of other experiments over the next 2 decades or so

seems a bit of a stretch, to say the least. But that's just me.

 

[Octavia156]

I think that there is nothing which cannot be interpreted as consistent with science, and that there is nothing which can be interpreted such that it does not contradict the facts of nature. For example, interpreting "the communion of saints" as a metaphorical reference to DNA, despite the fact
1) There is an actual list of saints identified by name
and
2) Crowley wrote the gnostic mass in 1913, three decades before DNA was even connected to genetics in some sense (i.e., via the discovery of DNA in chromosomes), and wasn't really understood as "genetic code" (a phrase that didn't exist until the 50s, I believe) until a number of other experiments over the next 2 decades or so

seems a bit of a stretch, to say the least. But that's just me.

I agree, the DNA is my interpretation.

The Communion of Saints is essetially the "power" of the the great men (in Crowley's eyes at the time, living, dead or fictionary) being passed down through the generations... either intellectually or genetically. The mutual interdpendence of genetic variation that drive evolution.

Interestingly the serpent and the lion has been a ancient term for the creative force of reproduction... and interestingly the sperm kind of looks like a serpent with a lions head.

One mustn't forget that our ancestors were extremely briilliant thinkers... even before the invetion of the microscope ideas were coming out of the akasha which later proved to be true.

PS I didn't quite get your first sentence - are agreeing or diagreeing that is is a scientifically compatiable creed?


How many of you would feel comfortable reciting this CREED?

I no longer feel comfortable reciting the Nicean Creed - cause I don't believe in what it says... but this creed contradicts nothing in my common sense.

 

[Octavia156]

What's the debate?

Not sure.. I have nowhere on this forum to discuss my religion (no Thelema DIR:sad4, so it was suggested I start discussions here.

I'm just interested in people thoughts on this creed, especially if they've never read it before or knew of its existance.

The EGC is an active church - we hold Masses once a month here in Brighton UK, but they happen bi-weekly in London and all over the US.

As demonstrated here Thelema is a legitimate religion.... with its own church! I'm desperately trying to get a forum place to discuss Thelemic ideas.

 

[Octavia156]

Theses are some beautiful passages from the Gnostic Mass that describe in poetic and literary forms the 3 principle aspects of nature:

Nuit (Space)
Hadit (Existance)
Ra-Hoor-Kuit (Consciousness)


Nuit (Space):

O circle of Stars whereof our Father is but the younger brother, marvel beyond imagination, soul of infinite space, before whom Time is Ashamed, the mind bewildered, and the understanding dark, not unto Thee may we attain, unless Thine image be Love. Therefore by seed and root and stem and bud and leaf and flower and fruit do we invoke Thee.

"Then the priest answered & said unto the Queen of Space, kissing her lovely brows, and the dew of her light bathing his whole body in a sweet-smelling perfume of sweat; O Nuit, continuous one of Heaven, let it be ever thus; that men speak not of thee as One but as None; and let them speak not of thee at all, since thou art continuous!"



Hadit (Existance):

O secret of secrets that art hidden in the being of all that lives, not Thee do we adore, for that which adoreth is also Thou. Thou art That, and That am I.

"I am the flame that burns in every heart of man, and in the core of every star. I am Life, and the giver of Life; yet therefore is the knowledge of me the knowledge of death. "I am alone; there is no God where I am."



Ra-Hoor-Kuit (Consciousness):

Thou that art One, our Lord in the Universe the Sun, our Lord in ourselves whose name is Mystery of Mystery, uttermost being whose radiance enlightening the worlds is also the breath that maketh every God even and Death to tremble before Thee -- By the Sign of Light appear Thou glorious upon the throne of the Sun.

Make open the path of creation and of intelligence between us and our minds. Enlighten our understanding.

Encourage our hearts. Let thy light crystallize itself in our blood, fulfilling us of Resurrection.

 

[Octavia156]

Would you consider contributing to this poll: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/147850-should-rf-have-thelema-dir.html