The Definition Of "libertarian"

[Alceste]

I didn't check for a date.
But I notice you're evading the point.
I've said I am a "liberal", & I posted there.
You say you aren't, but you post there too.
You object to being referred to as a "liberal", which isn't an insult in my book.
So I ask why.
You don't answer.

Because I am a radical leftist. Liberalism is a centrist political philosophy, and neo-liberalism follows a philosophy of economics and trade with which I virulently disagree.

Yes, I have posted in various DIRs in which I don't strictly belong, but it is almost always by accident. When it's on purpose, I'm very careful to put on the appropriate hat for the sake of discussion. That thread is so old I can't remember if it was accidental or on purpose, but the fact remains I am not a liberal.

 

[Revoltingest]

Because I am a radical leftist. Liberalism is a centrist political philosophy, and neo-liberalism follows a philosophy of economics and trade with which I virulently disagree.

Yes, I have posted in various DIRs in which I don't strictly belong, but it is almost always by accident. When it's on purpose, I'm very careful to put on the appropriate hat for the sake of discussion. That thread is so old I can't remember if it was accidental or on purpose, but the fact remains I am not a liberal.

And now I know why I thought you were one.
What is a "radical leftist", & what kind of governmental policies do they (ie, you) advocate?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

What is a "radical leftist", & what kind of governmental policies do they (ie, you) advocate?

Radical ones.

 

[Revoltingest]

Radical ones.

I was asking someone who I'd hoped might actually answer.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

I was asking someone who I'd hoped might actually answer.

I advocate the abolition of private property to eliminate the need for government!

 

[Alceste]

And now I know why I thought you were one.
What is a "radical leftist", & what kind of governmental policies do they (ie, you) advocate?

I'm sure we've been through this already. The wikis on Anarchism, Anarcho-socialism, anarcho-syndicalism, and left libertarianism are all reasonably accurate summaries of my personal political philosophy.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm sure we've been through this already. The wikis on Anarchism, Anarcho-socialism, anarcho-syndicalism, and left libertarianism are all reasonably accurate summaries of my personal political philosophy.

I don't recall your ever elaborating on it.
I'd prefer that you state your beliefs in your own words.
What kind of power would government have to....
- Control the economy
- Control society
- Provide services, eg, health care, roads, housing, food, communication
- Compel service, eg, military draft, "volunteering" as a condition of higher education

I've said before that you aren't a real libertarian (based upon many of your posts & their location).
But I recognize that we all change, & I'm open to your being one....even by my standards.
This isn't about my granting permission to post here or any such foolishness. I have no
authority whatsoever. I don't recall even reporting anyone for being in the wrong forum.
You will do as you will. The RF staff will do what they do. I'm curious, & believe that
such discussion advances everyone's understanding....even if it raises blood pressure for some.

 

[Revoltingest]

I advocate the abolition of private property to eliminate the need for government!

Who would abolish (enforce) it?
What would the process be?
What would we be allowed to own?
Would people be able to start businesses & hire people?

 

[Iti oj]

What government? It's self rule. The people. The v people the people. It's simple

 

[Iti oj]

Fyi I do believe in private property to an extent.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Fyi I do believe in private property to an extent.

I do believe people should have personal property, personal property is something different from private property

 

[Alceste]

I don't recall your ever elaborating on it.
I'd prefer that you state your beliefs in your own words.
What kind of power would government have to....
- Control the economy
- Control society
- Provide services, eg, health care, roads, housing, food, communication
- Compel service, eg, military draft, "volunteering" as a condition of higher education

I've said before that you aren't a real libertarian (based upon many of your posts & their location).
But I recognize that we all change, & I'm open to your being one....even by my standards.
This isn't about my granting permission to post here or any such foolishness. I have no
authority whatsoever. I don't recall even reporting anyone for being in the wrong forum.
You will do as you will. The RF staff will do what they do. I'm curious, & believe that
such discussion advances everyone's understanding....even if it raises blood pressure for some.

If you're going to continue to choose not to read my posts, there is no incentive for me to keep covering the same ground again and again. I feel like you are purposefully wasting my time, and have no intention of understanding my political philosophy. If such an intention existed, surely you would have read one of my dozens of posts over the course of my time on RF, including this thread, explaining my political philosophy.

If you can find a six year old, totally irrelevant post to try to support your silly assertion that I'm a liberal, you can surely find a post of mine from this very thread that explains my actual opinion.

 

[Alceste]

What government? It's self rule. The people. The v people the people. It's simple

Exactly. The question "to what extent do anarchists believe the government should interfere with their lives and the lives of others" doesn't even make sense.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you're going to continue to choose not to read my posts, there is no incentive for me to keep covering the same ground again and again. I feel like you are purposefully wasting my time, and have no intention of understanding my political philosophy. If such an intention existed, surely you would have read one of my dozens of posts over the course of my time on RF, including this thread, explaining my political philosophy.

Wasting your time is not my motive.
I don't have the sense that I understand your beliefs well.
But if you don't want to answer, I'll not ask.

If you can find a six year old, totally irrelevant post to try to support your silly assertion that I'm a liberal, you can surely find a post of mine from this very thread that explains my actual opinion.

You misunderstand. You thought my claim that you're a liberal wasn't supported.
I only sought to illustrate why I thought so. If you're not one, then you're not.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Exactly. The question "to what extent do anarchists believe the government should interfere with their lives and the lives of others" doesn't even make sense.

So who would control the economy? The people would, not the government

So who would control society? The people

Who would provide services such as health care, roads, housing and food? The people.

That is freedom, that is liberty.

 

[Revoltingest]

What government? It's self rule. The people. The v people the people. It's simple

It's not so simple, because I envision the possibility of different power structures.
Examples illustrate a system more than short descriptions.
Suppose....
I started a manufacturing company, bought tools, bought a factory, hired workers, & sold my products.
What control over me would a government have?
If there's no government, then whom might I watch out for?

 

[Revoltingest]

So who would control the economy? The people would, not the government
So who would control society? The people
Who would provide services such as health care, roads, housing and food? The people.
That is freedom, that is liberty.

"The people" can exercise power by many different means.
Would there be a national government?
Would government be more local?
Would they be elected?
Or would it be mob rule, ie, more spontaneous / ad hoc?
Are there examples of such a system you envision?

 

[Alceste]

So who would control the economy? The people would, not the government

So who would control society? The people

Who would provide services such as health care, roads, housing and food? The people.

That is freedom, that is liberty.

Exactly. I am not convinced that "governing" us requires funding or full time staff at all, but to the extent that certain of our collective concerns need to be addressed (roads, schools, water, medicine, etc) I think the cooperative efforts of the affected communities can supply them most efficiently. (As opposed to private, for-profit models or charity.)

 

[Revoltingest]

Exactly. The question "to what extent do anarchists believe the government should interfere with their lives and the lives of others" doesn't even make sense.

Does this mean I could start a real estate company, buy land, hire workers, erect
buildings, rent them out to tenants, & make a profit? Would anyone be able to control
or even stop me?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Are there examples of such a system you envision?

Yes there is!