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The Cuban Missile Crisis revisited

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Cuban missile crisis, 60 years on: new papers reveal how close the world came to nuclear disaster

The commander of a nuclear-armed Soviet submarine panicked and came close to launching a nuclear torpedo during the Cuban missile crisis 60 years ago, after being blinded and disoriented by aggressive US tactics, according to newly translated documents.

Some new information here then and where the following wasn't probably known until now.

In October 1962, the US sent its anti-submarine forces to hunt down Soviet submarines trying to slip through the “quarantine” imposed on Cuba. The most perilous moment came when one of those submarines, B-59, was forced to surface late at night in the Sargasso Sea to recharge its batteries and found itself surrounded by US destroyers and anti-submarine planes circling overhead. In a newly translated account of one of the senior officers on board, Captain Second Class Vasily Arkhipov, described the scene. “Overflights by planes just 20-30 metres above the submarine’s conning tower, use of powerful searchlights, fire from automatic cannons (over 300 shells), dropping depth charges, cutting in front of the submarine by destroyers at a dangerously [small] distance, targeting guns at the submarine,” Arkhipov, the chief of staff of the 69th submarine brigade, recalled.

Given it has been the understanding that the submarine crew responded to practice depth charges and not knowing these from real ones - so some new material - and this ...

In his account, first given in 1997 but published for the first time in English by the National Security Archive at George Washington University, the submarine’s commander, Valentin Savitsky, lost his nerve. Arkhipov said one of the US planes “turned on powerful searchlights and blinded the people on the bridge so that their eyes hurt”. “It was a shock,” he said. “The commander physically could not give any orders, could not even understand what was happening.” The risk was, Arkhipov added: “The commander could have instinctively, without contemplation ordered an ‘emergency dive’; then after submerging, the question whether the plane was shooting at the submarine or around it would not have come up in anybody’s head. That is war.” In his account, Arkhipov played down his role and how close the B-59 submarine commander, Savitsky, came to launching the submarine’s one nuclear-tipped torpedo. However, Svetlana Savranskaya, the director of the National Security Archive’s Russian programmes, interviewed another submarine commander from the same brigade, Ryurik Ketov, who said Savitsky was convinced they were under attack and that the war with the US had started. The commander panicked, calling for an “urgent dive” and for the number one torpedo with the nuclear warhead to be prepared. However, because the signalling officer was in the way, Savitsky could not immediately get down the narrow stairway through the conning tower, and during those few moments of hesitation, Arkhipov realised that the US forces were signalling rather than attacking, and deliberately firing off to the side of the submarine. “He called to Savitsky and said: ‘calm down, look they are signalling, not attacking, let’s signal back.’ Savitsky turned back, saw the situation, ordered the signalling officer to signal back,” Savranskaya said. She added that two other officers would have had to confirm any order from Savitsky before the nuclear torpedo could have been launched. Tom Blanton, the director of the National Security Archive, said the aggressive tactics used by the American submarine hunters contributed to the close shave.

Quite - it takes two to tango, and often both sides are often to blame for whatever happens.

At a conference in Havana in 2002, John Peterson, a lieutenant on the USS Beale, the destroyer closest to the Russian submarine, said he and his crew resented their orders to use only practice depth charges, which just made a loud bang. So they stuffed hand grenades into toilet roll tubes which would hold the pin down for a couple of hundred metres before disintegrating, and causing the grenade to explode next to the submarine’s hull. The Russian signals intelligence officer on the B-59, Vadim Orlov, said the experience was like being inside an oil drum beaten by a sledgehammer. The officers and crew were already exhausted. They had sailed all the way from the Russian far north, in submarines that were not adapted for warm waters. Internal temperatures in the engine compartment rose to up to 65 degrees Celsius, with carbon dioxide levels several times normal, and there was very little drinking water, Arkhipov recalled.

The human touch - so often contributing to catastrophe or saving the day. :oops:

Collina said the danger of disaster would remain as long as nuclear weapons were part of the military equation. “The lesson we should have learned in 1962 is that humans are fallible, and we should not combine crises with fallible humans with nuclear weapons,” Collina said. “Yet here we are again.”

Quite - and not something as to which we humans as a whole get to vote over. So, oh we got it wrong, and we let the few decide whether humans survived or perished. Such an intelligent species? :oops:
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
It seems the right people were in the right positions of authority. Coler heads prevailed.

This is what worries me today. A person like Trump as president is the wrong type of person. An interview with a Russian insider who wrote speaches for putin stated his concern about him as he is getting more and more irrational and emtional due to the war going wrong. So putin could order a use of nuclear weapons, but will cooler heads prevail? It depends who putin put in place for the command structure. Loyalists will likely carry out orders.

We see how some around Trump who were not loyalists, like Comey, were fired and replaced with loyalists. This is dangerous. This is why these kinds of leaders are not fit for office in the nuclear age.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
There was a program 10 years ago on the Cuban Missile Crisis. It seems it was not 100% accurate but it shows the essence of what happened and how very close we came to WWIII.

Having lived through that and having spent days believing I was about to die, I have the strong desire for our being able to take out Putin's nukes before the lunatics there can end the human race. They are to me threatening my life with nuclear blackmail.

And thank God we have Biden as president rather than any MAGA especially the MAGA in chief. This is a time when we really need the adults in charge rather than the pack of whining egotistical thin-skinned snowflakes.

 

PureX

Veteran Member
It seems the right people were in the right positions of authority. Coler heads prevailed.

This is what worries me today. A person like Trump as president is the wrong type of person. An interview with a Russian insider who wrote speaches for putin stated his concern about him as he is getting more and more irrational and emtional due to the war going wrong. So putin could order a use of nuclear weapons, but will cooler heads prevail? It depends who putin put in place for the command structure. Loyalists will likely carry out orders.

We see how some around Trump who were not loyalists, like Comey, were fired and replaced with loyalists. This is dangerous. This is why these kinds of leaders are not fit for office in the nuclear age.
And yet we seem to love them. They are, 'strong, and decisive'. They inspire fear in our 'enemies'. They don't tolerate weakness or disobedience. A lot of people like these traits. They admire these bully-boys as long as they're bullying someone else. In a lot of ways we are still just dumb animals.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
I've probably mentioned this before, but I had only just started work at the time (from school), and the tension was such that it did seem as if nuclear war was a real possibility. There was some kind of deadline as to actions to be taken, and I can remember the relief for all of us when an announcement came over the work's Tannoy as to some agreement happening rather than something worse. Never have ever had such tension since or such public announcements. Still time I suppose. :oops:
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I remember watching the news coverage as the Soviet ships approached the U.S. blockade wondering if this was going to be the end of civilization as we knew it. A block from where I went to high school there was a bomb shelter for sale, so it was pretty difficult times, let me tell ya.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The real drama occurred before the sub surfaced and was spotted by the Americans.

The sub was one of three armed with a nuclear torpedo. It was incommunicado with Moscow, but had been pre-cleared to use what force the officers deemed necessary. The captain thought the war had begun and prepared to launch the torpedo. The political officer concurred, which normally would have sufficed, but, the flotilla commander, Vasily Arkhipov, happened to be aboard, and he vetoed the launch and averted a nuclear disaster.
Soviet submarine officer who averted nuclear war honoured with prize
Vasily Arkhipov - Wikipedia
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It seems the right people were in the right positions of authority. Coler heads prevailed.

This is what worries me today. A person like Trump as president is the wrong type of person. An interview with a Russian insider who wrote speaches for putin stated his concern about him as he is getting more and more irrational and emtional due to the war going wrong. So putin could order a use of nuclear weapons, but will cooler heads prevail? It depends who putin put in place for the command structure. Loyalists will likely carry out orders.

We see how some around Trump who were not loyalists, like Comey, were fired and replaced with loyalists. This is dangerous. This is why these kinds of leaders are not fit for office in the nuclear age.
I daresay Kennedy was more trigger happy and determined, at the time, than Trump would have been, today. The only cool head was Arkhipov.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I daresay Kennedy was more trigger happy and determined, at the time, than Trump would have been, today. The only cool head was Arkhipov.
Nope, as it was Kennedy, against what most of the military advisors recommended to him, that decided to hold off a first-strike initiative. OTOH, Generally Milley was so concerned that Trump might launch a pre-emptive strike that he called the Chinese to tell them that he would not allow him to do that.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Either way Russia was strongly persuaded to turn back and give up its plans for using Cuba for a nuclear base.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Either way Russia was strongly persuaded to turn back and give up its plans for using Cuba for a nuclear base.
Well, there was a deal apparently, about removing the missiles from Cuba in exchange for the US removing missiles from Turkey. Not sure if the latter happened though.
 
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